[Tj3]

Tj3,
Yes I fully understand what conceived means.
Thank you.
Fred

Then are you saying that you believe God had a beginning?

[arcura]

Tj3,
NO!
I am not say9ng that.
God is eternal.
Don't try to twist my words again as you often do.
Just admit that you do not understand my belief that Mary IS the Mother of God the Son, the third person of the eternal triune God.
Peace and kindnesd,
Fred

[De Maria]

Then you must hold to the Mormon view that God had a beginning

The only way you can defeat Catholic doctrine is by twisting it. You know full well that God is eternal. But God willed to be conceived in Mary's womb.

Its in Scripture:
Luke 1 31 Behold thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and shalt bring forth a son; and thou shalt call his name Jesus. 32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the most High; and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of David his father; and he shall reign in the house of Jacob for ever.

So, its you against Scripture. Whom should I believe? I believe Scripture.

Sincerely,

De Maria

[arcura]

De Maria,
I also believe scripture and not Tj3.
I have not believed him since I met him on askme.com years ago.
Fred

[Tj3]

De Maria,
I also believe scripture and not Tj3.
I have not believed him since I met him on askme.com years ago.
Fred

Fred,

You never seem to understand. I have never asked you to believe me. I don't care if you believe me. That is why I go to God's word, and I hope that you will some day believe what it says!

[Tj3]

Tj3,
NO!
I am not say9ng that.
God is eternal.

Then there could never have been a time where God was conceived.

[Tj3]

The only way you can defeat Catholic doctrine is by twisting it.

I don't try to defeat Catholic doctrine. That is not my objective. My objective is to test all doctrine as the Bereans did and to see if it is true. Where any doctrine fails to align, then we will see that when we compare it to what god's word says.

You know full well that God is eternal.

I do indeed. I also know that God was from eternity past and at no time was conceived.

But God willed to be conceived in Mary's womb.

That is self contradictory. If a person wills to be conceived, then they are pre-existent and no conceived. To say that God was conceived is Mormon doctrine.

This is where your position becomes contradictory. That is because you fail to take into account the fact that God was not conceived, but that God was "manifested in the flesh" (1 Tim 3:16).

1 Tim 3:16
16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness:
God was manifested in the flesh,
Justified in the Spirit,
Seen by angels,
Preached among the Gentiles,
Believed on in the world,
Received up in glory.
NKJV

It is the flesh into which Giod was manifested which was conceived. Scripture nowhere says that God was conceived.

[arcura]

Tj3,
There are many things said in the bible that you DO believe.
It is sad that there are several things that the bible clearly says that you do not believe.
I hope that someday you will be able to speak with Jesus Chrsit's, God The Son's mother and answer her when she asks "Why do you not believe I am who I am, THE Mother of God the Son."
That hope says that I am hoping and praying that you do make it to heaven.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

[Tj3]

Tj3,
It is sad that there are several things that the bible clearly says that you do not believe.

Fred,

Making false accusations does not help your position one iota. If you wish to debate a point, then do so, but do so with honesty.

[sndbay]

Tj3,
There are many things said in the bible that you DO believe.
It is sad that there are several things that the bible clearly says that you do not believe.
I hope that someday you will be able to speak with Jesus Chrsit's, God The Son's mother and answer her when she asks "Why do you not believe I am who I am, THE Mother of God the Son."
That hope says that I am hoping and praying that you do make it to heaven.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

1 John 5:10-11He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son. And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.

Christ Born of God

1 John 5:1 Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth Him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of Him.

1 John 5:4 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.

1 Peter 1:19-21 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot: Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you, Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God.

Speaking the Truth, Christ Born by the Word of God Incorruptive From the Beginning

1 Peter 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

God is the Father of all who hear.. No favorites.. God loves all His children who follow Him..

Luke 8:21 And he answered and said unto them, My mother and my brethren are these which hear the word of God, and do it.

Show Honor, Praise and Glory to ONE..

The incorruptive seed of God was Christ Jesus... Mary was a virgin vessel used to carry the incorreuptible seed of God. She was blessed by God, and kept holy, thus clean.

[gromitt82]

When St. Elizabeth greets Mary the Mother of Jesus, she says:

Luke 1 43 And whence is this to me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me?

I believe she is recognizing that Jesus is God and therefore means Mother of my God.

What do you think she means?

... For behold as soon as the voice of thy salutation sounded in my ears, the infant in my womb leaped for joy. And blessed art thou that hast believed, because those things shall be accomplished that were spoken to thee by the Lord.

And Mary said: My soul doth magnify the Lord. And my spirit hath rejoiced in God my Saviour. Because he hath regarded the humility of his handmaid; for behold from henceforth all generations shall call me blessed. Because he that is mighty, hath done great things to me; and holy is his name. And his mercy is from generation unto generations, to them that fear him. He hath shewed might in his arm: he hath scattered the proud in the conceit of their heart. He hath put down the mighty from their seat, and hath exalted the humble. He hath filled the hungry with good things; and the rich he hath sent empty away. He hath received Israel his servant, being mindful of his mercy: As he spoke to our fathers, to Abraham and to his seed for ever.

And Mary abode with her about three months; and she returned to her own house. Now Elizabeth's full time of being delivered was come, and she brought forth a son...

Of course, Elisabeth recognized Mary to be the Mother of God, and so she was celebrating with humility that Mary had chosen to visit her. This is what is being celebrated in the Feast of the Visitation

[Tj3]

Of course, Elisabeth recognized Mary to be the Mother of God, and so she was celebrating with humility that Mary had chosen to visit her. This is what is being celebrated in the Feast of the Visitation

It is just as much an error to deny that Jesus is fully man as to deny that He is fully God. When men claim that Mary is mother of God, that effectively denioes that she was the vessel through whom God manifested in the flesh (1 Tim 3:16), and effectively denies the eternal pre-existence of God, and subsequently makes Mary a god.

[De Maria]

It is just as much an error to deny that Jesus is fully man as to deny that He is fully God. When men claim that Mary is mother of God, that effectively denioes that she was the vessel through whom God manifested in the flesh (1 Tim 3:16), and effectively denies the eternal pre-existence of God, and subsequently makes Mary a god.

Anyone who denies that Mary is the Mother of God, denies that Jesus is God.

A woman who adopts a son and gives him a bottle, changes his diaper, sits him on her lap and rocks him to sleep is considered that child's mother.

The woman who gave birth to the Son of God, suckled Him at her breast, and rocked Him to sleep is the Mother of God, because that child is God.

Sincerely,

De Maria

[arcura]

Tj3,
YOURS is the false accusation about me.
It has been show here repeatedly by many that you refuse to believe what the bible says about several things.
sndbay above has again shown you the truth from the bible that The Son of God was born of Mary.
You do not believe it. That is your choice.
As I said it is useless to discus it further with you.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

[Tj3]

Anyone who denies that Mary is the Mother of God, denies that Jesus is God.

That false accusation is getting pretty stale, especially since by doing so, you are accusing the overwhelming majority of Christian denominations as heretical. Nice try, but once again, I stick with what God's word says, and if you think it to be heretical, that is your issue, not mine.

Indeed your comment reminds me of the words of Jesus:

Luke 11:27-28
27 And it came to pass, as he spake these things, a certain woman of the company lifted her voice, and said unto him, Blessed is the womb that bare thee, and the paps which thou hast sucked.
28 But he said, Yea rather, blessed are they that hear the word of God, and keep it.
KJV

[Tj3]

Tj3,
YOURS is the false accusation about me.
It has been show here repeatedly by many that you refuse to believe what the bible says about several things.

Really Fred? All I see from you is false accusations and your opinions - which, contrary to what you may believe, are not canonical! God's word is, yours isn't.

Sndbay above has again shown you the truth from the bible that The Son of God was born of Mary.

And who argued that He wasn't? Of course, another false accusation from you, Fred. Show us the quote - you won't because it is a boldfaced lie.

Be careful -

Rev 21:8
8 But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death."
NKJV

Now if you feel that sndbay has the truth, then why not ask if he believes that Mary is the mother of God and in the heresy that God was conceived?

[arcura]

Tj3,
Yes!!
ReallY!
Discussing this issue with you is useless.
Fred

[Tj3]

Tj3,
Yes!!!
ReallY!!
Discussing this issue with you is useless.
Fred

If you plan to continue to try to refute what scripture says with your opinion, yes, no doubt you will find it frustrating.

[sndbay]

Tj3,
YOURS is the false accusation about me.
It has been show here repeatedly by many that you refuse to believe what the bible says about several things.
sndbay above has again shown you the truth from the bible that The Son of God was born of Mary.
You do not believe it. That is your choice.
As I said it is useless to discus it further with you.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

Fred, As a child of God I trust that everything of goodness was of Our Father. I put no other before His Word and doctrine. In my heart and mind it will be the Will of God that is chosen.
Causion should be used in anything said by man because no man is perfect, but man should live in hopes of the prefecting faith. In the light of Christ and following Christ. Christ is the vine, the flesh that makes it possible for life with Our Father.

Show Honor, Praise and Glory to ONE..

The incorruptive seed of God was Christ Jesus... Mary was a virgin vessel used to carry the incorreuptible seed of God. She was blessed by God, and kept holy, thus clean. Any and all good works are manifest beforehand by God.

Scripture also tells us not one man was ever born of woman clean. Job 25:4-5 How then can man be justified with God? Or how can he be clean [that is] born of a woman? Behold even to the moon, and it shineth not; yea, the stars are not pure in his sight.

Honor no other then God Our Father..

1 Timothy 4:12-13 Let no man despise thy youth; but be thou an example of the believers, in word, in conversation, in charity, in spirit, in faith, in purity. Till I come, give attendance to reading, to exhortation, to doctrine.

The doctrine is Our Father's Word, The Spiritual Truth

1 Timothy 4:16 Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee.

1 Timothy 5:25 Likewise also the good works of some are manifest beforehand; and they that are otherwise cannot be hid.

Mary herself gave all praise to the Lord. Her journey was blessed and manfested by God. A chosen vessel, a child of God herself, as Christ told us in the scripture of love shown to all that believe and hear His Word. Luke 8:21 God is the Father of all who hear.. No favorites.. God loves all His children who follow Him..

Luke 8:21 And He answered and said unto them, My mother and my brethren are these which hear the word of God, and do it.

[Fr_Chuck]

Thread closed, the facts of the matter presented over and over, merely repeating the same material.
The people what will accept it will, those that don't won't