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paraclete · Sep 5, 2020, 05:45 PM

Originally Posted by jlisenbe

Clete, are you familiar with this story?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T9ppb0fsYFM

Yes one of the great actions the RAN took part in in WWII, up there with the Sydney. We hear a great deal about US exploits but we Aussies fought the japs with little resources and stopped them in New Guinea

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMAS_S...NZAC%20convoy.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Milne_Bay

Perhaps you are familiar with these unsung stories

jlisenbe · Sep 5, 2020, 06:48 PM

I was not. I enjoyed the reading.

tomder55 · Sep 6, 2020, 03:26 AM

As I noted ,the game plan of the Dems has been revealed . Axios reported that the Dems expect that initially at least Trump will win a decisive victory ...... and then they will start 'counting ' the mail in ballots .Evita has advised Quid to not concede the race even if Trump appears to have won a decisive victory. As we know already ,states that did not have mail in voting previously had trouble with their counts in the primaries where some results for Congressional primaries took 6 weeks ,and are still contested 3 months later .

https://www.axios.com/bloomberg-grou...e478d42bb.html

Once they start counting the mail in ballots the election results will turn and Biden will "win" according to the scenario .

I think the challenges to the election results, and the inevitable chaos will last weeks or more ;perhaps even past the Jan 20 transition date .

Are the Dems preparing for that scenario ? Of course they are .

A so called bi-partisan group has game played the scenario. The Transition Integrity Project claims to be non-partisan . But they are a collection of Biden supporting leftists and NeverTrumpers . Rosa Brooks who founded the group is a Biden supporter and a contributor to his campaign. There are NO Trump supporters in the group . Brooks was was Counselor to Under Secretary of Defense for Policy and Special Coordinator for Rule of Law and Humanitarian Policy under the emperor , along with a Senior Advisor t0 Bill Clinton’s State Department. She also served as Special Counsel to the President at the Open Society Institute (aka George Soros) and now serves on the advisory board of the foundation . Last month the group published their report .

https://paxsims.wordpress.com/2020/0...nd-transition/

They assess that Trump is likely to contest the result by both legal and extra-legal means, in an attempt to hold onto power. According to Brooks ,"All of our scenarios ended in both street-level violence and political impasse," (as if this isn't happening now with the "peaceful protests " by the milita wings on the Democratic Party ;Antifa and BLM ). Quid predicted on 'The Daily Show ' that Trump would have to be escorted out of office by the military .

talaniman · Sep 6, 2020, 06:01 AM

That's not so far fetched given the hyper partisanship of the politics and the sophistication of both sides. You just left out the other side, your side in this grand scheme to defeat the dufus which as you highlighted in your last paragraph painting social unrest as a political end and conflating protesters with criminals working together. Right out of the right wing re elect the dufus playbook. The rights strategy of suppressing the DEM vote is old as the hills and can be seen best with the dufus shenanigans with mail delivery coupled with the massive fraud lie about mail in voting.

Let's not forget even the right wing 2nd amendment folks taking to those same streets for the dufus to "defend " cops and property supposedly adding more confusion to the basic message of police brutality against black people that goes back decades yet unheeded and unattended.

So lets be fair and balanced here Tom just for the sake of accuracy, because the wingers on the right are scheming just as hard as the left, with the money to do it, even if they are back in the shadows. Nice try though just spinning the left as the partisan bad guys and ignoring they can't all be just the left, as many repubs have crossed over, and protestors are not just black people. You, and the dufus need every white vote you can scare up, racists, extremists and nut cases alike.

We all know that results won't be tallied the same night, that's no big deal for anyone but a great weapon to be used so the dufus can holler rigged...AGAIN! Heck Tom, he started that cry months ago.

Athos · Sep 7, 2020, 12:57 AM

Originally Posted by tomder55

As I noted ,the game plan of the Dems has been revealed .

Once they start counting the mail in ballots the election results will turn and Biden will "win" according to the scenario .

I think the challenges to the election results, and the inevitable chaos will last weeks or more ;perhaps even past the Jan 20 transition date .

Another conspiracy theory. I'm starting to think tom is the source of many of them.

tomder55 · Sep 7, 2020, 04:15 AM

The links I provide prove the Dems are the ones hung up on conspiracy theories .' The Transition Integrity Project ' put out the various scenarios they believe Trump will attempt to steal the election .
This scenario called 'The Red Mirage' was told to HBO by an analytical group assembled by nanny Bloomy to support the Dems ,
https://www.axios.com/bloomberg-grou...e478d42bb.html

tomder55 · Sep 7, 2020, 08:26 AM

painting social unrest as a political end and conflating protesters with criminals working together. Right out of the right wing re elect the dufus playbook.

Sorry it is the 'peaceful protesters 'that are playing into Trump's hand . Here is an incident Saturday at the Pittsburg 'Civil Saturday ' protest where BLM activist clear out a restaurant's outdoor dining area ;vandalize /destroy property ,and accost an elderly couple . This is guaranteed to make it into a Trump campaign ad .
https://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/fo...a218d90616ee5d

talaniman · Sep 7, 2020, 10:59 AM

A bit of exaggeration for effect eh Tom?

Athos · Sep 7, 2020, 12:40 PM

Originally Posted by tomder55

Sorry it is the 'peaceful protesters 'that are playing into Trump's hand . Here is an incident Saturday at the Pittsburg 'Civil Saturday ' protest where BLM activist clear out a restaurant's outdoor dining area ;vandalize /destroy property ,and accost an elderly couple . This is guaranteed to make it into a Trump campaign ad .
https://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/fo...a218d90616ee5d

That video is a disgrace to the Black Lives Matter movement. Violent "protestors" like those in the video are NOT helping the movement. These incidents should get TV press coverage just like the bad police actions.

talaniman · Sep 7, 2020, 02:52 PM

Athos I can agree that it doesn't help the cause they are protesting for, but it's hardly "BLM activist clear out a restaurant's outdoor dining area ;vandalize /destroy property ,and accost an elderly couple"! In your face white people, yes and as inappropriate as harassing the woman in the diner. Yes they will make political hay over it, as they are with "defund the police" and back in the day "burn baby burn". fallout.

Still no excuse to ignore or condone police brutality, or it's fallout. Bad behavior breeds more bad behavior, over time.

Athos · Sep 7, 2020, 09:50 PM

Originally Posted by talaniman

Still no excuse to ignore or condone police brutality, or it's fallout. Bad behavior breeds more bad behavior, over time.

Never would I ignore police brutality. Nor would I ignore (or justify) the actions portrayed in the video. I'm not equating the two, I'm saying they are NOT reminiscent of MLK or John Lewis or any decent person. They will only hurt support for Black Lives Matter.

paraclete · Sep 7, 2020, 10:39 PM

BLM is just another liberal action fiest, any distraction will do. Cops kill more whites than blacks, but any killing of a black is sensationalised. Yes there have been what appear to be unnecessary killings and police brutality but there has also been mob brutality

Athos · Sep 8, 2020, 04:06 AM

Originally Posted by paraclete

BLM is just another liberal action fiest, any distraction will do.

BLM is a protest against cops killing blacks unnecessarily. All sides (right and left) should support such a movement.

Cops kill more whites than blacks,

Irrelevant. It's not about shooting/killing in the line of duty when called for under the circumstances.

but any killing of a black is sensationalised.

Geez, how wrong can one person be? Did you see the videos of the last several months? Is that what you call sensationalized?

Yes there have been what appear to be unnecessary killings

APPEAR TO BE? Do you have eyes?

and police brutality but there has also been mob brutality

They are not equivalent. The police are officials designated by society to keep the peace. Mob brutality comes from criminals.

jlisenbe · Sep 8, 2020, 05:54 AM

but any killing of a black is sensationalised.

Clete, I think that's a fair statement. The police are generally deemed guilty before an investigation takes place. The Michael Brown case in Ferguson is a prime example. BLM instigated riots and burned down several businesses, only to find months later that the police officer had behaved properly. The Tawanna Brawley case of years ago is another example.

In the case of George Floyd, it is now known that he had a lethal dose of fentanyl in his blood. Jacob Brooks, who had been previously charged with sexual assault, resisted arrest, wrestled two cops to the ground, and then got up and was reaching into his car for who knew what. I'm not suggesting the cops are innocent of wrong-doing, but I am saying we need to let the investigative process play out.

These cases are sensationalized because they fit a false narrative being pushed by liberals that there is some sort of widespread, malicious campaign by the nation's police forces against black men. There is no compelling evidence at all to back that, so these unfortunate cases are thrown up as some sort of evidence.

In the meantime, the truly serious pathologies which afflict black America are tragically swept under the rug and ignored.

paraclete · Sep 8, 2020, 06:18 AM

In the meantime, the truly serious pathologies which afflict black America are tragically swept under the rug and ignored.

Yes poverty and injustice is hard to overcome

jlisenbe · Sep 8, 2020, 06:20 AM

Out of wedlock births, under-performing schools, and being raised in a culture of family and educational failure are far, far greater problems. Poverty of mind and culture are the real enemies of any group.

talaniman · Sep 8, 2020, 06:32 AM

That's really a load of crap since you say let's wait for the investigation while blaming the dead guy. Worse is the complete ignorance of the trauma of yet another event caught on camera. This has been happening for decades hidden and covered up, and it's mind blowing to see a cop actually kill a guy. Hard to dismiss it even if it's sensational conspiracy by the black guys. Police brutality is but the tip of the iceberg, and ignoring and dismissing it just makes it more persistent.

If you weren't so focused on what you think people should be doing, you could understand what they want. I mean does it really take a month to investigate 8 minutes of a knee on the neck? Months to investigate a botched drug raid in the wrong house? Years to investigate a choke hold? Months to investigate vigilantes stalking and killing a jogger? How long to figure out 7 shots in the back at close range just ain't right by any stretch of the imagination.

How dare the community take to the streets and say so. Sometimes you white people just piss me off with that crap! Praying for understanding though has only resulted in the reality of talking to a box of rocks and expecting an intelligent answer.

I can only protest the atrocity loudly, peacefully and persistently and vote!

jlisenbe · Sep 8, 2020, 06:38 AM

while blaming the dead guy.

That's a lie. I attached blame to no one. I simply stated the truth.

Sometimes you white people just piss me off with that crap!

Who looks like the racist now? Now I really don't think you are a racist, but that's the kind of race-loaded speech that many blacks despise when it's made about them, and rightfully so. I guess if I was Latino or Asian and made the same statement, it wouldn't "piss" you off? For that matter, what is wrong with the statement? Is it the truth that you find irritating?

I can only protest the atrocity loudly, peacefully and persistently and vote!

Great idea. I support it completely.

Just make sure you can explain your position to the officer involved in the Michael Brown shooting. He was judged guilty for weeks before the INVESTIGATION concluded that he had behaved properly. I would suggest you give the cops the same presumption of innocence that you would want to have. Unless, I suppose, they are now some of those white people who piss you off with that crap. And hopefully, while you are protesting, you can find time to protest the 17 million black babies murdered by abortion in the past fifty years, or the thousands of innocent black people murdered by other black people every year. Gonna protest that? Even plan on talking about it? Probably not, since you can't get any political advantage from those stories.

talaniman · Sep 8, 2020, 06:44 AM

Was the black guy guilty before he was executed murdered? Pretty convenient to have the rules skewed for the cops to have a presumption of innocence and the murdered black guy is well dead, and cannot defend himself.

jlisenbe · Sep 8, 2020, 06:48 AM

He had been charged with a crime (sexual assault). He was certainly guilty of resisting arrest. Should he have been shot seven times? If I was the cop, and a man who was out of control and violent was reaching into his car for who knows what, then I would have responded in some way. Shoot seven times? I don't know. I await what I hope will be a fair and impartial hearing to determine that.

Jacob Brown is not dead.

Everyone accused of a crime, in our country, is presumed innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. Did you not know that?