[Tj3]

No Tommy : we do NOT have a level playing field.
You demand OSE from every opponent, while you provide only SSE yourself for your claims and suggestions.

Cred,

I got a good laugh out of that - no, it is you who keep asking and refuse to answer.

How you manage to distort reality like that is beyond me.

Tom

[Alty]

Tom,

BTW, the proof of the fulfillment of prophecy can be shown to be historical - or are you going to reject the historical record because it was written by men also?

[marriaget]

But how do I talk to him? If there really is a god...

Do I just say... god please appear before me... or something? Go somewhere quiet? Or whatttttt, I don't know this stuff.

[Alty]

I just got a call from my cousin, my grandmother is dying, she may not survive the night, definitely won't survive the week.

So, everyone, what is truth? I can tell you one absolute truth. We all live, and we all die. What we do between those two is up to us and only us.

Is there a God watching over us? Is there a heaven, is there a hell? In the end, does it really matter?

My parents prayed, read the bible, sent me to Catholic school, believed in God. When they got sick I prayed every night for a miracle, I wept, I was down on my knees, just one small miracle, let the cancer be gone, let them live.

They both died, then my grandmother, then my mother in law died, then a friends father died, and now my grandmother. In the last 7 years I've seen more death than most people see in their lifetime. I'm done.

If God exists, then why all this suffering? I've lived through more death then anyone else I know at my age. And don't tell me that everything happens for a reason, because the only thing that's happened is my saddness, my heartbreak, the loss of grandparents for my children, the loss of a relationship like no other. The loss of the people who gave me life, taught me love, gave me my backbone. Well, that backbone is getting weaker every time someone else dies.

I don't want to argue anymore. I'd rather shove bamboo sticks under my fingernails, it's more productive.

Good luck everyone, I have to go prepare a eulogy.

[Tj3]

I just got a call from my cousin, my grandmother is dying, she may not survive the night, definitely won't survive the week.

I am very sorry to hear about this.

So, everyone, what is truth? I can tell you one absolute truth. We all live, and we all die. What we do between those two is up to us and only us.

How can you be so sure of that?

Is there a God watching over us? Is there a heaven, is there a hell? In the end, does it really matter?

Yes, there is a God and yes it does matter. Indeed if there is even a chance that there is a God, isn't it important to find out and investigate the facts while we are yet alive and able to do so - while there is time? It is okay to say that we don't know, and indeed that is better than to deny that God exists as some do.

If God exists, then why all this suffering?

The suffering is the result of sin. God created us perfectly, but we have all sinned and rebelled against God. When sin entered the world, death entered into nature, causing our bodies to age, die and decay.

That is why God came to earth as a man, to die on the cross that we might be reconciled to Him, and be able to restored by means of a glorified body which we receive when we die. God did not come to condemn, but to save us, and it is up to us to make the decision to receive Him as Lord and Saviour or reject His offer of reconciliation.

My wife has a brother who died without receiving Christ. It causes her grief to think of his fate, but Gopd has given us a promise:

Rev 21:3-4
4 And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes; there shall be no more death, nor sorrow, nor crying. There shall be no more pain, for the former things have passed away."
NKJV

For those who have lost friends and relatives who are not saved. knowing that God will wipe away every tear is a great promise.

I hope that someday you will consider the gospel. I am always willing to go off line with you to discuss it anytime that you wish.

In the meantime, I will pray that God will comfort you, and your grandmother.

[classyT]

Yes Tom, I went to Catholic school for 10 years, it was mandatory.

The funny thing is, even they taught us that the bible was at most "inspired" by God, but written by man. You are claiming that God wrote the bible, I'm interested to see your evidence for this, as you did state that you have evidence.

Alty,

The mere fact that the Jews are back in Israel after being scattered for almost 2000 years ( all of that was predicted in the Bible) is a miracle. Not only is it a miracle but God said that they would become a nation again in ONE day. Israel became a Nation again on May 14, 1948. It took ONE day. Can you name any race of people who have been scattered all over the world for over 2000 years who even know WHO they are?. let alone become a Nation again. Why did this happen? Because GOD said it would.

Daniels prophecies are so accrurate! He predicted that 4 world empires will come on the stage. He gave details that NO ONE could possibly know ahead of time. It is amazing. Course sceptics say that Daniel was written after the World empires and they NEED to believe that otherwise they may have to actually consider that the Bible is true. HOWEVER this is false. It is interesting because he described their rise and how they would be overthrown and by whom. Funny thing is... the LAST empire.. the Roman Empire was never overthrown and he predicted it. How could he have known that? I suppose Daniel who lived before Christ wrote it AFTER the fall of the Roman Empire. LOL That of course is impossible. AND Jesus himself called Daniel a prophet.

Those are only a few prohecies... every single thing the bible has recorded has happened or WILL happen. There are few prophecies that still need to be fulfilled. I actual believe they will be in my lifetime. Get this.. the Bible said that in the last days... Russia and Iran would become allies. Now for about 2500 years.. that hasn't been the case. IT IS NOW.

One last thing... men wrote the Bible but we read in Timothy that it was all inspired by God.

It is an awesome book. Don't take my word or tj3's or creed's word. Check it out for yourself and make your own mind up. I understand that you believe in God. Maybe not the way I do... but I'd like you to find out for yourself about the accuracy of the Bible. It is pretty cool book. Sorry this is so long. I get excited talking about it. :)

Alty, I just read your last post... I am SOOO sorry about your Grandmother! I hope you don't see my post as another argument because it was not intended to be.

[Tj3]

Tom,

BTW, the proof of the fulfillment of prophecy can be shown to be historical - or are you going to reject the historical record because it was written by men also?

Note that I was indicating that the historical record could be used to valid the fact that the prophecy in the Bible came to pass.

Yes, the secular historical record provides evidences of the fulfillment of Bible prophecy.

[classyT]

You know that I respect anyones personal BELIEF.

:) :) :) :) :)



.

.

Cred,

Yes you have been the PERSONIFICATION of that quote! HA HA HA HA HO HO and a harty har har! You should be on the comedy channel. I enjoyed that!!

You know the bible says a merry heart doeth good like a medicine. :p

[Credendovidis]

Cred, yes you have been the PERSONIFICATION of that quote! HA HA HA HA HO HO and a harty har har! You should be on the comedy channel. I enjoyed that!!!! You know the bible says a merry heart doeth good like a medicine.

Yes classyT : I respect everyone's religious views. What I do not respect are empty personal claims and suggestions that are made based on religion.
You BELIEVE in "God", I say "ok". You CLAIM "God" exists, I say PROVE IT!!

How strange that you can not understand the basic difference between these two positions.

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

.

.

[classyT]

Yes classyT : I respect everyone's religious views. What I do not respect are empty personal claims and suggestions that are made based on religion.
You BELIEVE in "God", I say "ok". You CLAIM "God" exists, I say PROVE IT !!!

How strange that you can not understand the basic difference between these two positions.



.

.

Really Cred,

Well I didn't see any respect in the statement below. I was wondering what the differences were in catholics and mainstream christianity. My personal belief was they were differenct.. FR_Chuck disagreed. This is what you HAD to say:

Quote by CRED: Why interfere with how other people interpret their Christian belief? Please stop this intolerance and "wise-acring"!

I was just asking a question. You didn't have an answer so you called my question intolerant and "wise-acring". That is YOUR idea of respect.:rolleyes:


Then again on a thread discussing Halloween and why some Christians think it is wrong to celebrate it... this is what YOU said.

Quote by Cred: If Christians in general would spend as much energy and time on improving their own approach towards others as some of them spend here on intolerant behaviour, heaven would exist, just here on a peacefull earth...

You are NOT respectful of Christians or their beliefs. You are NOT just here to get OSE, you are here to pick a fight and prove that you are more intelligent and TOLERANT ( LOL LOL) than the Christians. :rolleyes::rolleyes:

So, I will ask again... just because someone BELIEVES something... does THAT make it true?

The answer is NO. The proof is always in the pudding.:p

I use the Bible to back up my beliefs because it is TRUTH. It is right 100 percent of the time. Whether YOU think so or not. Strange isn't it that you can't get that concept.? Oh well maybe you aren't nearly as smart as you think you are... I don't know? Just throwing that suggestion out there.

[NeedKarma]

[Tj3]

Yes classyT : I respect everyone's religious views.

Cred, I have known you for many years, and this is not an attribute that I have seen from you.

You BELIEVE in "God", I say "ok". You CLAIM "God" exists, I say PROVE IT!!

But then you are unwilling to look at the proof when give, nor are you willing to apply that same standard to your own BELIEFS.

[Alty]

Tom,

You haven't provided any proof, you've only provided things that you claim prove God simply because there's no other explanation yet.

Just because we don't know how something came to be doesn't mean it's automatically God. That's not logical.

[NeedKarma]

Tom,

You haven't provided any proof, you've only provided things that you claim prove God simply because there's no other explanation yet.

Just because we don't know how something came to be doesn't mean it's automatically God. That's not logical.

That's exactly what I see from him as well.

[classyT]

Oh nk,

Why do you tempt me so?. you know I could say something funny here. I won't. I am going to be nice. You think my humor is mean and sarcastic anyway. Or... no.. I think you called it "passive aggressive.".. LOL. Well, I have decided to be a kinder, gentlier classy T. ( at least until the Holidays are over) I get crabby in January. :p

[asking]

Just because we don't know how something came to be doesn't mean it's automatically God. That's not logical.

Yup.I agree with Altenweg.

I could argue just as logically that since I can't imagine why trees just happen to have a pigment (chlorophyll) that allows them to harvest solar energy, that proves any idea I can think of, including that the first land plants was the work of Aliens from the star system Sirius who terraformed the Earth 500 million years ago.

X is in the gaps means: "If you can't explain it with your hypothesis, then mine is right, and I don't have to explain how my hypothesis explains anything."

[Tj3]

Tom,

You haven't provided any proof, you've only provided things that you claim prove God simply because there's no other explanation yet.

You said that you would reject even the record of history is it valdiated prophecy, so there is no way to meet your standard of truth - once we meet it, you reject the evidence.

If you want evidence, you must be willing to acceptb evidence that may disagree with what you want to believe.

Just because we don't know how something came to be doesn't mean it's automatically God. That's not logical.

No one said that. No one put that forward as an argument. You are therefore using the fallacy of a strawman argument.

[Alty]

No Tom, not true.

Historical documents do not prove God's existence, no matter how much you want it to.

You see what you want to see, not what is factual. If that's what you need in order to justify your belief, then fine.

I'm done arguiing, I have more important things to do, like planning my Oma's funeral as she passed away last night.

Continue fighting this losing battle, I'm done.

Alty out.

[NeedKarma]

No one said that. No one put that forward as an argument. You are therefore using the fallacy of a strawman argument.

How is she misrepresenting your argument? You DO believe that that things are so complex that only a god could have created them; is that not correct?

[JoeT777]

[See 1 Cor 15:54]

OeT