[speechlesstx]

That's the point, if your job drops you, you have other options.

Uh, no it isn't. You said "A majority of Americans are not affected by Obamacare." That's not true, and that's the point.

"If you like what you have, and your happy with it, then you keep what you have"- The president has said this numerous times, and the fact is you may want to upgrade.

Yeah? When the majority of businesses drop their health care coverage just exactly how are we going to be able keep what we were happy with when we're going to get forced into one of the government approved exchanges?

[excon]

I am sorry excon, If we can put men into space and create pex tubing there is no reason we can not put up a wall along our northern and southern borders.

Hello again, ad:

Yes there is.

Even if we DID build a 3,000 mile long fence up there, and a 1,500 mile one down south - let's make it 20' high, and I'll even spot you a bunch national guard troops on the fence too - we ain't going to keep people out.

Why do I know that?? I know it, because there are some who actually believe that we can keep drugs out of the country, if we only "cracked down" (build a fence?? ). The ultimate expression of cracking down on drugs, would be level 5 federal penitentiary. It has a wall, and several fences. It has guard towers. It has guards. Visitors are searched.

There's drugs in there. Lots of 'em.

So, it doesn't take a great leap of faith to assume, that whatever fence you want to put up, somebody will get around it. Maybe even lots of people.

excon

[talaniman]

DemConWatch:: Obama Executive Order on Health Care

Warning it's a tedious read!

[speechlesstx]

I think the Obama adm is littered with illiterates . I can understand not reading in totality Obamacare . I hear the bills being crafted for "financial reform" and cap and tax are even more ponderous.
But reading and comprehending the Arizona law can be accomplished in 15 minutes by remedial readers .

These cities in California voting to boycott AZ? They apparently haven't read California law.

(a) Every law enforcement agency in California shall fully cooperate with the United States Immigration and Naturalization Service regarding any person who is arrested if he or she is suspected of being present in the United States in violation of federal immigration laws. (b) With respect to any such person who is arrested, and suspected of being present in the United States in violation of federal immigration laws, every law enforcement agency shall do the following: (1) Attempt to verify the legal status of such person as a citizen of the United States, an alien lawfully admitted as a permanent resident, an alien lawfully admitted for a temporary period of time or as an alien who is present in the United States in violation of immigration laws. The verification process may include, but shall not be limited to, questioning the person regarding his or her date and place of birth, and entry into the United States, and demanding documentation to indicate his or her legal status. (2) Notify the person of his or her apparent status as an alien who is present in the United States in violation of federal immigration laws and inform him or her that, apart from any criminal justice proceedings, he or she must either obtain legal status or leave the United States. (3) Notify the Attorney General of California and the United States Immigration and Naturalization Service of the apparent illegal status and provide any additional information that may be requested by any other public entity. (c) Any legislative, administrative, or other action by a city, county, or other legally authorized local governmental entity with jurisdictional boundaries, or by a law enforcement agency, to prevent or limit the cooperation required by subdivision (a) is expressly prohibited.

Man, that sounds an awful lot like Arizona's law doesn't it?

[talaniman]

Originally Posted by adthern
I am sorry excon, If we can put men into space and create pex tubing there is no reason we can not put up a wall along our northern and southern borders.

Build it, and they will figure out a way to get around it.

Nobody has told me where the money comes from?

[smoothy]

Build it, and they will figure out a way to get around it.

Nobody has told me where the money comes from??

Cutting off welfare, education and emergency medical care to Illegals would more than cover it.

[talaniman]

Cutting off welfare, education and emergency medical care to Illegals would more than cover it.

I can agree to a point, but would never cut emergency medical care for any human that needs it.

[talaniman]

These cities in California voting to boycott AZ? They apparently haven't read California law.



Man, that sounds an awful lot like Arizona's law doesn't it?

Except the part about being sued by any one who says they are not enforcing the new law. Many In Arizona law enforcement, already follow federal guidelines, and state procedures for law enforcement, and only question those with no ID, or means to verify identity. That's already a procedure on the books. So why right this duplication> An election year?

[talaniman]

QUOTE by speechlesstx;
Uh, no it isn't. You said "A majority of Americans are not affected by Obamacare." That's not true, and that's the point.

I should have specified "adversely affected".

When the majority of businesses drop their health care coverage just exactly how are we going to be able keep what we were happy with when we're going to get forced into one of the government approved exchanges?

Are you afraid it might happen, or will happen? Right now there is no evidence that it has, or will happen, and every indication is companies are already restructuring to meet the new guidelines, that give you more options than what you liked before. And saves THEM money (Or makes them even more). So what are your fears (points with no FACTS) even based on.

You know, what will you say if you find what you like even cheaper? My health insurance through my company has already gone down and I have the notice to prove it. $34 bucks a month, deducted from my monthly check. Fact overcome fear.

[tomder55]

Don't wish to hijack Ex's border posting so I will provide a link to Obamacare on the Obamacare thred

[adthern]

Hello again, ad:

Yes there is.

Even if we DID build a 3,000 mile long fence up there, and a 1,500 mile one down south - let's make it 20' high, and I'll even spot you a bunch national guard troops on the fence too - we ain't gonna keep people out.

Why do I know that???? I know it, because there are some who actually believe that we can keep drugs out of the country, if we only "cracked down" (build a fence???). The ultimate expression of cracking down on drugs, would be level 5 federal penitentiary. It has a wall, and several fences. It has guard towers. It has guards. Visitors are searched.

There's drugs in there. Lots of 'em.

So, it doesn't take a great leap of faith to assume, that whatever fence you wanna put up, somebody will get around it. Maybe even lots of people.

excon

Hey ex,

Wall not fence--and I never said my wall wasn't going to have machine gun towers in it, because it does!

Also, no doubt drugs will still come through the boarders, that's not what Im trying to keep out. Many of the drugs that come through the prison are in body cavities--I am fairly sure, though I know a few people who could, no one is going to carry a fully grown illegal immigrant farm worker in their body cavity--well except this one girl...

[adthern]

Build it, and they will figure out a way to get around it.

Nobody has told me where the money comes from??

Everyone is so against a wall... why is that? If it doesn't work--it doesn't work, we spend a few hundred million maybe a billion to at least give it a try... hell we spend more than that on hair gel for obama!

But seriously, the money comes out of the taxes, yup its on the back of the american working person--and normally I am very against taxes, but this one I would gladly pay for--hell I bet if you had a telethon for the wall you would get enough money!

[adthern]

I can agree to a point, but would never cut emergency medical care for any human that needs it.

Just as a matter of law--No one is ever denied emergency medical care in any hospital or clinic in the United States. Period. I know this because I am a nurse and am bound by that particular law every time I work in an ER.

[tomder55]

It is undeniable that a wall would work . Would it be 100 %effective ? Probably not ;but would it prevent the unimpeded border invasion ? Absolutely . Perhaps with some controllable numbers here a rational policy could be attempted. But amnesty without border control ? Been there done that.

[excon]

Hello again, ad:

From an article you can read here. "... Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff said a wall running the length of a border would cost too much. A 2,000 mile state-of-the-art border fence has been estimated to cost between four and eight billion dollars."

That covers the Mexican border... One up north will cost at least 10 billion more... But, it's only taxpayers money...

excon

[paraclete]

Hello again, ad:

From an article you can read here. "... Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff said a wall running the length of a border would cost too much. A 2,000 mile state-of-the-art border fence has been estimated to cost between four and eight billion dollars."

That covers the Mexican border... One up north will cost at least 10 billion more... But, it's only taxpayers money...

excon

Ex you are looking at this all wrong, look at the economic stimulus package this represents and most of the work has to be done in areas where there isn't much work available so it has a bonus effect. The stimulus flows into steel, concrete, trucking, construction, so take back the money from those banks who didn't want it anyway and put some of those unemployed to work. Hell you could even subcontract it out to cheap labour from Mexico. You would have no shortage of takers and it might even lure some of those illegals back to the other side of the border. Not only that you will get a thing of lasting beauty, a new wonder of the world. If little Israel can build their wall surely the US isn't to be outdone by a tiny nation

[talaniman]

Now we are talking, building a wall the banks, insurance companies, and the drug industry has to pay for. Where do I sign up, and how high. Heck lets throw in big OIL, and build it with cameras on top, and a REC center for the guards.

[smoothy]

I think Arizona would be better off modeling its law off Mexicos Illegal immigration law.

Lets see the Mexicans squirm out of THAT one the next time the two faced bigot President Calderon sugests OUR law is unfair to his people. Then justify THEIR law... they do vigerously enforce on their southern border.

[talaniman]

Abject poverty brings out the worst in us humans sometimes.

[speechlesstx]

Commissioner Gary Pierce of the Arizona Corporate Commission sent LA's mayor a response to their decision to boycott AZ:

Dear Mayor Villaraigosa,

I was dismayed to learn that the Los Angeles City Council voted to boycott Arizona and Arizona-based companies — a vote you strongly supported — to show opposition to SB 1070 (Support our Law Enforcement and Safe Neighborhoods Act).

You explained your support of the boycott as follows: “While we recognize that as neighbors, we share resources and ties with the State of Arizona that may be difficult to sever, our goal is not to hurt the local economy of Los Angeles, but to impact the economy of Arizona. Our intent is to use our dollars — or the withholding of our dollars — to send a message.” (emphasis added)

I received your message; please receive mine. As a state-wide elected member of the Arizona Corporation Commission overseeing Arizona’s electric and water utilities, I too am keenly aware of the “resources and ties” we share with the City of Los Angeles. In fact, approximately twenty-five percent of the electricity consumed in Los Angeles is generated by power plants in Arizona.

If an economic boycott is truly what you desire, I will be happy to encourage Arizona utilities to renegotiate your power agreements so Los Angeles no longer receives any power from Arizona-based generation. I am confident that Arizona’s utilities would be happy to take those electrons off your hands. If, however, you find that the City Council lacks the strength of its convictions to turn off the lights in Los Angeles and boycott Arizona power, please reconsider the wisdom of attempting to harm Arizona’s economy.

People of goodwill can disagree over the merits of SB 1070. A state-wide economic boycott of Arizona is not a message sent in goodwill.

Sincerely,

Commissioner Gary Pierce

He should have also asked him if he understood California's own similar laws.