[speechlesstx]

You DID, however, hit the nail on the head with your post.... YOU, like smoothy, can't tell the difference between Muslims and fanatics. That's not good.

Don't compare me to Smoothy.

I know the difference between Muslims and Muslim fanatics, it's the Muslims apologists who don't. This aversion to calling Muslim fanatics Muslim fanatics makes you look kind of like one of those Muslim apologists I'm talking about. You know, the guys that come crawling out the woodwork like ants defending Muslims that haven't attacked against people who haven't attacked them.

[excon]

We see a difference....its the left that can't. They have spent decades fighting anything that hints of christianity who have no "Rights" apparently...

Hello again, smoothy:

I don't know who this mythical left is that you keep arguing with. It's not ME for sure. I'd like to take you on, but I don't represent anybody but ME, and I haven't heard ANYBODY arguing the points you're arguing with. Personally, being a BELIEVER in the First Amendment, as I KNOW you KNOW that I am, Christians have quite a few rights in this country, and I have supported EVERY one of them. If you want to go back and find posts where I didn't, we can talk about that.

Now, it's difficult for me to grasp how you can come up with "They however are quick to back anything Muslims want to do as it being their "right"", from our conversations we've had here. But, you do, and you're still going to do it no matter what is said to you, and no matter what facts are presented to you.

So, if you want to take an actual position I HOLD, and articulate how it's incorrect, then I'll argue with you... But, you can't, and you won't. You'd rather spout your talking points. By the way, I'm the guy that FIRST accused YOU of arguing with talking points. Then, without the slightest hesitation or embarrassment, you say the same thing to me... You're something else...

excon

[excon]

I'm sorry, Steve. I don't, and haven't ever apologized for "cowardly fanatics".

it's the Muslims apologists who don't. This aversion to calling Muslim fanatics Muslim fanatics makes you look kinda like one of those Muslim apologists I'm talking about.

Hello again, Steve:

How can I NOT compare you to smoothy? He makes up stuff and argues with it. So do you.

What part of "cowardly fanatics" sounds like an apology? What part of "cowardly fanatics" sounds like I'm NOT calling them "cowardly fanatics"?

Why is your pot so much better than mine?

excon

[speechlesstx]

Hello again, Steve:

How can I NOT compare you to smoothy? He makes up stuff and argues with it. So do you.

I don't make things up, ex. You ought ta know by now I can generally back things up with facts. It's like clockwork, if a conservative criticizes Muslim fanatics, voices an opinion that a mosque shouldn't be built near the site that Muslims killed 3,000 people in the name of Islam or say a Christian fanatic has the right to burn a Koran, the Muslim apologists crawl out of the woodwork to tell us to stop judging ALL Muslims. They come out at Huffpo, KOS, and all over the news shows.

I haven't judged all Muslims, now or ever, so stop judging me as the Muslim apologists do, and judge the Muslims that sent this cartoonist into hiding instead.

[smoothy]

Hello again, smoothy:

I don't know who this mythical left is that you keep arguing with. It's not ME for sure. I'd like to take you on, but I don't represent anybody but ME, and I haven't heard ANYBODY arguing the points you're arguing with. Personally, being a BELIEVER in the First Amendment, as I KNOW you KNOW that I am, Christians have quite a few rights in this country, and I have supported EVERY one of them. If you want to go back and find posts where I didn't, we can talk about that.

Now, it's difficult for me to grasp how you can come up with "They however are quick to back anything Muslims want to do as it being their "right"", from our conversations we've had here. But, you do, and you're still going to do it no matter what is said to you, and no matter what facts are presented to you.

So, if you want to take an actual position I HOLD, and articulate how it's incorrect, then I'll argue with you.... But, you can't, and you won't. You'd rather spout your talking points. By the way, I'm the guy that FIRST accused YOU of arguing with talking points. Then, without the slightest hesitation or embarrassment, you say the same thing to me... You're something else....

excon

You are part of the "Left" and its not a all Mythical.. Its no more MYTHICAL in fact than the RIGHT. Its no more MYTHICAL than liberalism... which IS a left of center belief system.

You have in fact in argued against References to Christ in any public school or government celibration of Christman... or Easter.

You have been among those that have opposed evena voluntary group prayer of sport events, and in fact a simple Google search will present page after page of attacks on Christianity by the left over the last 40+ years. Now that same left who spewed such hatred against Christian principles are the same one arguing how Muslims have the right to protections against ANY person or group that may offend them in any way.

Funny how Christian values are such a thing to be hated by liberals and yet, they Embrace the people who HAVE been trying to force Sharia law on us... and it obscene things it calls for based on the Quran... here are 10 that Liberal women really need to know, since the Quran is such a book of Peace... And just the top 10 that apply to how they view women...

Top 10 Quran quotes every woman MUST SEE


Tell every woman you know about these verses. The oppression of women that Islam advocates is not only disturbing, but is direct contrast with everything that Western civilization stands for when it comes to the rights of women.

These are referenced from an article published from the American Thinker in 2005. Each one goes into much greater detail if you are interested in reading more on each verse. The article is here: Top 10 rules in the Quran that oppress women

10. A husband has sex with his wife, as a plow goes into a field.

The Quran in Sura (Chapter) 2:223 says:

Your women are your fields, so go into your fields whichever way you like . . . . (MAS Abdel Haleem, The Qur'an, Oxford UP, 2004)

9. Husbands are a degree above their wives.

The Quran in Sura 2:228 says:

. . . Wives have the same rights as the husbands have on them in accordance with the generally known principles. Of course, men are a degree above them in status . . . (Sayyid Abul A'La Maududi, The Meaning of the Qur'an, vol. 1, p. 165)

8. A male gets a double share of the inheritance over that of a female.

The Quran in Sura 4:11 says:

The share of the male shall be twice that of a female . . . . (Maududi, vol. 1, p. 311)

7. A woman's testimony counts half of a man's testimony.

The Quran in Sura 2:282 says:

And let two men from among you bear witness to all such documents [contracts of loans without interest]. But if two men be not available, there should be one man and two women to bear witness so that if one of the women forgets (anything), the other may remind her. (Maududi, vol. 1, p. 205).

6. A wife may remarry her ex—husband if and only if she marries another man and then this second man divorces her.

The Quran in Sura 2:230 says:

And if the husband divorces his wife (for the third time), she shall not remain his lawful wife after this (absolute) divorce, unless she marries another husband and the second husband divorces her. [In that case] there is no harm if they [the first couple] remarry . . . . (Maududi, vol. 1, p. 165)

5. Slave—girls are sexual property for their male owners.

The Quran in Sura 4:24 says:

And forbidden to you are wedded wives of other people except those who have fallen in your hands [as prisoners of war] . . . (Maududi, vol. 1, p. 319).

4. A man may be polygamous with up to four wives.

The Quran in Sura 4:3 says:

And if you be apprehensive that you will not be able to do justice to the orphans, you may marry two or three or four women whom you choose. But if you apprehend that you might not be able to do justice to them, then marry only one wife, or marry those who have fallen in your possession. (Maududi, vol. 1, p. 305)

3. A husband may simply get rid of one of his undesirable wives.

The Quran in Sura 4:129 says:

It is not within your power to be perfectly equitable in your treatment with all your wives, even if you wish to be so; therefore, [in order to satisfy the dictates of Divine Law] do not lean towards one wife so as to leave the other in a state of suspense. (Maududi, vol. 1, p. 381)

2. Husbands may hit their wives even if the husbands merely fear highhandedness in their wives (quite apart from whether they actually are highhanded).

The Quran in Sura 4:34 says:

4:34 . . . If you fear highhandedness from your wives, remind them [of the teaching of God], then ignore them when you go to bed, then hit them. If they obey you, you have no right to act against them. God is most high and great. (Haleem, emphasis added)

1. Mature men are allowed to marry prepubescent girls.

The Quran in Sura 65:1, 4 says:

65:1 O Prophet, when you [and the believers] divorce women, divorce them for their prescribed waiting—period and count the waiting—period accurately . . . 4 And if you are in doubt about those of your women who have despaired of menstruation, (you should know that) their waiting period is three months, and the same applies to those who have not menstruated as yet. As for pregnant women, their period ends when they have delivered their burden. (Maududi, vol. 5, pp. 599 and 617, emphasis added)


Top 10 Quran quotes every woman MUST SEE
Of course... the fact that they WILL and ARE imposing Sharia on Europe using the DNC talking points of incrimentalism since an all at once approcach would raise opjections... thats how the DNC has worked for decades... common knowledge to those willing to see what's happening.

Feisal Abdul Rauf... HAS publicly called for Sharia law in the USA.

Sharia IS Islam... you worry about bibble thumpers Celibrating a holiday and are completely willing to give up all of your rights to live under Sharia...

Islam is not simply a Religion... its a lot like Communism in that they dictate every part of your life... from WHO you can whorship to when, to who you can martry to what you can do in the bedroom, eat... everything about your life.

You call it talking points... I call it Reality the left wants to ignore... or worse chooses to ignore.

Abundent proof of this is EASY to find... but since you ONLY believe what the DNC commands you to believe...

You have been proven wrong time and time again... you repeat the same things that every other liberal repeats... almost word for word.

If the Left doesn't issue talking points of what to say, then exactly how can every left leaning media source (and supposedly independent from each other) use the same words taking the same stance in a matter of an hour of an event? If they weren't repeating verbaitum what they were told to say.

Yeah... I don't doubt YOU believe in the first amendment... it all in how you interpret it...

The Left feels free to say anything you want... but look at how they talk about Fox news.. the Tea Part... the Christian Faith... heaven forbid THEY say anything...

After all its Democrats that proposed the laughably names " Fairness Doctirine" which is anything BUT fair. It's the lefts attempt to shut down the rights radio and TV broadcasts while exempting the left dominated Newpapers, TV, etc... Left wing NPR that getts kept on life support with tax dollars. No such program for Right wing media.

But then... its clear you would rather just shout down anyone that disagrees with what you proclaim everyone HAS to believe... or they are somehow not being reasonible... or rational...

The left in general fought in court for the RIGHT to burn the American flag as a RIGHT. And they are the very same people who threatened and mocked a pastor that wanted to burn a book.. and made a HUGE deal out of nothing.


Funny... the left despises Christians so much... yet where was the Christian riots, and death threats over the Lefts lawsuit to prohibit a Cross in the Mohave Desert? We all know what the Muslims did over just the threat to burn a book... acted like a bunch of idiots and uncivilized animals...


THe left wing kook, that made the Crap cross of jesus being crucified and called it art... did the vatican send a hit squad calling for their death, much less actually kill them? Nope...

How about a few instances about A mohammed Cartoon... you know where MUSLIMS assassinated the artist...

How about the recent case of a journalist having a draw mohammed contest... that never actually even happened... that due to death threats had to be taken in to protective custofy with the FBI and is in witness protection now... and that's in the last couple weeks.

Here is the link...

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2010/09/16...t-goes-hiding/

More proof of how Loving and kind Islam is when you have THAT.

You want to defend that bunch of lunatics that make death threats at Americans? Oh, sure not ALL Muslims are ready to kill Americans... with 1.5 billions followers you obviously can find some that don't agree with everything. BUt statistically the threat is huge... and numbers have been posted by the Pew polls that is NOT a right wing poll and percentages of Muslims supporting terrorism almost matches the total population of the USA. Its NOT a handfull of idiots we are talking about.

You can't offend a single Muslim in the world according to the left... but its fine for them to insult every American with a Victory Mosque at ground Zero which WILL be an offence every day its allowed to exist assuming its ever built. JUst arguing about building it is a major offence to Americans.

Its fine for them to make death threats at Americans for exercising their freedomn of speech..

Again... its not a "Handfull" of Muslims guilty of this when there are riots in the street.


And yes... I do believe there are some things that are indefensible.

Genocide is one... and Islam having RIGHTS over Americans rights is another.

AS well as Islams ongoing attempts to destroy Isreal (Hamas and Hezbolah ARE Islamic supported terror groups, they don't exist in a vacuum).

A ground Zero Victory mosque is another.

THere are others... but these are high on the list.

[Wondergirl]

argued against References to Christ in any public school or government celibration of Christman...or Easter.

And I, as a Christian Republican, will also argue against Muslim or Jewish or Scientologist or Hindu or Buddhist or Shinto or Taoist or whatever religion's references or statues or plaques or icons or altars or holiday decorations in any public school or government locations.

No one is stopping a public school student from whispering a quiet prayer to Jesus or the Buddha or Ganesh or John Travolta or the Virgin Mary or Blaise Pascal before a test.

[smoothy]

And I, as a Christian Republican, will also argue against Muslim or Jewish or Scientologist or Hindu or Buddhist or Shinto or Taoist or whatever religion's references or statues or plaques or icons or altars or holiday decorations in any public school or government locations.

No one is stopping a public school student from whispering a quiet prayer to Jesus or the Buddha or Ganesh or John Travolta or the Virgin Mary or Blaise Pascal before a test.

Ah... but they are, the left has fought against a "moment of silence" which is completely free on any particular leaning.. or religion. Yes we had those when I was in Jr & Sr High school. My memories of elementery school are fuzzy enough to not be sure if we had actual prayers then or not. Latter half of the 1960's.

And they can teach politically correct hooey about Islam... but mention Christianity (even in the context of history) and the lawsuits fly.

And it does come right back to the premise... Islam isn't simply a religion. It is a totalitarian regime in every aspect. And its completely in conflict with the Constitution AND the bill or rights.

[Wondergirl]

Ah...but they are, the The left has fought against a "moment of silence" which is completely free on any particular leaning.. or religion.

"A moment of silence" is a coercion, a forcing of students to do something. A student whispering or mouthing a prayer to his deity is perfectly acceptable.

In my NC public grade school during the early '50s we memorized Bible verses and said prayers out loud. We also had to relearn the Pledge when "under God" was added.

[smoothy]

"A moment of silence" is a coercion, a forcing of students to do something. A student whispering or mouthing a prayer to his deity is perfectly acceptable.

In my NC public grade school during the early '50s we memorized Bible verses and said prayers out loud. We also had to relearn the Pledge when "under God" was added.

Really, a moment of Silence to you qualifies as Coercion? Forcing them to do nothing... you mean like forcing them to do homework, take tests... attend class? Lunk forces them to eat even if they don't want to... then they have all that free time they are forced to take even if they do eat. Forced to take gym class even iff they would rather use a playstation... etc.

Then exactly what would you call a school field trip AT A BOSTON PUBLIC SCHOOL dragging students to a mosque on taxpayers money during school hours using schools busses, where parents were not even informed..

It was caught on video...

Public School Field Trip: Inside Video Captures Kids Bowing to Allah


Massachusetts, | BOSTON, Sept. 16 | Video Shows Public Middle School Boys Joining Muslim Men In Prayer at Controversial, Saudi-Funded Boston Mosque | The Herald - Rock Hill, SC


School Trip to ?Moderate? Mosque: Inside Video Captures Kids Bowing to Allah

If a moment of silence is coercion, then that is liberal Teachers committing Kidnapping, misappropriation of school funds and taxpayer money. On TOP of violating the Civil rights of christians that want nothing to do with Islam or their kids in or near a mosque.

Really, how is dragging non-muslim kids to a mosque for some more propaganda brainwashing acceptable if they can't mention Christ in an assembly during a christian holiday at the same school that dragged them there?

Being this is a BOSTON PUBLIC school, its clearly NOT a bunch of conservatives violating the constitution there. Boston would be happy if it was moved to Berkley, Where is the huge uproar from the anti-christianity in school (freedom FROM religion) crowd?

I bet if they were taken to see the Pope... they would be raising holy hell about it.

[Wondergirl]

Really, a moment of Silence to you qualifies as Coercion?

Yup. If it's required and unnecessary and useless, 95% of the students won't honor it (or want to, because it's stupid).

If you were 12 or 13 again, what would you be doing during a required, legally mandated moment of silence?

[smoothy]

Yup. If it's required and unnecessary and useless, 95% of the students won't honor it (or want to, because it's stupid).

If you were 12 or 13 again, what would you be doing during a required, legally mandated moment of silence?

You didn't answer the part about the Public school fieldtrip to the mosque without parental permission during school hours. Its on video... they can't claim it never happened.

How does dragging kids OFF school property during school hours without parental Permission compare in any way to a moment of silince. What if there was an accident? WHat right does a public school have of forcing Islam on students.

You CAN make kids shut up in the classroom... even if they stare at the wall for a minute, how is that any different... its not stupid... its called discipline, something sadly lacking from 99% of school kids the last 30+ years.



So... answer how THIS is acceptable?

http://bigpeace.com/cjacobs/2010/09/...wing-to-allah/

http://www.heraldonline.com/2010/09/...le-school.html

http://www.peaceandtolerance.org/ind...ents&Itemid=39

[paraclete]

What, if anything, does this have to do with endangering the troops?
Will they be endangered if school children visit a mosque?
Will the muslims turn aside from their war because a few kids visit a mosque?

[smoothy]

What, if anything, does this have to do with endangering the troops?
Will they be endangered if school children visit a mosque?
Will the muslims turn aside from their war because a few kids visit a mosque?

Just as much as over half of what is in this thread has to do with it

So, what exactly have the muslims been doing the last 10 years... the last 1,300 years for that matter, Hosting out troops for afternoon tea and Kabobs?

And explain how exactly is a Koran or 2 being burned going to change anything they have been doing all along?

Did they get a Gypsy to look in a Crystal ball in the 1970's and tell them someone was going to threaten to burn a Koran in 2010 so they embarked on a campaign to kill westerners oh... for the last 30 years?

[Wondergirl]

You didn't answer the part about the Public school fieldtrip to the mosque without parental permission during school hours. Its on video... they can't claim it never happened.

I don't know about the lack of parental permission. Will research it.

WHat right does a public school have of forcing Islam on students.

It was a social studies class, and kids were kids trying out what happens in a mosque. Islam was forced on the kids?

You CAN make kids shut up in the classroom... even if they stare at the wall for a minute

Glad you weren't MY teacher. What a useless way to discipline. I suppose you made your own kids face the wall with noses touching it and while standing on their tiptoes?

[smoothy]

I don't know about the lack of parental permission. Will research it.

It was a social studies class, and kids were kids trying out what happens in a mosque. Islam was forced on the kids?

Glad you weren't MY teacher. What a useless way to discipline. I suppose you made your own kids face the wall with noses touching it and while standing on their tiptoes?

If it was a minor case of acting up in class... if it was a bad offense they would have gotten paddled.


And yeah... THAT was a very effective deterant to misbehaving in school.

Guys that feared nothing else feared getting paddled in from of others.

People rarely smarted off to teachers when I was in school. I knew of and actually saw only two cases where studenets physically attacked a teacher... both cases there were big guys... and both times the kids got their butts kicked... in a very big way. On was by a teacher by reputation you did not cross... the other was a 5'8" 300 lb civics teacher, Saw him take a punch from a 6'4" football player then grab that player pick him up WWF style and body slam him to the concrete floor so hard it knocked the kid out.

Police hauled both those kids out of the school and they were never allowed to return.

Shame on you, or a time out isn't really effective on kids that don't have respect for the teachers.


SO... YOU are agrueing a 1 minute moment of silence is unconstitutional but forcing CHristian kids to go to a mosque... WITHOUT their parents permission or even with it is fine...

How about lets make the schools take Muslim kids to a Christian Church or a Jewish Temple and make them pray? I suppose THAT would be unconstitutional because Muslims are better than Christians... like they are taught in the Mosque.


And besides... THAT is clearly not the separation of Church and state something so very dear to the left to the extent kids can't even celibrate Christmas... they b*stardize it and call it "merry Xmas" and disallow any reference to Chist because that isn't allowed in school. But dragging them to a Mosque to feed them lies about Islam is OK? No wonder so few kids can read by the time they graduate these days. And incidentally I was reading College level in the 6th grade, not vice versa.

You are aware your logic on that is not at all consistent or logical on this topic. Unless you are asserting Islam = Good, Christianity & Judahism = bad.

[Wondergirl]

where parents were not even informed..

It was caught on video...

The parents signed permission slips.

It was filmed with permission by the Muslims.

[Wondergirl]

if it ws a bad offense they would have gotten paddled.

Thank God we're past those days!

[paraclete]

There is a disconnect here somewhere, you seem to have forgotten that after their expansionary period, the Muslims suffered defeats and were in retreat and decline until some modern twitts with dillusions aplenty gave them a target and a reason to get organised again.

Giving your enemies a reason to hate you is not a good idea, unless, of course, you are so full of confidence in your own ability to kill anything and everything that you don't care who you offend. That the Muslim resemble the Nazi with their emphasis in religious purity is not coincidental, nor is it coincidental that they have the same enemy as the Nazi, but we cannot use the Nazi solution to the solution of the Muslim question. Burning books is a not an answer, nor is warfare and extermination, but allowing these people to live in peace might be.

[Wondergirl]

What the Muslims told the 6th grade class is true. Women's status improved greatly with the rise of Islam. They could finally own property and vote, could inherit, and were allowed to seek education. Women couldn't vote in the U.S. under Washington (late 1700s) and Lincoln (mid 1800s).

[smoothy]

Thank God we're past those days!

Really... with the youth of today? I'd rather have the youth of yesterday. At least they could read and knew how to respect others.