[Alty]

Blessed are the peacemakers, and you are a peacemaker. Blessings.

Thanks for saying that, but not really. I will be the first to admit that I am usually the first to jump into a fight. It's a human trait, one that we all possess, one that I'm trying very hard to change.

I know I'm right and so does he, or he would have answered me.

I'm just trying to point out that statements like these are what brings on a fight. If this comment was directed at you, you would also defend yourself, isn't that true?

This board is here to discuss religion, our beliefs.

Actually, no, this board is to discuss all views on religion, whether you believe or not. This board was actually started for atheists and the like, so that they too would have a place to go to discuss what they believe in.

The Christianity board is better suited for discussing your beliefs with like minded people. Less chance of arguments there, because everyone that goes to that forum is a Christian and does believe.

Quoting the bible and such will not make non-believers believe, it isn't fact, it's a man written book that Christians and other religions use to boost their faith. That's fine, and your right, but not everyone feels the same way.

For some they only believe what they can see, and since we cannot see God, well, those people choose to not believe. Science does explain allot, wereas the bible does not. Hell fire and brimstone, the end of the world if we don't obey. To some, that's not a very savory outcome. Others have had religion forced upon them all their lives, is it any wonder that they chose a different path?

I don't know if I'm explaining myself well. I do know my beliefs, and that's fine with me, I don't need anyone else to believe what I do, nor do I need confirmation of my beliefs, they are what they are.

I'm just wondering, not accusing, but wondering, why do you continue to try to prove God, or to ask for evidence that he doesn't exist? Are you trying to confirm your own beliefs?

Tsila, I will back down now, just had to comment on a few things. See, I told you I'm not a peacemaker.;) I'm just trying to point out a few truths, the way I see it, not necessarily the way it actually is. I wish you luck, and hope it all works out in the end.

Peace.

[Credendovidis]

With all respect tsila1777 : you continue making claims about me for which you have not one single iota of supporting evidence. Please stop doing so. I suggest you continue with your topic instead of posting adaptations of the truth involving me. You seem to lack the decency to support your personal attacks with evidence, even after clear refutations from my side. I will keep reacting to your attacks involving me.

What I was trying to do was get Cred to answer me, which he could not do, because he knows I used his own ‘beliefs’ to prove him wrong.

Incorrect : I already told you that I did not reply to you for entire other reasons. And you CONTINUE to post the same wild claim without support, regardless of my refutation and explanation.

Cred can do or say whatever he pleases except tell me what to say on this board.

I never told you what to say on this board. I told you that what you believe is not the same as reality. If may feel that way, but to be that, you have to prove that. Ergo the suggestion to precede claim with "I believe" is valid.

His (Cred) nonsense is boring and foolish.

That line is an insult, which is against the board rules.

I do not care to discuss anything with him anymore because he is void of understanding and twists everything until it does not even resemble what the poster actually said, and then he makes unintelligent replies to his own mangled interpretation; which I will not even bother reading anymore.

Incorrect : I am not void of understanding. Your statement is a wild unsupported claim.
I already told you that I did not reply to you for entire other reasons. And you CONTINUE to post the same wild claim without support, regardless of my refutation and explanation.

As someone said, this is a religious discussion board, not a “prove it” board.

Whatever discussion board this is, I did not ask you to prove whatever you believe. I suggest to precede every unsupported religious claim with "I believe that", or - alternatively - to support each wild claim. My approach is not against your personal beliefs : from me you may believe whatever you want.

God’s Word is all the proof I need, if anyone needs more proof, than they should go look for it. God’s Word is final authority in my life. The Word of God says and as for as I am concerned that makes it a fact.

It is not about whatever is good enough for you. It is about religious claims to be posted as if these claims are factual - for which no evidence exists.

:)

·

[tsila1777]

Thanks for saying that, but not really. I will be the first to admit that I am usually the first to jump into a fight. It's a human trait, one that we all possess, one that I'm trying very hard to change.

I'm just trying to point out that statements like these are what brings on a fight. If this comment was directed at you, you would also defend yourself, isn't that true?


Actually, no, this board is to discuss all views on religion, whether you believe or not. This board was actually started for atheists and the like, so that they too would have a place to go to discuss what they believe in.

I did not mean Christian beliefs, I meant 'our' beliefs…all religion is based on belief…isn't it?

The Christianity board is better suited for discussing your beliefs with like minded people. Less chance of arguements there, because everyone that goes to that forum is a Christian and does believe.


Are you suggesting I am not welcome here? I didn't come here to argue, I came here to discuss beliefs.


Quoting the bible and such will not make non-believers believe, it isn't fact, it's a man written book that Christians and other religions use to boost their faith. That's fine, and your right, but not everyone feels the same way.


Actually, 'I believe' the gospel is what has brought many to Christ…but I guess you're right, not on this board.


For some they only believe what they can see, and since we cannot see God, well, those people choose to not believe. Science does explain allot, wereas the bible does not. Hell fire and brimstone, the end of the world if we don't obey. To some, that's not a very savory outcome. Others have had religion forced upon them all their lives, is it any wonder that they chose a different path?

They are free to choose.

I don't know if I'm explaining myself well. I do know my beliefs, and that's fine with me, I don't need anyone else to believe what I do, nor do I need confirmation of my beliefs, they are what they are.

I'm just wondering, not accusing, but wondering, why do you continue to try to prove God, or to ask for evidence that he doesn't exist? Are you trying to confirm your own beliefs?

No, and we do not seem to be communication very well. How am I trying to prove God? I thought this was a religious board. If I am asked to prove that God does exist, then why can't I ask that person to prove He doesn't?

Tsila, I will back down now, just had to comment on a few things. See, I told you I'm not a peacemaker.;) I'm just trying to point out a few truths, the way I see it, not necessarily the way it actually is. I wish you luck, and hope it all works out in the end.

Peace.

It's not the first time I was wrong about a person. And I know it will all work out well in the end….

[tsila1777]

Exactly I have said so many times in so many ways ---
Notice at the top off the page it says Religious Discussions
Of course that is what we believe this IS a religious discussion board where Christians say WHAT they believe. It is not the FACT board, it is not the ''prove it'' board, it is not the science board, it is not the atheist board it IS the religious board
Religion isn't a topic for "argument" - to prove wrong or right, but to openly discuss.
So yes anything we say is our claim.

RELIGION = Believe IN, believe, belief
Get it yet?????

and he continues to insist that we always start out with "I believe.....''

I think I have been asked to leave and go to the Christian board where it is better suited to my beliefs. Do you think if I started my own discussion, I would be welcome... oh wait... nevermind.

[Alty]

Tsila, you are correct, it is belief, I never argued that. It's what we believe in, or rather, why we believe that I was trying to discuss.

Of course your are welcome here, but your comment on another post made it sound like you believed only Christians were welcome here, that's not the case and simply what I was trying to explain. Posting here on the religious discussion board leaves you open to everyone and their beliefs, therefore, of course, you will get people who do not believe in God, or who do not believe in the bible, religion etc. I was stating that if you don't want to listen to posts about God not existing then the Christianity board is a better place to go to.

How are you trying to prove God? Do I really need to answer that? By saying things like, I'm right, you're wrong, that's how. It's almost like poking someone and then running away and saying na, na, na, boo, boo, I win, you can't catch me. The only difference, you aren't running, nor should you if you wish to stand up for your beliefs, but you still have to accept that many will not change their minds.

You are correct, God cannot be proven or disproven, that's why believing in God is all about belief and faith, not everyone has that faith, for whatever reason, and they do want proof or seek proof of his existence. It's not your job to prove that God exists, neither is it anyone else's job to prove he doesn't.

Really, I don't want to fight with you, just stating my opinion and what I believe, that's all. I guess I'm not doing a very good job of that if you keep quoting me to state where I'm wrong.

Good luck to you, I won't come back to this thread, I'll leave you to your discussion.

[Alty]

I think I have been asked to leave and go to the Christian board where it is better suited to my beliefs. Do you think if I started my own discussion, I would be welcome... oh wait... nevermind.

Okay, now I'm getting upset. I promised I wouldn't come back but this post made that impossible.

I never, ever asked you to leave and go the Christian board, this is what I said;

The Christianity board is better suited for discussing your beliefs with like minded people. Less chance of arguments there, because everyone that goes to that forum is a Christian and does believe.

It's comments like this that make me think you want a fight. I really honestly tried my best to get through, but I guess that's not going to happen.

If you continue misreading what every one says and putting your own spin on it then of course you are going to get an argument. I know I don't like to be misquoted, I doubt anyone else does either.

There goes my attempt to discuss things rationally. Darnit, and I was doing so well. :(

[Unknown008]

Oh Alty! Cheer up dear! Tsila is only trying to share his views and also receive feedbacks.

Oh, just a slight thing... the bible may have been written by men, but (all that follows is my belief, be careful!! ) I think that God wrote through them. Don't you find it extraordinary how different books of the bible were written from different times and different places, and yet, go in perfect accordance? That is one of the reasons for my belief in Christ.

[N0help4u]

Yeah I don't believe Tsila is wanting to cause problems just may not know how to take you.

[Credendovidis]

... the bible may have been written by men, but (all that follows is my belief, be careful!!!) i think that God wrote through them. Don't you find it extraordinary how different books of the bible were written from different times and different places, and yet, go in perfect accordance?

"in perfect accordance"? The Bible seems more to be one big collection of mistakes, faults, and contradictions. And all of these - accordingly to what you believe - by a deity that is omniscient, supra-natural, and perfect.

So either God's guidance was extremely poor , or God did not check if his words were recorded properly (in both cases neither a perfect nor an omniscient deity).

===

... I don't believe Tsila is wanting to cause problems ...

Another belief for which the real actions tell another story...

:D

·

[tsila1777]

Okay, now I'm getting upset. I promised I wouldn't come back but this post made that impossible.

I never, ever asked you to leave and go the Christian board, this is what I said;
Quote:
The Christianity board is better suited for discussing your beliefs with like minded people. Less chance of arguments there, because everyone that goes to that forum is a Christian and does believe.
Ok maybe I took this suggestion the wrong way, but it was a suggestion wasn't it? And yes, it did hurt my feelings, and if I didn't care about your opinion, it would not have hurt me. Cred cannot hurt me. But I respected you, and your comments.

The written word often comes across as harsh, and I feel you have said many harsh things to me, and I ignored some, but it kept getting worse, to where you questioned my belief. So, being human, I responded.

Obviously, I have misunderstood some of your posts. Perhaps, you have misunderstood some of mine. Is that possible?

My 'feud' with Cred was pointless, we are miles apart and he did not come here to 'discuss' the topic, he came to mock and I did get caught up in that. It got ridiculous on both our parts. And others were drawn into it. Including you, and it seemed to me, that you were taking his side against me…. That is the best way I know how to describe it, perhaps not the correct way. Bare with me…..


Why do you continue to try to prove God, or to ask for evidence that he doesn't exist? Are you trying to confirm your own beliefs?

I think I answered this. Cred has been asking for proof of God for 8 years, why can't I ask him for proof? My purpose, the point of this was to show him that both are impossible, so why can we not just get past this and have a discussion. For 8 years he has asked that question…(Is he trying to prove his unbelief?)

Why is it if I ask the same question from him, you suggest I need to confirm my belief. By you asking me this question, it is as if you are suggesting I do not really believe…that is not at all what I am doing. Is it possible that I put a spin on this alsp and misunderstood what you were saying here?

I honestly have never deliberately put a spin on anything anyone has said on here, I answered according to what I thought was being said or inferred.

Of course your are welcome here, but your comment on another post made it sound like you believed only Christians were welcome here,

I explained that, when I said 'our', I did not mean 'just Christians' I mean 'a place to discuss our religious beliefs'. If someone does not believe in God, then is that not still a 'belief'? That is a serious question.

How are you trying to prove God? Do I really need to answer that? By saying things like, I'm right, you're wrong, that's how.

The thing I was talking about being right about was a post in which I responded to Cred and he took the first few lines to attack me and ignored the rest. I was right that he would not respond to this particular post and he knows it.

This is the post that Cred continued to ignore except for the first few lines, he wrote.
C: Pascal provided with his wager the logical conclusion………….

Me:Pascal himself ….and concluded that if any faith is correct, it would be the Christian faith.

C:Theism, you and all your theist peers can not provide any objective supported evidence towards the existence of their deity.

Me:Theistic evolution …they hold that religious teachings about creation and scientific theories of evolution need not be contradictory.

He kept asking for proof, and his own 'proof against' showed just as much 'proof for' in my opinion. But he never would respond or discuss these things. This is the 'I'm right and he knows it' part, the fact that he would not respond. Not that my belief was right and his wrong, which of course I do believe…otherwise I would believe what he does…Of course I believe I am right…but that wasn't was I was talking about in this.

I will apologize to you for anything I have said that seemed harsh or unkind to you. I seriously do not want to be at odds with you. I would like to think my first impression of you was correct. If I may, I would like to write to you in a private message and explain something to you about me. If it will stay personal and private; would that be OK?

[tsila1777]

Yeah I don't believe Tsila is wanting to cause problems just may not know how to take you.

Thanks for your support, :)and you are most certainly correct. I do not want to cause problems, and I don't want others to come here for the purpose of causing problems.

Everyone is allowed to believe what he or she wants to believe. But this is a discussion board, not a ‘this is not true’ board. If one believes something is not true, they should discuss it, not simply state as fact that it is not true, but give reasons why they believe it is not true.

Or am I mistaken on this?

[tsila1777]

[quote=Unknown008]Oh Alty! Cheer up dear! Tsila is only trying to share his views and also receive feedbacks.

Oh, just a slight thing... the bible may have been written by men, but (all that follows is my belief, be careful!! ) I think that God wrote through them. Don't you find it extraordinary how different books of the bible were written from different times and different places, and yet, go in perfect accordance? That is one of the reasons for my belief in Christ.[/quote]

That is also my reason for my belief in Christ.

True, I am trying to share my beliefs, and my beliefs are based on the Bible, which is the uncompromising Word of God. So why should I not be allowed to post Scripture?

Anyone can read the Bible and find parts that ‘seem’ to be compromised, but if they study it closely, they will find it does not contradict Itself. Having the wisdom of God and the Holy Spirit also helps one to understand the true meaning of the Word.


There is a Scripture that states, Judus hanged himself.

There is another Scripture that states, Jesus said, “go and do thou likewise”

But these two Scriptures have nothing to do with each other.

God would not allow His Word to be corrupted. There are many translations, and many words have many different translations. However, word searches and intense study will reveal the truth. I believe God’s Word is absolute Truth. That is my belief and that is all I can post here. If it offenses someone, well……………They can post their beliefs and post why they believe it, and what they base their beliefs on.

Blessings to you.

[NeedKarma]

They can post their beliefs and post why they believe it, and what they base their beliefs on.

Cool. Based on the Church of the Flying Spagetti Monster here are some things that I try to follow:

The Eight "I'd Really Rather You Didn'ts"

1. I'd really rather you didn't act like a sanctimonious holier-than-thou when describing my noodly goodness. If some people don't believe in me, that's okay. Really, I'm not that vain. Besides, this isn't about them so don't change the subject.

2. I'd really rather you didn't use my existence as a means to oppress, subjugate, punish, eviscerate, and/or, you know, be mean to others. I don't require sacrifices, and purity is for drinking water, not people.

3. I'd really rather you didn't judge people for the way they look, or how they dress, or the way they talk, or, well, just play nice, okay? Oh, and get this into your thick heads: woman = person. man = person. Samey = Samey. One is not better than the other, unless we're talking about fashion and I'm sorry, but I gave that to women and some guys who know the difference between teal and fuchsia.

4. I'd really rather you didn't indulge in conduct that offends yourself, or your willing, consenting partner of legal age AND mental maturity. As for anyone who might object, I think the expression is "go screw yourself," unless they find that offensive in which case they can turn off the TV for once and go for a walk for a change.

5. I'd really rather you didn't challenge the bigoted, misogynistic, hateful ideas of others on an empty stomach. Eat, then go after the buggers.

6. I'd really rather you didn't build multi million-dollar synagogues / churches / temples / mosques / shrines to my noodly goodness when the money could be better spent (take your pick):
1. Ending poverty
2. Curing diseases
3. Living in peace, loving with passion, and lowering the cost of cable
I might be a complex-carbohydrate omniscient being, but I enjoy the simple things in life. I ought to know. I AM the creator.

7. I'd really rather you didn't go around telling people I talk to you. You're not that interesting. Get over yourself. And I told you to love your fellow man, can't you take a hint?

8. I'd really rather you didn't do unto others as you would have them do unto you if you are into, um, stuff that uses a lot of leather/lubricant/vaseline. If the other person is into it, however (pursuant to #4), then have at it, take pictures, and for the love of Mike, wear a CONDOM! Honestly, it's a piece of rubber. If I didn't want it to feel good when you did it I would have added spikes, or something.

[tsila1777]

Yes, this is what I'm talking about...

[NeedKarma]

[Alty]

NK, thanks for lightening the mood, I think we all needed that.

Tsila, it is clear that both of us misunderstood each other, for that I apologize. It's sometimes very hard to type what you want to say and have it be understood, the tone of voice, facial expressions, they are a large part of communication, and not available here.

I respect everyone's right to believe what they want to believe, even if it's not believing in God. I am trying to voice my beliefs, which of course are not the same as a Christians beliefs, please try to respect that, I've had 37 years of life that lead to my beliefs, they will not be changed, this I know.

The religious discussion board is a place to discuss all aspects of religion, even not believing in religion, so let's all try to express our differences respectfully. I'm sorry I got mad, I really am working on not allowing my anger to take over. NoHelp, you know me, I'm a loud mouth German, and that part of me often escapes, haven't gotten a handle on her yet. ;)

Now, to keep things light, a little bit of my childhood, and yes, my parents always meant this as a joke;

My mom and dad always said that there were more then 10 commandments, there where actually 11 but the last one was dismissed. So, what is the 11th commandment? Never get caught. ;)

Remember, it's a joke. :)

[NeedKarma]

NK, thanks for lightening the mood, I think we all needed that.

It wasn't a joke - those are things that I believe in.

[Alty]

It wasn't a joke - those are things that I believe in.

And they are good rules to follow. It was the spaghetti monster part that made me giggle. :)

[NeedKarma]

Oh yea that... :) It's just a means to an end.

[Smoked]

God is sovereign...

I read 18 pages and I haven't seen one new argument that hasn't been broached regarding this topic.

Christians have their faith and the Non believes have their... You guessed it "faith". Because it all boils down to what you believe. I can rant about people going to hell, I can be holier then thow, I can try to push some unintentional agenda but its not the point.

For me it's a very simple truth. Something I had mentioned many months ago. If I am wrong then I had nothing to loose. Nothing... If I die tomorrow and it was all some sick joked history played on humanity then it is what it is. (not what I believe but you get the point). If I am right then I will enter the kingdom of heaven. Now how does it effect how I live? I am called to spread the word. Does that mean people, man, humanity will except the word? No...

I will live my life as a model and strive to be more christ"like". Do I think Christians are perfect? No.. Never will be.. Never will we have sinless perfection.

God sent his only son to die on the cross to pay for our sins. Why? Because in the old testament the rule laid out for man to follow were so rigid that they could not be satisfied. Jesus was sacrificed to pay the bounty for all man. Now, there is only one way to the father... That is believing the that jesus died for our sins and excepting him into your heart.

Jesus died for everyone.. All it requires is faith. Unfortunately though if you don't believe and repent you have no salvation.