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dexter1961 · Jan 27, 2009, 11:34 AM

Your children must remain foremost in your mind on this one, you WILL get through this but it will take a lot of time and THINK before you make any actions. The most important part of a relationship is to TALK and lots of it, all the time. Other wise when problems come along you don's see them. Your wife had a brill life, or so it seems, everything a modern wife could want and more so don't blame any one, things do go wrong in a marriage and you have to work on it but the only way to do it is to talk it through. Always be there to listen to her and try not to argue, always stay calm. Your children are stronger than you think and will come through this as long as you don't let them manuipulate the situation. Parents are often guilty of trying to BUY their kids love or affection to make them look like the better parent but that can have a big detrimental effect. See them as often as you can, love them, don't be afraid to cuddle them and tell them how much they mean to you. They also need to know its not them to blame for the split. Give her time to adjust and think, plenty of space and support, babysit from time to time and if you think there is someone else involved just ask her outright, lies will come out eventually so don't just assume. I hope you manage to work it out and you do right to further your career. I am a big believer in everything happens for a reason so chill out, enjoy the life you have for now. It will all come right in the end.

greatbignow · Jan 27, 2009, 01:09 PM

True, but I often think of what my pastor said years ago. If you REALLY want to take care of your children, love their mother and treat her well. In our post-1970's (divorce spiked during that time) world, we say focus on the children. True, we should focus on them... but it's also important to remember that children need healthy, loving families as well. So, love your spouse and treat them well; your children need to see that too.

greatbignow · Jan 27, 2009, 02:33 PM

Originally Posted by dexter1961

Your children must remain foremost in your mind on this one, you WILL get thru this but it will take a lot of time and THINK before you make any actions. The most important part of a relationship is to TALK and lots of it, all the time. Other wise when problems come along you don's see them. Your wife had a brill life, or so it seems, everything a modern wife could want and more so don't blame any one, things do go wrong in a marriage and you have to work on it but the only way to do it is to talk it through. Always be there to listen to her and try not to argue, always stay calm. Your children are stronger than you think and will come through this as long as you don't let them manuipulate the situation. Parents are often guilty of trying to BUY their kids love or affection to make them look like the better parent but that can have a big detrimental effect. See them as often as you can, love them, dont be afraid to cuddle them and tell them how much they mean to you. They also need to know its not them to blame for the split. Give her time to adjust and think, plenty of space and support, babysit from time to time and if you think there is someone else involved just ask her outright, lies will come out eventually so dont just assume. I hope you manage to work it out and you do right to further your career. I am a big believer in everything happens for a reason so chill out, enjoy the life you have for now. It will all come right in the end.

Thanks; she says there's no one else, and other than my earlier reason for wondering I had no reason to believe it was happening. I just look forward to having her with me, even if it's for lunch, dinner, or a "date." I think we need to take some time off from having the kids and just spend some time with each other. We used to have a great time together and I do miss those days, or rather, miss the time we spent together.

sully123 · Jan 27, 2009, 03:24 PM

Greatbignow, don't set yourself up for dissappointment. I don't think she is coming to visit, to make your marriage work. She wants to talk. She wouldn't be asking you to take the cat, if that was her intentions. I don't understand, you say you were a good Dad and took care of your children. Well so far, I am not seeing that. You haven't seen your kids in quite awhile now. IT doesn't seem like their your priority. Yes, she was your wife and still is, but you keep on going back to her, not the kids. You say you love your children and they are important to you, what I see in your paragraph above you want to spend time away from the kids and be with her. That's not someone who want's the best for their kids, to me, that's thinking of yourself. Your setting yourself up to get hurt again.

GirlWSlingshot · Jan 27, 2009, 03:27 PM

Originally Posted by sully123

Greatbignow, don't set yourself up for dissappointment. I don't think she is coming to visit, to make your marriage work. She wants to talk. She wouldn't be asking you to take the cat, if that was her intentions. I don't understand, you say you were a good Dad and took care of your children. Well so far, I am not seeing that. You haven't seen your kids in quite awhile now. IT doesn't seem like their your priority. Yes, she was your wife and still is, but you keep on going back to her, not the kids. You say you love your children and they are important to me, what I see in your paragraph above you want to spend time away from the kids and be with her. That's not someone who want's the best for their kids, to me, that's thinking of yourself. Your setting yourself up to get hurt again.

Have you read the whole thread? There's a bit more to all of the above.

asking · Jan 27, 2009, 03:30 PM

I think Sully makes a point though.

He can spend time with his wife and also spend some time with the kids while she does other things. It doesn't have to be either or.

GirlWSlingshot · Jan 27, 2009, 03:37 PM

Good point Asking... It might be an idea to keep the two separate concepts while he courts his wife though. At this point, his relationship with his wife should not change his relationship with his children. Even if he cannot see them everyday, that doesn't change the fact that he's their father and they need him.

greatbignow · Jan 28, 2009, 07:32 AM

Originally Posted by sully123

Greatbignow, don't set yourself up for dissappointment. I don't think she is coming to visit, to make your marriage work. She wants to talk. She wouldn't be asking you to take the cat, if that was her intentions. I don't understand, you say you were a good Dad and took care of your children. Well so far, I am not seeing that. You haven't seen your kids in quite awhile now. IT doesn't seem like their your priority. Yes, she was your wife and still is, but you keep on going back to her, not the kids. You say you love your children and they are important to you, what I see in your paragraph above you want to spend time away from the kids and be with her. That's not someone who want's the best for their kids, to me, that's thinking of yourself. Your setting yourself up to get hurt again.

I haven't been up to see my kids due to financial reasons. The money simply has not been there. Yes, I'm wanting to spend time with her because that was part of the problem. She didn't feel like we had a marital-grade relationship. She doesn't just want to talk. She said that in addition to discussing these issues, she wants to go out and have a good time for a bit because "troubles have a way of multiplying." No, I don't want to get set up to be hurt again either, but these sound positive to me and I'm going to see how things go. My relationship with my children isn't what needed work; my relationship with my wife did and does. It was more like a business where we raised the children and worked (my wife's view which I concede to); there was little going on romantically or emotionally between the two of us. Sounds to me like she wants to come down and both discuss some things AND spend time with me. Maybe I can change from being a grouchy old man...

greatbignow · Jan 28, 2009, 07:36 AM

Here's the last email she sent... along with what I sent to get that response. Sounds to me like she's saying it was a desperate response but that "that's all it was." She wants to discuss why she wanted to get away and all she wanted to escape was the complaining.

You know, it just occurred to me that I also messed up with something else. When you were staying out late with your friends all the time, I should have read between the lines and tried to see WHY you didn't want to come home instead of complaining about WHAT you were doing. Maybe had I taken care of business at home and tried to work on our relationship and see what YOU needed & wanted it might have been different. If you ever give me another chance please know that I'd try to make you as happy as possible instead of complaining, and try to be the husband you needed me to be. Danielle Harford

January 26 at 4:09pm
THANK YOU!! I wasn't out doing anything bad. I just wanted to be away from the constant ing and complaining. It made me feel sick to be there. I just wanted to escape. That was all it was. I will be down soon. Perhaps we can nicely discuss this.?

talaniman · Jan 28, 2009, 07:46 AM

You better be a good listener, learn when to shut up, and pay attention. Don't try to fix a darn thing, just listen.

greatbignow · Jan 28, 2009, 07:49 AM

Originally Posted by talaniman

You better be a good listener, learn when to shut up, and pay attention. Don't try to fix a darn thing, just listen.

I can be, and I will be.

greatbignow · Jan 28, 2009, 08:29 AM

Quick excerpt from a book review about relationships and parenting.

"While we may reach this conclusion from very different perspectives at times, what we both agree on is that sex matters... a lot. [main emphasis of mine: Parents can give their children everything, but nothing is a substitute for parental happiness. And in our opinion, sex is the glue that holds couples together and keeps lovers from simply becoming roommates or co-parents (co-parents are what my wife and I had become)]. It's also the good sticky stuff that dries up if left alone for too long. So here we are to help you keep things fluid out there, to take the charge out this once taboo issue, and put the charge back where it should be — in the bedroom."

Excerpted from "Love in the Time of Colic" by Ian Kerner, PhD, and Heidi Raykeli. Copyright (c) 2009 by Kerner-Rubisch, Inc. and Heidi Raykeil. Reprinted with permission from HarperCollins.

greatbignow · Jan 28, 2009, 10:10 AM

Originally Posted by GirlWSlingshot

Good point Asking... It might be an idea to keep the two separate concepts while he courts his wife though. At this point, his relationship with his wife should not change his relationship with his children. Even if he cannot see them everyday, that doesn't change the fact that he's their father and they need him.

Yes, of course I'm their father but I have to disagree that the relationship doesn't change with your children... when you're not living with them everyday, it DOES change, and not for the better. Especially concerning my teenage step-daughter (whom I've raised since she was 1), it wouldn't surpise me to see that she questions my authority and such. The younger two maybe not so much, but they're 8 and 10. We'll see how this weekend goes.

sully123 · Jan 28, 2009, 02:03 PM

Originally Posted by talaniman

You better be a good listener, learn when to shut up, and pay attention. Don't try to fix a darn thing, just listen.

I agree with Tal, listen!

sully123 · Jan 28, 2009, 02:05 PM

Originally Posted by greatbignow

Yes, of course I'm their father but I have to disagree that the relationship doesn't change with your children...when you're not living with them everyday, it DOES change, and not for the better. Especially concerning my teenage step-daughter (whom I've raised since she was 1), it wouldn't surpise me to see that she questions my authority and such. The younger two maybe not so much, but they're 8 and 10. We'll see how this weekend goes.

It's up to you to change things with your children, and it can be for the better! They can have two loving parents, in two separate households. It's what you make of it.

greatbignow · Jan 28, 2009, 03:33 PM

Originally Posted by sully123

It's up to you to change things with your children, and it can be for the better! They can have two loving parents, in two separate households. It's what you make of it.

I don't consider divorce a viable option. As long as my wife signals that she might be willing to talk and/or work this out, I'm going to be there for her and try to stay married. I haven't heard from her since those last messages on Monday, but they sounded hopeful to me. My only concern is that I might have misunderstood or miscontrued them. However, that's why I posted them on this board; in that manner, I've had other people & professionals looking at them with a new set of eyes. I'm assuming that my interpretation matches that of the board? She sounds willing to talk and try to work this out; at least discuss our issues? Also, I figure if she didn't want to spend the night with me and go out to dinner/date she would have made it pointedly clear. Instead, she's offering what appears to be a possibility. I plan on listening and showing her that I love her in whatever appropriate way presents itself.

One thing that will be of value is her expression when I first see her. If she smiles and appears "warm" then it's likely she misses me as well and we might have a good chance at discussing these issues. I just want my wife and children back, and I'm going to do everything reasonable to help facilitate that.

greatbignow · Jan 29, 2009, 08:24 AM

I spoke with my wife and children last night for over an hour. At first it was business and the children (their power has been out for 3 days due to an ice storm and it won't be reconnected for another 3-4 days; she's had some time to sit and think about things), but then we started talking about our relationship and issues. She made it perfectly clear that she grew resentful & hateful primarily as a result of my lack of physical intimacy with her. Wow, sexual frustration really does come to play in this situation... she has always been a "lively" woman when it comes to that activity, but I didn't think it could break our marriage. So, we'll see what happens this weekend; if it goes well then I might be warmer at night :-).

Wondergirl · Jan 29, 2009, 11:10 AM

Originally Posted by greatbignow

if it goes well then I might be warmer at night :-).

Perhaps it should be "I might be warmer at night, if it goes well then." Even better (without the wheeling and dealing) is "I will put fun and excitement and sexual energy into our marriage from here on -- and will regularly ask my new friends on AMHD for ideas."

asking · Jan 29, 2009, 12:11 PM

Originally Posted by greatbignow

I don't consider divorce a viable option. As long as my wife signals that she might be willing to talk and/or work this out, I'm going to be there for her and try to stay married. I haven't heard from her since those last messages on Monday, but they sounded hopeful to me. My only concern is that I might have misunderstood or miscontrued them. However, that's why I posted them on this board; in that manner, I've had other people & professionals looking at them with a new set of eyes. I'm assuming that my interpretation matches that of the board? She sounds willing to talk and try to work this out; at least discuss our issues? Also, I figure if she didn't want to spend the night with me and go out to dinner/date she would have made it pointedly clear. Instead, she's offering what appears to be a possibility. I plan on listening and showing her that I love her in whatever appropriate way presents itself.

One thing that will be of value is her expression when I first see her. If she smiles and appears "warm" then it's likely she misses me as well and we might have a good chance at discussing these issues. I just want my wife and children back, and I'm going to do everything reasonable to help facilitate that.

Just to be clear, no I don't agree with this. If you think the message board is supporting your interpretation, I, for one, am not.

I think you are reading too much into too little, and over the last few days you have let yourself run away with it.

I don't think that because she didn't rule things out, that she has therefore committed to doing them or is even very open to them. I feel like you are not listening to her words, which have been that she does not think it's likely that you two will get back together. If you ascribe all this intent to her without her having said any of it and you then either overwhelm her and draw her back in against her better judgement because she wants to get along or you get upset when she says no to any of your current hopes, then you are not listening to her and respecting what she has said to you. It's like you are letting your interpretation of what you think she ought to be saying supercede what she has really said. You need to get out of her head and let her think her own thoughts and tell you what she wants to say. She doesn't need you to do that for her.

I think you need to massively rein in your expectations and show more respect for the process.

Her exact expression when you meet is NOT the key to the rest of your life. If she looks down, it may be for a hundred reasons unrelated to you--bad traffic, bad news unrelated to you. If she looks warm, don't assume that means you are back on as married. This is a separate person; please stop thinking you know everything she's feeling. Also, it's normal for people married a long time to have habits of warmth at times. That's not diagnostic of your future together.

Reduce expectations of this meeting, give her space, stop trying to read her mind. Instead, hear and acknowledge what she's actually saying to you.

PS. That's not to say you shouldn't be positive and warm. But if you really want her back, let her decide what she is saying and, importantly, what she wants to do. Don't assume anything.

greatbignow · Jan 29, 2009, 12:47 PM

Originally Posted by asking

Just to be clear, no I don't agree with this. If you think the message board is supporting your interpretation, I, for one, am not.

I think you are reading too much into too little, and over the last few days you have let yourself run away with it.

I don't think that because she didn't rule things out, that she has therefore committed to doing them or is even very open to them. I feel like you are not listening to her words, which have been that she does not think it's likely that you two will get back together. If you ascribe all this intent to her without her having said any of it and you then either overwhelm her and draw her back in against her better judgement because she wants to get along or you get upset when she says no to any of your current hopes, then you are not listening to her and respecting what she has said to you. It's like you are letting your interpretation of what you think she ought to be saying supercede what she has really said. You need to get out of her head and let her think her own thoughts and tell you what she wants to say. She doesn't need you to do that for her.

I think you need to massively rein in your expectations and show more respect for the process.

Her exact expression when you meet is NOT the key to the rest of your life. If she looks down, it may be for a hundred reasons unrelated to you--bad traffic, bad news unrelated to you. If she looks warm, don't assume that means you are back on as married. This is a separate person; please stop thinking you know everything she's feeling. Also, it's normal for people married a long time to have habits of warmth at times. That's not diagnostic of your future together.

Reduce expectations of this meeting, give her space, stop trying to read her mind. Instead, hear and acknowledge what she's actually saying to you.

PS. That's not to say you shouldn't be positive and warm. But if you really want her back, let her decide what she is saying and, importantly, what she wants to do. Don't assume anything.

Thanks for the feedback; last night I mainly listened to her for a while and wanted to make completely sure that I wasn't taking her emails out of context or misinterpreting them. Yes, she does indeed want to see how the weekend goes and we spoke about our relationship at length. She's open to discussing it and having a good time together. I mostly listened, as I said I would.