[Tj3]

Who was first?

God.

[N0help4u]

I'd be interested in hearing how you apply your own interpretation to these verse to make them say that there are many ways to be saved other than Jesus.

John 14:6
6 Jesus said to him, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.
NKJV

Acts 4:12
12 Nor is there salvation in any other, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved."
NKJV

And a whole lot more!

[Wondergirl]

God.

He was the first to translate the Bible into something accessible to the common man?

[Wondergirl]

Luther was not first because he wanted reform from what was first.

Luther was the first to take the power of interpretation away from the RCC by making the Bible accessible to the common man.

[Tj3]

He was the first to translate the Bible into something accessible to the common man?

You think that he gave the Bible in a language other than Hebrew to the Hebrews?

[Tj3]

Luther was the first to take the power of interpretation away from the RCC and to make the Bible accessible to the common man.

Sorry to tell you this, but the RCC never had the power of interpretation. They only claimed they did.

[Wondergirl]

Sorry to tell you this, but the RCC never had the power of interpretation. they only claimed they did.

Yes, they did. The common man was in thrall to the church for interpretation.

[N0help4u]

If you believe with your heart and believe with your mouth.

No one can come to the Father except through Jesus
10He was in the world, and though the world was made through him, the world did not recognize him. 11He came to that which was his own, but his own did not receive him. 12Yet to all who received him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God— 13children born not of natural descent,[c] nor of human decision or a husband's will, but born of God.

Matt 7:27 And then I will confess unto them that I never aknew them; and they shall bdepart into ceverlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels.


You will know them by their fruits

What do you do with those verses??

If God accepts people who reject him into his kingdom then Jesus died for NO reason.

[N0help4u]

Luther was the first to take the power of interpretation away from the RCC by making the Bible accessible to the common man.

So then why do you not believe what these verses say and mean then?

[Tj3]

Yes, they did. The common man was in thrall to the church for interpretation.

They claimed authority that was never theirs.

If you claim that they legitimately had that authority, you'd have to show me where. But nonetheless, even if that were true, Luther was not the first. I mentioned Wyfliffe, and though you may not be aware, he was ahead of Luther by 200+ years. And there were others.

[DrJ]

I don't know how you came to that conclusion. If I wrote a book, and preserves the copyright and the original manuscript, that would not mean that I would be removing freewill from the whole world, so I am not sure how you extrapolated that to be the case with the Bible.

Why is it such a problem that it should have been so perfectly preserved?

If the evidence showed that it wasn't, then you would say - see it was corrupted, but since we have evidence that it was perfectly preserved, you are trying to argue that to be a problem. Seems to me that you just don't like the Bible - PERIOD.

God inspired Man. Man wrote the books. The books were collected over time. Centuries later, they were put into one book: The Bible. After Jesus, God never presented Himself to another man. What makes you think that God himself put the Bible together?

And where is this evidence that it was perfectly preserved??

Ah, now the ad hominem arguments.

Don't make silly claims and you won't get silly responses.

You may find this enlightening.

Ancient NT Manuscripts

Even if I were to look past the fact that you are using some free, geocities website (that anyone could have put together and typed anything into without a penny from their pocket) to try and PROVE anything to me, this website itself admits that the OLDEST version of the completed NT dates back to 325AD - 350 AD. So what is it that you are trying to say?


NOWHERE in the Bible does it list off WHO and WHAT would placed into God's Word. It was not until 300 years after the death of Jesus that all these books were assembled... but who said what goes and what stays??

Obviously God did not... because nowhere in the Bible does it state what books are to be in the Bible. So, if you claim that God said which books go and which books stay, you are saying that there is SOMETHING ELSE that is the Word of God... this something is what told whoever to put the Bible together as it is today.

Either that or God, Himself, came down with a Bible to deliver to the world.. which again, will go against the Bible itself and implode your entire theory.

[Wondergirl]

You think that he gave the Bible in a language other than Hebrew to the Hebrews?

God used Luther to translate the entire Bible into German in a six-part edition in 1534. Before than only educated churchmen could read it (in Hebrew, Greek, and Latin).

[N0help4u]

I think we are going off track with Luther and who interpreted the Bible.
Four or five of us have asked WG why she believes all go to heaven when the Bible clearly states otherwise. We have yet to hear the explanation of her interpretation of the verses Tj and I asked about.

[N0help4u]

God used Luther to translate the entire Bible into German in a six-part edition in 1534. Before than only educated churchmen could read it (in Hebrew, Greek, and Latin).

All the stuff about the origins of the Bible is side tracking HOW do you interpret the verses that Tj3, me and Donn asked you?

You claimed I wasn't answering you on that last post whenever I did answer you but you are totally avoiding the question here.

[tickle]

God used Luther to translate the entire Bible into German in a six-part edition in 1534. Before than only educated churchmen could read it (in Hebrew, Greek, and Latin).

Yes, of course, that's when the printing press was invented !

Tick

[Tj3]

God inspired Man. Man wrote the books. The books were collected over time. Centuries later, they were put into one book: The Bible. After Jesus, God never presented Himself to another man. What makes you think that God himself put the Bible together?

You seem to have a very low view of God.

And where is this evidence that it was perfectly preserved??

Why don't you start by looking at a comparison for the Dead Sea scrolls to what we have today.

Even if I were to look past the fact that you are using some free, geocities website (that anyone could have put together and typed anything into without a penny from their pocket) to try and PROVE anything to me, this website itself admits that the OLDEST version of the completed NT dates back to 325AD - 350 AD. So what is it that you are trying to say?

Ho hum - so you read one line and missed everything else. Pretty myopic vision I'd say - have you seen an optometrist? :p

NOWHERE in the Bible does it list off WHO and WHAT would placed into God's Word. It was not until 300 years after the death of Jesus that all these books were assembled... but who said what goes and what stays??

Actually, there are many books in the Bible identified by other books in the Bible as scripture, for example the writings of Paul are scripture:

2 Peter 3:14-17
14 Therefore, beloved, looking forward to these things, be diligent to be found by Him in peace, without spot and blameless; 15 and account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation--as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given to him, has written to you, 16 as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which untaught and unstable people twist to their own destruction, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures.
NKJV

You really need to take more time at doing your research before coming on here making unvalidated claims (and I have yet to see you validate a single claim).

[Wondergirl]

They claimed authority that was never theirs.

If you claim that they legitimately had that authority, you'd have to show me where. But nonetheless, even if that were true, Luther was not the first. I mentioned Wyfliffe, and though you may not be aware, he was ahead of Luther by 200+ years. And there were others.

They didn't know that.

I'll give you this: "Wycliffe was also an early advocate for translation of the Bible in the common tongue. He completed his translation directly from the Vulgate into vernacular English in the year 1382, now known as the Wycliffe Bible."

150 years.

[Tj3]

God used Luther to translate the entire Bible into German in a six-part edition in 1534. Before than only educated churchmen could read it (in Hebrew, Greek, and Latin).

And it was translated into many languages centuries before that. Wycliffe translated it into English in more recent times before Luther.

So what? Do you focus your worship on God or on Luther?

As Nohelp4u said, why don't you address the verses that I posted earlier rather than keep going down this rathole with inordinate focus on one man.

[Tj3]

They didn't know that.

I'll give you this: "Wycliffe was also an early advocate for translation of the Bible in the common tongue. He completed his translation directly from the Vulgate into vernacular English in the year 1382, now known as the Wycliffe Bible."

150 years.

Apparently YOU didn't know it.

How about addressing those verses that I posted earlier?

[Wondergirl]

yes, of course, thats when the printing press was invented !

tick

Nifty coincidence, doncha think?