[NeedKarma]

What the pope or Jesus says and what Catholics do are often very different.

[tomder55]

What the pope or Jesus says and what Catholics do are often very different.

Correct ;too many Catholics are progressives /socialists .

[speechlesstx]

What the pope or Jesus says and what Catholics do are often very different.

Just look at Obama for instance. Are you under some impression that hypocrisy is exclusive to Christians?

[Wondergirl]

Hmmm, there is now an island-wide all-schools choir competition, but that's all I could find. No bake sales.

[NeedKarma]

Are you under some impression that hypocrisy is exclusive to Christians?

Absolutely not. We agree!

[NeedKarma]

too many Catholics are progressives /socialists

Jesus was the first socialist... and he was very progressive.

[speechlesstx]

Jesus was the first socialist...and he was very progressive.

Jesus was not a socialist and that's not the topic.

[NeedKarma]

Then you better sh!t on Tom then.

[Wondergirl]

Jesus was not a socialist and that's not the topic.

Mark 10:21: Jesus looked at him and loved him. "One thing you lack," he said. "Go, sell everything you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.”

[speechlesstx]

Then you better sh!t on Tom then.

Tom said "too many Catholics are progressives /socialists", not Jesus was a socialist.

[tomder55]

In Matthew 6, Jesus instructs his disciples to give to the needy only in secret so one's philanthropy is not seen by men. He warned them that if they displayed their charity in public, they would not receive their heavenly reward.

Jesus was not a socialist or a progressive . He was an infallible, perfected being.

[speechlesstx]

Mark 10:21: Jesus looked at him and loved him. "One thing you lack," he said. "Go, sell everything you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.”

Do you really want to debate the bible with me? Start another thread.

a) Socialism is a political philosophy. Jesus did not espouse or practice any political philosophy, he emphatically stated His kingdom was not of this world.

b) Jesus asked the man to make a personal sacrifice. Nowhere did Jesus, or the early church, espouse communal ownership or cite the government as the means by which to distribute "charity" to the poor and needy - only to "render what was due" as an honorable citizen.

[Wondergirl]

Nowhere did the early church espouse communal ownership

Acts 2:44-45: 44 Now all who believed were together, and had all things in common, 45 and sold their possessions and goods, and divided them among all, as anyone had need.

Acts 4:32 Now the multitude of those who believed were of one heart and one soul; neither did anyone say that any of the things he possessed was his own, but they had all things in common.

NKJV

[speechlesstx]

Acts 2:44-45: 44 Now all who believed were together, and had all things in common, 45 and sold their possessions and goods, and divided them among all, as anyone had need.

Acts 4:32 Now the multitude of those who believed were of one heart and one soul; neither did anyone say that any of the things he possessed was his own, but they had all things in common.

NKJV

That was predictable.

This was a voluntary phenomenon to care for each other's needs, they shared with others as if it were their own. It is always about GIVING voluntarily in the bible.

Again, there is nowhere in the bible where Jesus or the church espouse communal ownership or cite the government as the means by which to distribute "charity" to the poor and needy - only to "render what was due" as an honorable citizen.

But thanks, at least you and NK are demonstrating the same lack of understanding of the church and its mission as Obama which tells me what I need to know.

[NeedKarma]

1 John 3:17
But if anyone has the world's goods and sees his brother in need, yet closes his heart against him, how does God's love abide in him?


Luke 3:11
And he answered them, “Whoever has two tunics is to share with him who has none, and whoever has food is to do likewise.”

Matthew 6:24
“No one can serve two masters, for either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and money.

Luke 1:49-53
For he who is mighty has done great things for me, and holy is his name. And his mercy is for those who fear him from generation to generation. He has shown strength with his arm; he has scattered the proud in the thoughts of their hearts; he has brought down the mighty from their thrones and exalted those of humble estate; he has filled the hungry with good things, and the rich he has sent away empty.

[speechlesstx]

1 John 3:17
But if anyone has the world's goods and sees his brother in need, yet closes his heart against him, how does God's love abide in him?


Luke 3:11
And he answered them, “Whoever has two tunics is to share with him who has none, and whoever has food is to do likewise.”

Matthew 6:24
“No one can serve two masters, for either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and money.

Luke 1:49-53
For he who is mighty has done great things for me, and holy is his name. And his mercy is for those who fear him from generation to generation. He has shown strength with his arm; he has scattered the proud in the thoughts of their hearts; he has brought down the mighty from their thrones and exalted those of humble estate; he has filled the hungry with good things, and the rich he has sent away empty.

How does that prove Jesus was a socialist or espoused socialism? All of these are encompassed by his command to love God and love others. That is what follows if you keep those commandments, you care for the needs of others from a willing heart, not forced redistribution.

[speechlesstx]

P.S. You two are doing exactly what Tut and Wondergirl complained of, "cherry picking" I believe she called it - aka proof-texting.

Many ministers and teachers have used some version of the following humorous anecdote to demonstrate the dangers of prooftexting: "A man dissatisfied with his life decided to consult the Bible for guidance. Closing his eyes, he flipped the book open and pointed to a spot on the page. Opening his eyes, he read the verse under his finger. It read, "Then Judas went away and hanged himself" (Matthew 27:5b) Closing his eyes again, the man randomly selected another verse. This one read, "Jesus told him, 'Go and do likewise.'" (Luke 10:37b)"[6]

[Wondergirl]

P.S. You two are doing exactly what Tut and Wondergirl complained of, "cherry picking"

KJV -- Matthew 7
1 Judge not, that ye be not judged.

2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.

3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?

[speechlesstx]

KJV --Matthew 7
1 Judge not, that ye be not judged.

2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.

3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?

"Hypocrite! First remove the plank from your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye."

See, you were cherry-picking again.

[NeedKarma]

Kind of like the cherry-picking that started this thread. More hypocrisy.