[speechlesstx]

It's almost like you're still in high school. :)

And for you I'm guessing AMHD is just like reality. :D

[speechlesstx]

well speech....not that my vote matters much...but I think you are smart, witty and politically correct and I enjoy all your posts...(yes, i'm a fan ;) ) I haven't found one single thing you have ever said that i disagreed with. (course...i'm not admin's pet:mad:)...BUT!!!! i'm darn fun, cute and sweet in the real world :cool:.....go speechy!

Thanks Tessy, and you sure are darn fun. ;)

[arcura]

rachie,
Back to the topic.
Yes there are a lot of hypocrites in various Churches if not all of them.
Yes, there are a lot of people who hate in most of not all of them.
The most important part of this is that you and I should not be numbered with them.
We and others should be Jesus like and love everyone and only hate the sins.
Many people do not realize that Jesus taught by both word and example.
We should all try to follow his words AND the examples He set.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

[jakester]

rachie -

I want to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that your observations on religious people are carefully construed.

First off, judgementalness—if by that you mean a condemning attitude—is a cancer in its own right and stems from a heart that is devoid of perspective. It's one thing to wave the finger at people and condemn them with an attitude of superiority... "I cannot believe he/she would do such a thing because I would never do that." To such a person, the reality is that if a person were to be put in situation with the right conditions, he or she would fall to temptation. So, with respect to dealing with others we have to have an attitude of compassion and mercy.

Secondly, I would want to clarify something important, though. I have heard people say that to make moral judgments about people's behavior is akin to judging in the way that Jesus said not to do. That is a misconception. Take your post, for example. In your post, you made a moral assessment of Christians and judged that they were hypocrites. Well, if you or I are forbidden to make moral judgements of people's behavior, then you would be wrong for posting what you did. But common sense tells us that we have to make moral judgments in our lives all of the time. If you have children, won't you have to teach them what is right and wrong? How could you accomplish such a thing without making moral judgements? It's impossible not to and moreover, it's commonsensical to do.

Jesus made moral judgments against the Pharisees and warned them of their hypocrisy. He encouraged his followers to repent of their sin and believe in him for he was going to die for their sins. Over and over again, he made public his desire for people to obey God and trust in his mercy and forgiveness for their sins. But when he did that, he did it in a spirit of mercy and compassion. With others, he was extremely firm and sober in his tone. We ought to follow his example.

Lastly, we have to be able to rightly identify the things in life that are good and evil. We accomplish this by understanding the nature of both good and evil. If we point to Jesus as our reference for handling these controversial issues we must accept how it was he dealt with it. It is never right to pretend that evil is anything but evil. We must be both brutally honest with ourselves about our own evil tendencies as well as those we see in others. But we need not be police offers about it. As we relate to others, we are going to find at times a need to confront others with the truth as well as to be confronted by the truth ourselves. Rachie, you at times in your life have found yourself to be hypocritical. I have as well. So it stands to reason that if you have found yourself to be a hypocrite at points in your life, you can understand how others can as well. We are not people who always do what is right even when we may be people who have a strong moral vision. This is why God's mercy is so needed because "...all have fallen short of the glory of God."

[classyT]

Jake,

I heard once that years ago when people were asked their favorite verse in the Bible the majority would quote John 3:16 and NOW if asked the same question the verse that is quoted is the words of the Lord Jesus to the Jewish people. Judge not lest ye be judged. Interesting don't you think? You are correct in saying we should never pretend evil is NOT evil.

I don't know... correct me if you think I am out of line or not biblically correct. But as a Christian I don't stand in judgement of the world ( that is those without Christ) as a Christian I believe we are told to judge ourselves so we are NOT judged. That is what Paul says anyway in his letter to the Corinthians. He even goes on to say ( I think in thess.) that if anyone who calls himself a brother but does not follow what Paul taught.. not to even EAT with the person. So there does seem to be some judgement would be a Godly thing. The Lord called a spade a spade. That verse in Mathew 7 is taken WAAAY out of context... that is just my two cents.

[classyT]

Jake,

I heard once that years ago when people were asked their favorite verse in the Bible the majority would quote John 3:16 and NOW if asked the same question the verse that is quoted is the words of the Lord Jesus to the Jewish people. Judge not lest ye be judged. interesting don't ya think? You are correct in saying we should never pretend evil is NOT evil.

I don't know...correct me if you think I am out of line or not biblically correct. But as a Christian I don't stand in judgement of the world ( that is those without Christ) as a Christian I believe we are told to judge ourselves so we are NOT judged. That is what Paul says anyway in his letter to the Corinthians. He even goes on to say ( i think in thess.) that if anyone who calls himself a brother but does not follow what Paul taught..not to even EAT with the person. So there does seem to be some judgement would be a Godly thing. The Lord called a spade a spade. That verse in Mathew 7 is taken WAAAY outta context...that is just my two cents.

One final note... that is NOT to say I run around judging Christians... because I don't. I think we are to us some discernment.. that is all.

[jakester]

Jake,

I heard once that years ago when people were asked their favorite verse in the Bible the majority would quote John 3:16 and NOW if asked the same question the verse that is quoted is the words of the Lord Jesus to the Jewish people. Judge not lest ye be judged. interesting don't ya think? You are correct in saying we should never pretend evil is NOT evil.

I don't know...correct me if you think I am out of line or not biblically correct. But as a Christian I don't stand in judgement of the world ( that is those without Christ) as a Christian I believe we are told to judge ourselves so we are NOT judged. That is what Paul says anyway in his letter to the Corinthians. He even goes on to say ( i think in thess.) that if anyone who calls himself a brother but does not follow what Paul taught..not to even EAT with the person. So there does seem to be some judgement would be a Godly thing. The Lord called a spade a spade. That verse in Mathew 7 is taken WAAAY outta context...that is just my two cents.

Right, T, that is how I see it as well. I agree with your interpretation of Thess. Too. I'm in favor of letting God judge in the sense that Jesus meant it... which was to condemn. If anyone has the authority to save or destroy, it is God. But he expects us to make sense of his moral vision in our lives and in the lives of others. We must first make moral judgements of ourselves but sometimes as we observe the lives of others we can also learn from others sins. We don't need to point a condemning finger in their face but in love show people where they have erred. Now, I'm not advocating being a busy-body meddling around trying to point out others sins. But I don't think it's hard to consider a time and place in your life or mine where it was necessary to confront someone about something... doing so with that person's best interest in mind is a loving thing to do.

Ultimately, I think this only works in the context of some relationship shared with another person. Although, there are certainly times and places where standing up for what is good is necessary whether I know the person or not.

I appreciate your thoughts and think that they are well considered.

[N0help4u]

I believe that often people use the catch all phrase of hypocrite because they want to justify their not wanting to get to know God.

Although I do and have known many judgmental Christians BUT when we get face to face with God it isn't going to be about the hypocrite down the street, or the hypocrite that cheated you or the hypocrite in the pew next to you. Its going to be about you and you alone and why you rejected God. At least that is the way I look at it.

[arcura]

N0help4u,
You are right.
But...
I have not rejected God and never will.
Fred

[classyT]

I believe that often people use the catch all phrase of hypocrite because they want to justify their not wanting to get to know God.

Although I do and have known many judgmental Christians BUT when we get face to face with God it isn't going to be about the hypocrite down the street, or the hypocrite that cheated you or the hypocrite in the pew next to you. Its going to be about you and you alone and why you rejected God. At least that is the way I look at it.

Exactly... in the END all that matters is that age old question... what will YOU do with the Christ? As for me and my house... we will serve the Lord.

Incidentally, there isn't anyone other than the Lord who hasn't been hypocritical a time or two if they have lived any length of time...

[speechlesstx]

I heard once that years ago when people were asked their favorite verse in the Bible

Tessy, I saw a video of a comedian (can't remember his name) who at an appearance was asked his favorite verse so he just pulled one from out of the blue. After that while signing autographs he added this verse reference to his autograph. The verse? Follow the link.

[classyT]

Speech,

LOL that is funny! Hey, I guess he picked what he related to most.

[speechlesstx]

He added something about people washing their hands after reading the verse. :)

[classyT]

Hmmmm? I'd recommend taking a SHOWER after he signed an autograph... tee hee :)

[arcura]

classyT,
Yes.
Hypocrites are many and everywhere.
I once visited a church with some friends and during that service a man walked and began shouting that everyone there was a hypocrite.
After his rant the ministers said, "Welcome home."
Peace and kindness,
Fred

[classyT]

classyT,
Yes.
Hypocrites are many and everywhere.
I once visited a church with some friends and during that service a man walked and began shouting that everyone there was a hypocrite.
After his rant the ministers said, "Welcome home."
Peace and kindness,
Fred

LOL... sometimes you just make me smile!

[arcura]

classyT,
I'm happy that that can be done.
Smile often.
Fred

[homesell]

Zig Ziglar often said, "If you let a hypocrite stand between you and God...which one of you is closer to God?"
And, "If you keep throwing dirt at people, you're just losing ground."
And, "the longer you nurse a grudge, the longer it takes to get better."

[galveston]

Christianity itself originated from Pagan beliefs...and if you ask me the bible or scripture was not meant to be taken literally. It is a group of stories written by human men. These human men wrote this things to help simple minded people understand the teachings. You can not take everything written there literally. These human men were influenced by spiritual forces, but they are not the direct words of God. Religion is about Faith, not about memorising and following a book word for word.

Maybe you and I have a different definition of "Christian".

When I use the word, I mean those who have accepted Jesus as Lord and Savior, meaning that they make every effort to be obedient to what Jesus taught.

Are you saying that this is of pagan origin?

[arcura]

Jeff,
Well said.
Fred