[arcura]

fitnahpolice,
The Holy Bible records that Jesus did admit to His divinity as did others.
Your claim that Jesus did not is a false claim.
Peace and kindness,
Fred (arcura)

[-radioactive-]

:confused:
Is Jesus Christ God?
Investigate these interesting claims... The earliest followers of Jesus all seemed pretty convinced that Jesus was fully God in human form.
Paul said, "He is the image of the invisible God...in him all the fullness of God was pleased to dwell."
John said that Jesus created the world.
Peter said, "Every one who believes in him receives forgiveness of sins through his name." But what did Jesus say about himself?
Did he ever identify himself as God? According to the Bible...absolutely! Below are some of his statements made while on earth, in their context. Is Jesus God? How he implied he was God: The Jews therefore said to Him, "You are not yet fifty years old, and have You seen Abraham?" Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am." Therefore they picked up stones to throw at Him; but Jesus hid Himself, and went out of the temple. (John 8:57-59)
"I and the Father are one." The Jews took up stones again to stone Him. Jesus answered them, "I showed you many good works from the Father; for which of them are you stoning Me?" The Jews answered Him, "For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy; and because You, being a man, make Yourself out to be God." (John 10:30-33)
And Jesus cried out and said, "He who believes in Me does not believe in Me, but in Him who sent Me. And he who beholds Me beholds the One who sent Me. I have come as light into the world, that everyone who believes in Me may not remain in darkness." (John 12:44-46)
And so when He had washed their feet, and taken His garments, and reclined at the table again, He said to them, "Do you know what I have done to you? You call Me Teacher and Lord; and you are right, for I am. If I then, the Lord and the Teacher, washed your feet, you also ought to wash one another's feet." (John 13:12-14)
Jesus said to him, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father, but through Me. If you had known Me, you would have known My Father also; from now on you know Him, and have seen Him." Philip said to Him, "Lord, show us the Father, and it is enough for us." Jesus said to him, "Have I been so long with you, and yet you have not come to know Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; how do you say, 'Show us the Father'?" (John 14:6-9)
Is Jesus God? How he described himself: Jesus therefore said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, it is not Moses who has given you the bread out of heaven, but it is My Father who gives you the true bread out of heaven. For the bread of God is that which comes down out of heaven, and gives life to the world." They said therefore to Him, "Lord, evermore give us this bread." Jesus said to them, "I am the bread of life; he who comes to Me shall not hunger, and he who believes in Me shall never thirst." (John 6:32-35)
Again therefore Jesus spoke to them, saying, "I am the light of the world; he who follows Me shall not walk in the darkness, but shall have the light of life." The Pharisees therefore said to Him, "You are bearing witness of Yourself; Your witness is not true." Jesus answered and said to them, "Even if I bear witness of Myself, My witness is true; for I know where I came from, and where I am going; but you do not know where I come from, or where I am going." (John 8:12-14)
Jesus therefore said to them again, "Truly, truly, I say to you, I am the door of the sheep. All who came before Me are thieves and robbers, but the sheep did not hear them. I am the door; if anyone enters through Me, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture. The thief comes only to steal, and kill, and destroy; I came that they might have life, and might have it abundantly. I am the good shepherd; the good shepherd lays down His life for the sheep." (John 10:7-11)
Martha therefore said to Jesus, "Lord, if You had been here, my brother would not have died. Even now I know that whatever You ask of God, God will give You." Jesus said to her, "Your brother shall rise again." Martha said to Him, "I know that he will rise again in the resurrection on the last day." Jesus said to her, "I am the resurrection and the life; he who believes in Me shall live even if he dies, and everyone who lives and believes in Me shall never die. Do you believe this?" She said to Him, "Yes, Lord; I have believed that You are the Christ, the Son of God, even He who comes into the world." (John 11:21-27)
Is Jesus God? What he said he was sent here to do: But Jesus called them to Himself, and said, "You know that the rulers of the Gentiles lord it over them, and their great men exercise authority over them. It is not so among you, but whoever wishes to become great among you shall be your servant, and whoever wishes to be first among you shall be your slave; just as the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give His life a ransom for many." (Matthew 20:25-28)
For He was teaching His disciples and telling them, "The Son of Man is to be delivered into the hands of men, and they will kill Him; and when He has been killed, He will rise three days later." But they did not understand this statement, and they were afraid to ask Him. (Mark 9:31-32)
"For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish, but have eternal life. For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world should be saved through Him. He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God." (John 3:16-18)
"All that the Father gives Me shall come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will certainly not cast out. For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me. And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that of all that He has given Me I lose nothing, but raise it up on the last day. For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him, may have eternal life; and I Myself will raise him up on the last day." (John 6:37-40)
Do you believe what the bibles says about Jesus being God?:confused:

Jesus Was 100% God, 100% Human
He Neither Denied Nor Claimed That He Was God Himself
So We Cannot Say He Claimed Himself God.
But God, Jesus, And The Holy Spirit
Are All God, Just In Different Forms.

[arcura]

Radioactive,
When Jesus answered "I AM" he was saying he was God Yahweh "I AM"
Peace and kindness,
Fred (arcura)

[-radioactive-]

He said I AM not I AM GOD.
So he didn't claim he was God axactly.
He just claimed I AM
If he said I AM GOD, or I AM YOUR LORD, BOW DOWN!
Then I would believe it
But he did say that the Lord God was his Father

[chaplain john]

:confused:
Is Jesus Christ God?
Investigate these interesting claims... The earliest followers of Jesus all seemed pretty convinced that Jesus was fully God in human form.
Paul said, "He is the image of the invisible God...in him all the fullness of God was pleased to dwell."
John said that Jesus created the world.
Peter said, "Every one who believes in him receives forgiveness of sins through his name." But what did Jesus say about himself?
Did he ever identify himself as God? According to the Bible...absolutely! Below are some of his statements made while on earth, in their context. Is Jesus God? How he implied he was God: The Jews therefore said to Him, "You are not yet fifty years old, and have You seen Abraham?" Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am." Therefore they picked up stones to throw at Him; but Jesus hid Himself, and went out of the temple. (John 8:57-59)
"I and the Father are one." The Jews took up stones again to stone Him. Jesus answered them, "I showed you many good works from the Father; for which of them are you stoning Me?" The Jews answered Him, "For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy; and because You, being a man, make Yourself out to be God." (John 10:30-33)
And Jesus cried out and said, "He who believes in Me does not believe in Me, but in Him who sent Me. And he who beholds Me beholds the One who sent Me. I have come as light into the world, that everyone who believes in Me may not remain in darkness." (John 12:44-46)
And so when He had washed their feet, and taken His garments, and reclined at the table again, He said to them, "Do you know what I have done to you? You call Me Teacher and Lord; and you are right, for I am. If I then, the Lord and the Teacher, washed your feet, you also ought to wash one another's feet." (John 13:12-14)
Jesus said to him, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father, but through Me. If you had known Me, you would have known My Father also; from now on you know Him, and have seen Him." Philip said to Him, "Lord, show us the Father, and it is enough for us." Jesus said to him, "Have I been so long with you, and yet you have not come to know Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; how do you say, 'Show us the Father'?" (John 14:6-9)
Is Jesus God? How he described himself: Jesus therefore said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, it is not Moses who has given you the bread out of heaven, but it is My Father who gives you the true bread out of heaven. For the bread of God is that which comes down out of heaven, and gives life to the world." They said therefore to Him, "Lord, evermore give us this bread." Jesus said to them, "I am the bread of life; he who comes to Me shall not hunger, and he who believes in Me shall never thirst." (John 6:32-35)
Again therefore Jesus spoke to them, saying, "I am the light of the world; he who follows Me shall not walk in the darkness, but shall have the light of life." The Pharisees therefore said to Him, "You are bearing witness of Yourself; Your witness is not true." Jesus answered and said to them, "Even if I bear witness of Myself, My witness is true; for I know where I came from, and where I am going; but you do not know where I come from, or where I am going." (John 8:12-14)
Jesus therefore said to them again, "Truly, truly, I say to you, I am the door of the sheep. All who came before Me are thieves and robbers, but the sheep did not hear them. I am the door; if anyone enters through Me, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture. The thief comes only to steal, and kill, and destroy; I came that they might have life, and might have it abundantly. I am the good shepherd; the good shepherd lays down His life for the sheep." (John 10:7-11)
Martha therefore said to Jesus, "Lord, if You had been here, my brother would not have died. Even now I know that whatever You ask of God, God will give You." Jesus said to her, "Your brother shall rise again." Martha said to Him, "I know that he will rise again in the resurrection on the last day." Jesus said to her, "I am the resurrection and the life; he who believes in Me shall live even if he dies, and everyone who lives and believes in Me shall never die. Do you believe this?" She said to Him, "Yes, Lord; I have believed that You are the Christ, the Son of God, even He who comes into the world." (John 11:21-27)
Is Jesus God? What he said he was sent here to do: But Jesus called them to Himself, and said, "You know that the rulers of the Gentiles lord it over them, and their great men exercise authority over them. It is not so among you, but whoever wishes to become great among you shall be your servant, and whoever wishes to be first among you shall be your slave; just as the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give His life a ransom for many." (Matthew 20:25-28)
For He was teaching His disciples and telling them, "The Son of Man is to be delivered into the hands of men, and they will kill Him; and when He has been killed, He will rise three days later." But they did not understand this statement, and they were afraid to ask Him. (Mark 9:31-32)
"For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish, but have eternal life. For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world should be saved through Him. He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God." (John 3:16-18)
"All that the Father gives Me shall come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will certainly not cast out. For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me. And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that of all that He has given Me I lose nothing, but raise it up on the last day. For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him, may have eternal life; and I Myself will raise him up on the last day." (John 6:37-40)
Do you believe what the bibles says about Jesus being God?:confused:

Brothers and sisters here I don't claim to be a highly educated man. In fact I am just an old retired truck driver (I usually term that Professional Road Dummy) Many years after I felt the call to preach Gods Good News I quit running and started to try to educate myself to do just exactly that, In the course of my attempt I learned a few things and what I consider one of the most important of them was that I would not always agree with the opinions and or beliefs of others. I personally have found this to be very helpful: Sometimes we must agree to disagree and turn together to do a work for Christ.

I find quite a number of people here who are obviously are much better educated than I in the course of a discussion where there is not much probability of ever coming to common ground (I have come to that realization after reading a little less than half the posts on the thread I have learned much as I read and assume that I will learn more as I read the rest but I want to post this before I retire. Yes I'm Going off half-cocked.). My suggestion is that we ALL agree to disagree before we end up flaming one-another.

One last thing and I will shut up I have lived in a university town for many years and my personal observation of those "Scholars, Researchers, Theologians and such is that the PhD following their names could easily stand for Permanent Head Damage. There is Theology and there is Knee-ology. Sometimes the knee-ology and inspiration of the Holy Spirit is more important when it comes to the winning of souls into the Kingdom of God and THAT is the important thing for Christians to do

[arcura]

chaplain john
Thanks for you in put on that.
Peace and kindness,
Fred (arcura)

[galveston]

Personally, I'm kind of glad that fitnapolice has weighed in on this. Right now, I'm waiting to hear why he thinks the words of one man, (Muhammed) is more reliable than the words of the many eye-witnesses who left us the account(s) of the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ. Also, if I understand him right, he believes that Jesus will come back to administer judgment. That would make Jesus Lord, wouldn't it? Why don't Muslims proclaim Jesus as Lord now? I certainly proclaim Jesus as Lord. Does that put us on the same page on this one point? I hope we can discuss all this, point by point, as I would like to know what he really believes.

[chaplain john]

[

It is also interesting how you refer to Jesus as The Word.. which is correct he is called the Word but is entirely separate from God the Almighty.. however that is another subject and if you wish I will provide my insight on that as well :)[/quote]

Here I go again jumping in to try and make a fool of myself but I can't help it.

My logic suffers a lot these days but it seems to me that a Holy Being who is a Spiritual Being who is capable of speaking a Word which then becomes substance would be capable of manifesting himself in three different ways at the same time especially if he himself is not bound by space and time.

Beautiful diva Chapter one of the Book of John starts like this: John 1:1-5
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God; 3 all things were made through him, and without him was not anything made that was made. 4 In him was life, and the life was the light of men. 5 The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it. RSV

Gen 1:1-3
1:1 In the beginning God (God the Father I don't think anyone will debate that) (Oops sorry Darwinians)created the heavens and the earth. To the earth was without form and void, and darkness was upon the face of the deep; and the Spirit of God (Holy Spirit) was moving over the face of the waters. 3 And God said, "Let there be light"; (The Word... Jesus) and there was light. RSV

[arcura]

chaplain john.
Keep in mind that with God ALL things are possible.
God is not limited by space or time.
Peace and kindness,
Fred (arcura)

[magprob]

Jesus was not GOD becoming man, he was man becoming GOD. That is the whole point of it. The Christ mind is the mind of GOD in us. The Greek "Logos," the word, as used here means Divine Mind in action, the divine archetypal idea of perfect man. The word Christ is a degree of potential stature that dwells in every man.

[chaplain john]

chaplain john.
Keep in mind that with God ALL things are possible.
God is not limited by space or time.
Peace and kindness,
Fred (arcura)

Thank you arcura, that is one of the points I was trying to get across summed up in one sentence.

[arcura]

magprob,
I disagree.
I believe what the bible says about Jesus Christ being God the Son.
Peace and kindness,:)
Fred

[magprob]

He is the son of GOD as we all are. With the same possibilities as Jesus. I'm not arguing with that. If GOD wants to have an immaculate conception then I say he is quite capable to do so.

[arcura]

magprob,
I agree. Whatever God wants He has the ability to accomplish it!!
Peace and kindness,
Fred (arcura)

[fitnahpolice]

Surely God has the ability to do as He wishes. But he never wishes for nor does he approve of blasphemy!

God says in Chapter Mary of the Quran:

88. And they say: "The Most Beneficent (Allâh) has begotten a son (or offspring or children) [as the Jews say: 'Uzair (Ezra) is the son of Allâh, and the Christians say that He has begotten a son ['Iesa (Christ)], and the pagan Arabs say that He has begotten daughters (angels, etc.)]."

89. Indeed you have brought forth (said) a terrible evil thing.

90. Whereby the heavens are almost torn, and the earth is split asunder, and the mountains fall in ruins,

91. That they ascribe a son (or offspring or children) to the Most Beneficent (Allâh).

92. But it is not suitable for (the Majesty of) the Most Beneficent (Allâh) that He should beget a son (or offspring or children).

93. There is none in the heavens and the earth but comes unto the Most Beneficent (Allâh) as a slave.

94. Verily, He knows each one of them, and has counted them a full counting.

95. And everyone of them will come to Him alone on the Day of Resurrection (without any helper, or protector or defender).

96. Verily, those who believe [in the Oneness of Allâh and in His Messenger] and work deeds of righteousness, the Most Beneficent (Allâh) will bestow love for them (in the hearts of the believers).

[Retrotia]

I agree fitnahpolice, God does not approve of blasphemy or heresy.

Christians believe Jesus is the Son of God. Ezra was a prophet from the Old Testament.
Response to Islamic Awareness: Was 'Uzayr (Ezra) Called The Son Of God?

[Jadire]

:confused:
Is Jesus Christ God?
Investigate these interesting claims... The earliest followers of Jesus all seemed pretty convinced that Jesus was fully God in human form.
Paul said, "He is the image of the invisible God...in him all the fullness of God was pleased to dwell."
John said that Jesus created the world.
Peter said, "Every one who believes in him receives forgiveness of sins through his name." But what did Jesus say about himself?
Did he ever identify himself as God? According to the Bible...absolutely! Below are some of his statements made while on earth, in their context. Is Jesus God? How he implied he was God: The Jews therefore said to Him, "You are not yet fifty years old, and have You seen Abraham?" Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am." Therefore they picked up stones to throw at Him; but Jesus hid Himself, and went out of the temple. (John 8:57-59)
"I and the Father are one." The Jews took up stones again to stone Him. Jesus answered them, "I showed you many good works from the Father; for which of them are you stoning Me?" The Jews answered Him, "For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy; and because You, being a man, make Yourself out to be God." (John 10:30-33)
And Jesus cried out and said, "He who believes in Me does not believe in Me, but in Him who sent Me. And he who beholds Me beholds the One who sent Me. I have come as light into the world, that everyone who believes in Me may not remain in darkness." (John 12:44-46)
And so when He had washed their feet, and taken His garments, and reclined at the table again, He said to them, "Do you know what I have done to you? You call Me Teacher and Lord; and you are right, for I am. If I then, the Lord and the Teacher, washed your feet, you also ought to wash one another's feet." (John 13:12-14)
Jesus said to him, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father, but through Me. If you had known Me, you would have known My Father also; from now on you know Him, and have seen Him." Philip said to Him, "Lord, show us the Father, and it is enough for us." Jesus said to him, "Have I been so long with you, and yet you have not come to know Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; how do you say, 'Show us the Father'?" (John 14:6-9)
Is Jesus God? How he described himself: Jesus therefore said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, it is not Moses who has given you the bread out of heaven, but it is My Father who gives you the true bread out of heaven. For the bread of God is that which comes down out of heaven, and gives life to the world." They said therefore to Him, "Lord, evermore give us this bread." Jesus said to them, "I am the bread of life; he who comes to Me shall not hunger, and he who believes in Me shall never thirst." (John 6:32-35)
Again therefore Jesus spoke to them, saying, "I am the light of the world; he who follows Me shall not walk in the darkness, but shall have the light of life." The Pharisees therefore said to Him, "You are bearing witness of Yourself; Your witness is not true." Jesus answered and said to them, "Even if I bear witness of Myself, My witness is true; for I know where I came from, and where I am going; but you do not know where I come from, or where I am going." (John 8:12-14)
Jesus therefore said to them again, "Truly, truly, I say to you, I am the door of the sheep. All who came before Me are thieves and robbers, but the sheep did not hear them. I am the door; if anyone enters through Me, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture. The thief comes only to steal, and kill, and destroy; I came that they might have life, and might have it abundantly. I am the good shepherd; the good shepherd lays down His life for the sheep." (John 10:7-11)
Martha therefore said to Jesus, "Lord, if You had been here, my brother would not have died. Even now I know that whatever You ask of God, God will give You." Jesus said to her, "Your brother shall rise again." Martha said to Him, "I know that he will rise again in the resurrection on the last day." Jesus said to her, "I am the resurrection and the life; he who believes in Me shall live even if he dies, and everyone who lives and believes in Me shall never die. Do you believe this?" She said to Him, "Yes, Lord; I have believed that You are the Christ, the Son of God, even He who comes into the world." (John 11:21-27)
Is Jesus God? What he said he was sent here to do: But Jesus called them to Himself, and said, "You know that the rulers of the Gentiles lord it over them, and their great men exercise authority over them. It is not so among you, but whoever wishes to become great among you shall be your servant, and whoever wishes to be first among you shall be your slave; just as the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give His life a ransom for many." (Matthew 20:25-28)
For He was teaching His disciples and telling them, "The Son of Man is to be delivered into the hands of men, and they will kill Him; and when He has been killed, He will rise three days later." But they did not understand this statement, and they were afraid to ask Him. (Mark 9:31-32)
"For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish, but have eternal life. For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world should be saved through Him. He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God." (John 3:16-18)
"All that the Father gives Me shall come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will certainly not cast out. For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me. And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that of all that He has given Me I lose nothing, but raise it up on the last day. For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him, may have eternal life; and I Myself will raise him up on the last day." (John 6:37-40)
Do you believe what the bibles says about Jesus being God?:confused:

Absolutely, unequivocally. There is a God.. Jesus and God are one and the same.

[fitnahpolice]

Curious: So if Jesus was God, who did he pray to? Himself? If you say he prayed to the Father, this means all 3 components of the Trinity can be worshipped separately!

Comments on this post
Retrotia disagrees: Limited. He prayed to the Father. When we pray, all 3 are understood. Bc I have Christ in me, the Holy Spirit prays to the Lord Who is Spirit.

Ok this is confusing. So Jesus worshipped, prayed and was subservient to God the Father. And the Christians of today pray to all 3? Why not do as Jesus did? Was he not the best of teachers and guides? So you're saying you have Christ in you; the Holy Spirit prays to the Lord who is the spirit himself. And you are worshipping Christ who is within yourself! Please help!

[fitnahpolice]

Jesus is Lord.

Absolutely, unequivocally. There is a God..Jesus and God are one and the same.

Jesus prayed TO God. He did not pray to himself. If we love Jesus, believe in his teachings and have faith in him, we must all do as he did - Worship the One God like Jesus did.

[fitnahpolice]

Personally, I'm kinda glad that fitnapolice has weighed in on this. Right now, I'm waiting to hear why he thinks the words of one man, (Muhammed) is more reliable than the words of the many eye-witnesses who left us the account(s) of the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ. Also, if I understand him right, he believes that Jesus will come back to administer judgment. That would make Jesus Lord, wouldn't it? Why don't Muslims proclaim Jesus as Lord now? I certainly proclaim Jesus as Lord. Does that put us on the same page on this one point? I hope we can discuss all this, point by point, as I would like to know what he really believes.

Thank you Galveston for considering my viewpoints of having some weight! :)

Firstly, the Holy Qur'an is the speech of God revealed to Muhammad (peace be upon him) via the Archangel Gabriel just as the Torah and the Bible were God's revelations to their respective Prophets. The Qur'an is NOT the words of the unlettered and illiterate Prophet Muhammad and Muhammad dare not add anything to it of his own.

Allah says in Chapter 69:

44. And if he (Muhammad) had forged a false saying concerning Us (Allâh),

45. We surely should have seized him by his right hand (or with power and might),

46. And then certainly should have cut off his life artery (Aorta),

47. And none of you could withhold Us from (punishing) him.

Yes. Jesus (peace be upon him), the son of Mary, was taken up by God (he was neither killed nor crucified) and he will return before the end of time. He will kill the Dajjal (Anti-Christ) and establish peace on the earth as a just ruler judging by the prevailing law of the Quran and not the law of the Gospel. After a period of about 40 years he will pass away and then soon after the Hour (Day of Judgement) will be established.

So Jesus' return and rule on this earth does not make him Lord. In fact he will still be a worshipper of God and will guide the people to the same - singling out Allah for worship without invoking any partners beside Him.

Once the Day of Resurrection and Reckoning is established, Allah alone will be Lord, the King, the Judge - as He has always been and will always be.