[Wondergirl]

Which Bible are we talking about? -- the KJV, the NKJV, the RSV, the NRSV, the NIV, and on and on.

[jlisenbe]

I'm not so sure of that...your responses tell otherwise. For Example: when I said; "There is no truth in what we speak or think." Your response; "Come on, Walter. That's foolishness."

Yeah. I said that because your statement was completely ridiculous. My words were chosen carefully and very accurately.

I stated something that you didn't understand. You didn't understand because you might have been thinking Carnally (not Bible-based).

It just has to be someone else's fault, doesn't it? It couldn't possibly be due to thoughtless, careless wording, could it?

It doesn't make my first statement false.

I didn't say your first statement was false. I simply pointed out that it was stupid. Sorry, but that's just how it is. And your response above amounts to, "Well golly, why can't you just read my mind and understand my poorly, foolishly worded statement? Oh, you must be carnal! You must not know anything!!" And on and on it goes.

Honestly, it would be helpful if you would take on some responsibility for your own actions. Here, when you make a poor comment, it gets pointed out. If you can't handle that, then let me know and I can block your posts. I'd rather not, because you do have some interesting insights, but I do get weary of being accused of nonsense because you don't know how to write accurately.

Which Bible are we talking about? -- the KJV, the NKJV, the RSV, the NRSV, the NIV, and on and on.

Does it make a difference?

[waltero]

On one hand, you say: "I completely agree with that well-expressed belief." And on the other hand, you say it is complete foolishness...When both statements were saying the same thing.

Put it in the context in which it was said - I was referring to the Word of God being a living word and the Word of Man being a living sin. Reality comes from knowing, living, and loving God's word, God's Law, may it live in you...Being a law unto yourself.

It's like here we are, Darkness before the light shines. GOD said -Let there be light! - and here is us, saying - what, what are you talking about, there is no light - And to this day there is no light. - God's word ("let there be light") is not a reality, it doesn't exist. Christians on the other hand - God has just now (at this very moment in time) spoke - Let there be light! - WOW!!! They can see the light, they know the light to be reality. God's word comes alive just now, not some six thousand years ago. God's word lives for all eternity, not just in time. Only in eternity, we won't have to read the spoken word, it will come straight out of our mouths. Remember the Israelites at Mount Sinai, when They became afraid when they heard the voice of the LORD from the midst of the darkness. Why did they choose Moses to speak to them directly, instead of God? Moses died, but his words live on through the Scriptures that he had written down. Sometimes the Israelites Lived life according to the scriptures...thereby bringing life into existence, God's word into reality.

Just like when I said "How does one explain the Bible being the Word of God - you said - you can't - And you are completely right. We can not explain to darkness that God's word gives life. Only God can do that. And he does it by those of us who live the life...the life of the word. Your words are not your own...belonging to sin or God.

And as far as your little comment ("is the door alive" -Yes, knock and it will be open...the door is real) about how can words, written on a page be alive. Maybe you might want to look at the AI dilemma. autonomous artificial intelligence...coding (Laws) written on a page. We have created that which we have become. Right now they are debating on whether we should be able to unplug our creation (simply words on a page), the AI, or what rights they should have, if any. Crazy isn't it? crazy but true.

[jlisenbe]

Once again your carelessness betrays you. When I said, "I completely agree with that well-expressed belief," I was referring to this well-framed statement. "We can Speak on our own (as you can see what's going on in the world today... man's word in action) or we can speak the Words of truth, that comes from God." When I said it is complete foolishness, I was referring to your original poorly worded statement. "There is no truth in what we speak." It seems you are attempting to be intentionally deceitful.

I was referring to the Word of God being a living word and the Word of Man being a living sin.

Maybe, but that is certainly NOT what you said. And even this doesn't make sense. The Word of Man is a living sin??? What??

And as far as your little comment ("is the door alive"

Except that I never said that. Carelessness, Walter, carelessness is your great enemy. This is what I said. "So Jesus is also a door?"

Just like when I said "How does one explain the Bible being the Word of God - you said - you can't.

Where was this said? I don't think this comment is true either. What you ACTUALLY said was, "How does one explain that God is in a book, in pages?" to which I replied, "One cannot" .So four strikes and you are REALLY out.

[jlisenbe]

Christians on the other hand - God has just now (at this very moment in time) spoke - Let there be light! - WOW!!! They can see the light, they know the light to be reality. God's word comes alive just now, not some six thousand years ago. God's word lives for all eternity, not just in time. Only in eternity, we won't have to read the spoken word, it will come straight out of our mouths.

This, I think, is pretty good other than the last part about the word coming out of our mouths in heaven. Where do you ge that from in the Bible?

[waltero]

Which Bible are we talking about? -- the KJV, the NKJV, the RSV, the NRSV, the NIV, and on and on.

(whichever translation Holds the top spot. Check your Amazon list to see which Bible translation holds the top spot. You might even see that the devotional far outshone the Bibles on the list.)

Does it make a difference?

It apparently does to her. She brings this up every time the Bible is mentioned as being a life-giving source. She will never understand until she is able to give way and believe. That's why it's a living Faith.

(I don't agree with that -post 131)
have always received far more from my own devotionals than from preaching

Your devotional is not a Bible. Peter captured the preciousness of divine speech in his pleading question to Jesus: “Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life”
(John 6:68). human words fade. But the Word of the Lord—ever profitable for both comfort and correction—endures forever.

word coming out of our mouths. Where do you get that from in the Bible?

We are in the mind of God. We give voice to his breath. Now it may only be in Praise and worship (in eternity). It would be like singing the same song over and over and over again for all eternity. But for us, every time we sing it it will be like singing it for the first time. God Gave man the breath (Jesus) of life. Through that Breath, translated into Words, spoken by men was the bringing of Jesus to life. It is done much in the same way today. If there was no mention or promise. (having God's life-giving breath...the Word/Scripture) then we would be hopelessly on our own and without a great redeemer, Messiah.

Satan said; Did God really say that. Eve had no clue as to whether God said it or not. Man (Adam) said it. Adam even added to God's spoken word. Eve, realizing that she didn't die after touching the fruit...

Adam added to God's word (he told her not to even touch it...God never said that) yet Adam Spoke well...Jesus telling us the same thing (do not think or touch, run flee, etc.) when dealing with Sin. Touching the fruit might have led to her eating the fruit. So why did Adam Eat the Fruit? Because he loved Eve. Jesus says; Husbands, love your wives, as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her.

When I said the word coming out of our mouth. Thinking Of the time Elisha turned around and looked at them, and he cursed (spoke into the air) them in the name of the LORD. Then two bears came out of the woods and mauled forty-two of them. Or: Elijah answered the captain, “If I am a man of God, may fire come down from heaven and consume you and your fifty men!” Then fire fell from heaven and consumed the captain and his men...might have been more man than God?

[Wondergirl]

Which Bible version do you use, waltero?

[jlisenbe]

Your devotional is not a Bible. Peter captured the preciousness of divine speech in his pleading question to Jesus: “Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life”

My devotional involves reading the Bible. I do love the text you quoted. It concludes with, "and we have believed, and have come to know, that you are the Holy One of God.”


WG, you didn't ask me, but I'll answer. I read/preach from the NASB, but over the past few months I have come to really like the CSB. I use the JB Philips paraphrase as a sort of a commentary, and I also like the New English Translation.

[waltero]

Which Bible version do you use, waltero?

I had to look up the word "Use." I in no way use the Scripture. I might have at one time, But I see it in a different light now.
If you ask me which Bible I read from. I don't know. I can't remember. I have several Bible translations in my house. There is one that I particularly like at present. But I will pick whichever one is available, depending on the room I am in. Who knows, a day might come when I like reading in the Garage more than I do the Bedroom. It's Like going to different Churches, each one might give me insight. It's like each Culture, and each language bringing the Bible to life in a different way, that I never understood before. Having the same meaning but bringing life in so many different ways...opening up God's word unto life.

[waltero]

Why was Jesus Tempted

God Can not be tempted...Backed up By biblical proof. James 1:13 "God Can not be tempted..."

It's really as simple as that. Believe it or not.

[jlisenbe]

1. Hebrews 2:18
   For since He Himself was tempted in that which He has suffered, He is able to come to the aid of those who are tempted.
2. Hebrews 4:15
   For we do not have a high priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but One who has been tempted in all things as we are, yet without sin.

[waltero]

Thank you for posting JL. Those two verses almost threw me for a loop. How many Verses will support a Christian belief that Jesus had a choice, that Jesus could have sinned? There isn't one, not one verse in the entirety of the Holy Scriptures. It's only man's Idea of what Temptation is (the devil made me do it)that does us in. That is why when we come across a plain and simple verse, such as - "God can not be tempted." We simply run with it (no opinion required, even if you don't have one), instead of trying to explain it away with the use of other verses. We shouldn't (not saying you did. You explained that you have no opinion) "use" the bible in that fashion.

I found this (in the hope that it might better articulate what it is I'm getting at)

For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted
By Satan, at his entrance on his public ministry, and a little before his death; which was done, not by stirring up sin in him, for he had none, nor by putting any into him, which could not be done, nor could Satan get any advantage over him; he solicited him one thing and another, but in vain; though these temptations were very troublesome, and disagreeable, and abhorrent to the pure and holy nature of Christ, and so must be reckoned among his sufferings, or things by which he suffered: and as afflictions are sometimes called temptations, in this sense also Christ suffered, being tempted, with outward poverty and meanness, with slight and neglect from his own relations, and with a general contempt and reproach among men: he was often tempted by the Jews with ensnaring questions; he was deserted by his followers, by his own disciples, yea, by his God and Father; all which were great trials to him, and must be accounted as sufferings: and he also endured great pains of body, and anguish of mind, and at last death itself.

This might explain away any Idea that Jesus was undergoing a test of some kind. Or as if Jesus could have succumbed or even contemplated sin. There is no choice to Choose from... is that there is no superior force for him to have succumbed to...He is the source of the only force in existence.



For God cannot be tempted with evil;
or "evils", He was tempted by the Israelites at Massah and Meribah, from which those places had their names, who by their murmuring, distrust, and unbelief, proved and tried his patience and his power; and so he may be, and has been tempted by others in a like way; he may be tempted by evil men, and with evil things, but he cannot be tempted "to evil", as the Ethiopic version renders it; he is proof against all such temptations: he cannot be tempted by anything in himself, who is pure and holy, or by any creature or thing without him, to do any sinful action.

[Wondergirl]

he cannot be tempted by anything in himself, who is pure and holy, or by any creature or thing without him, to do any sinful action.

Yes, He could hsve been while He lived on Earth. That's why God created Him as 100% God AND 100% man. Had Jesus been tempted and sinned, then God would know Jesus was the wrong One to be the substitute for mankind. God would have had to rethink this and maybe create another God-man or come up with a different idea to rescue mankind from sin.

[jlisenbe]

Trying to find the point of agreement between the James passage and the Hebrews passages is the challenge. They do agree. The question is in what way.

Had Jesus been tempted and sinned, then God would know Jesus was the wrong One to be the substitute for mankind. God would have had to rethink this and maybe create another God-man or come up with a different idea to rescue mankind from sin..

The utter impossibility of such an event leads me to conclude that Jesus was not capable of sinning. There was no plan B. I just don't think that there was ever any possibility of Jesus, the divine Son of God and every bit as much God as the Father, actually committing a sin. Tempted? Yes, but no possibility of him yielding to that temptation.

We always should remember that Jesus is the one who was "slain from the foundation of the world". In other words, it was really all settled even before His birth. God never had any intention of allowing His plan of redemption to be left teetering on the edge of a "maybe".

[waltero]

Yes, He could hsve been while He lived on Earth. That's why God created Him as 100% God AND 100% man. Had Jesus been tempted and sinned Jesus was the wrong One to be the substitute for mankind. God would have had to rethink this and create another God-man.

This is truly unbelievable. JL, HELP!
After all that, this is what you get out of it?
I will leave you with that.

[Wondergirl]

Then why was Jesus tempted -- and why did God allow that?

Here's an interesting article:
https://www.ligonier.org/learn/artic...us-have-sinned

In that article, the author (who wrote a book with the same title as this thread) wrote (and I agree):
"I may be wrong, but I think it is wrong to believe that Christ's divine nature made it impossible for his human nature to sin. If that were the case, the temptation, the tests, and his assuming of the responsibility of the first Adam would have all been charades. This position protects the integrity of the authenticity of the human nature because it was the human nature that carried out the mission of the second Adam on our behalf. It was the human nature uniquely anointed beyond measure by the Holy Spirit."

[jlisenbe]

My congrats. This is a well written (though brief) article by a well-respected theologian. I once listened to a 30 part series on philosophy by Dr. Sproul that was great. Sad that he died a year or two ago. At any rate, you came up with a winner.

I especially like his "I may be wrong" approach. I assure you he is usually more adamant than that. From a practical perspective I would agree with him, but from the perspective of God's will and God's eternal plan, I would not agree. If Jesus was the lamb "slain from the foundation of the world", then he was the perfect lamb as well.

[jlisenbe]

I'd still like to know why you think this is so pertinent that you have raised the issue twice now. "Which Bible are we talking about? -- the KJV, the NKJV, the RSV, the NRSV, the NIV, and on and on."

[Wondergirl]

I've raised it twice???

[Wondergirl]

If Jesus was the lamb "slain from the foundation of the world", then he was the perfect lamb as well.

He was the perfect lamb because he decided not to give in to temptation.