[talaniman]

Good points EX, yeah I did the same, had one main room, and kept doors closed, especially the bathroom. But I did have to tap hands when we were watching TV, as my son was fascinated over changing channels. But he learned about No and Stop though, and after that, I never had to touch him again, Hmm and didn't have to move the furniture around either. That's my point though, as training them young to obey, is essential, I never had to tap the girls at all, as they just seemed to understand for some reason. I can't stand seeing people go overboard though, but I do think there are a lot of parents with poor parenting skills though. What about after a fair warning, and they still want to pull the lamp off the table by the cord?

[Momma to three]

But in fact I would go as far as I did five or six pages ago, and say that it is more abuse to the child by not spanking them, since there is no proper control and proper behavior modification to keep many children from destructive behavior

What makes you think that, just because I have never HIT my children, I have never disciplined them? To discipline means to TEACH... my children have been taught proper ways to behave, to treat other people and property, to speak, etc. from the time they were able to get out of my arms and move around. I never had to lay a hand on any of them to accomplish that feat, though.

[Momma to three]

Just curious as to why those against spanking equate a tap on the hands to child abuse, when most of us who do spank, think restraint, is the key to corporal punishment. Also how do you let a child know that he shouldn't touch a electrical socket, when they are not able to understand language yet? Somebody just tell me the methods you would use.

Hitting is hitting, no matter what "level" of hitting you use, or how you dress it up with other words like tap or pop or swat. I put plugs into my electrical outlets, and told my children "NO" in a stern voice if they went near them. They were usually much more interested in spending time with Mom and Dad than sticking their fingers in an electrical socket.

[talaniman]

Hitting is hitting, no matter what "level" of hitting you use, or how you dress it up with other words like tap or pop or swat. I put plugs into my electrical outlets, and told my children "NO" in a stern voice if they went near them. They were usually much more interested in spending time with Mom and Dad than sticking their fingers in an electrical socket.

Your lucky, my son would rather get into things, than sit in moms lap. He never stopped until bedtime, so what about the lamp thing, and if they were insistent on playing with it?

[Momma to three]

Your lucky, my son would rather get into things, than sit in moms lap. He never stopped until bedtime, so what about the lamp thing, and if they were insistent on playing with it??

What's to explain? Just keep removing them from next to it, say "NO" sternly, and interest them in something else. That's TEACHING and CONSISTENCY.

Oh, and I never said anything about sitting in Mom's lap... I was talkiing about actually playing with the child... with their toys, or reading books, or singing.

[talaniman]

You sound like a good mom, patient and attentive, which I think are keys to raising kids. Do you think that technique works for ALL kids though?

[Momma to three]

Not necessarily... but with all the techniques that are out there, I don't think that any parent should ever have to resort to hitting their child when trying to teach them something.

[talaniman]

That was what I was really asking, about those other techniques, for those hard to teach children. As I said before, my son was one of those stubborn repeat offenders, he just couldn't leave those buttons on the TV alone, but was scared to touch them after a stern No and yeah the old hand tap, so I finally had to get him his own, that didn't last long as he still wanted to play with mine. (no we didn't have a remote, and that's a whole nuther story)

[jasondbel]

The bottom line is I spend tons of quality time with my child. We have the star sticker thing set up. I get down on his level and play cars. I teach him. Read books etc. That's all he wants. Its been like that since he was born. If he was a repeat offender, you're letting people know that you were not prepared for a child and you were side tracked quite a bit. Sitting in mommies lap doesn't cover it. My child wears me down with what he can come up with to play and spend time and our time together is very consistent from the moment he was born. I am a single father. All we have is each other. I don't take a minute for granted with him. The thought of hitting my child is unconceivable. It does not have to be done. Although he will clean his own mess ill bake a cake and let him devour it on weekends when the star stickers accumulate. At first he would not eat unless it was junk food(mother) but after a day and a half of not eating trust me he eats every meal. The minute he needs something I am on it. The minute he spits something out I'm on him. He knows daddy is right there from day one.

[NowWhat]

i said my child will be prepared in case one of your kids who yall hit decides to to bring that behavior to the school yard. Sorry my life doesnt revolve on a computer. I have always been in the feild working hard for my money. I make as much money as some people who have been on computers since they were invented.
My kid loves public perfect manners. Explain that? If everyone wants to call ocs then obviously there are ways around hitting a child. My god do these kids really make you people this strung out that you have to hit them? Let me take you to some places where there really is a need for violent discipline then see if a kid really conjures up a feeling to where you have to hit them. When a toddler becomes a toddler they are playing aorund with your authority because they love you and feel safe around you. They dont do that with other people you drop them off with. So you hit them. Great. Good for you. Slap the joy clean out their mouth. You should be proud.

So, because your child hasn't been spanked and mine has - you think your kid is going to get bullied by my kid? Your wrong. My child has been spanked (last resort option) - she is pretty passive with other kids. The kids that have hit her and bullied her in the school yard are those that were probably told "no" a hundred times and learned they could get away with anything when they should have got their butt smacked to get the picture.

My child, the one who has gotten spanked would not hit anyone. She has been the victim of bullies over and over. If I am teaching all these horrible acts of violence - then why isn't she the bully? Why is it those kids that have their parents wrapped around their fingers and never get PUNISHED for what they do?

[talaniman]

I think we miss the point of separating what proper for us to do as parents, from the whole thing about, what we have done. And my question to Jason is, does his technique work for ALL kids? And I have been very specific as to the examples I have given.

[Synnen]

The bottom line is i spend tons of quality time with my child. We have the star sticker thing set up. I get down on his level and play cars. i teach him. read books etc. Thats all he wants. Its been like that since he was born. If he was a repeat offender, youre letting people know that you were not prepared for a child and you were side tracked quite a bit. Sitting in mommies lap doesnt cover it. My child wears me down with what he can come up with to play and spend time and our time together is very consistant from the moment he was born. I am a single father. All we have is each other. I dont take a minute for granted with him. The thought of hitting my child is unconceivable. It does not have to be done. Although he will clean his own mess ill bake a cake and let him devour it on weekends when the star stickers accumulate. At first he would not eat unless it was junk food(mother) but after a day and a half of not eating trust me he eats every meal. The minute he needs something i am on it. The minute he spits something out im on him. He knows daddy is right there from day one.

So... starving your kid for a day and a half isn't abuse, but a swat on the a$$ is.

Double standard, in my opinion.

[talaniman]

Make no mistake I am against child abuse, that not what we are talking about. But the techniques used by those who do not spank. The repoire and bond you have with your own kids is unique, and special as we make it, so I think I deserve to have the questions I asked answered. And as I have said before the proof is in the puddin, and again all due respect, you won't know if your right or wrong, until the child grows up, and you can see what type of human he/she is. If yours responds well now to what your doing great, but what if they don't? What are the technique you would use in that case?

[NowWhat]

The bottom line is i spend tons of quality time with my child. We have the star sticker thing set up. I get down on his level and play cars. i teach him. read books etc. Thats all he wants. Its been like that since he was born. If he was a repeat offender, youre letting people know that you were not prepared for a child and you were side tracked quite a bit. Sitting in mommies lap doesnt cover it. My child wears me down with what he can come up with to play and spend time and our time together is very consistant from the moment he was born. I am a single father. All we have is each other. I dont take a minute for granted with him. The thought of hitting my child is unconceivable. It does not have to be done. Although he will clean his own mess ill bake a cake and let him devour it on weekends when the star stickers accumulate. At first he would not eat unless it was junk food(mother) but after a day and a half of not eating trust me he eats every meal. The minute he needs something i am on it. The minute he spits something out im on him. He knows daddy is right there from day one.

Do what works for you. I hope that your son doesn't do anything he is not supposed to more than once. Because according to you, that would make you an unprepared parent. One that just wasn't ready to be a dad, right? You never know what is going to get thrown your way or what phase your child is entering.
You can give all the shiny stars you want - one day they won't interest him and you will have to find something new. It is a fact of life. Not bad parenting.

The fact that spanking is in my discipline plan does NOT mean that I am any less there for my child.

Again, do as you wish and what works for you. But don't look down on me or discount my parenting skills because they don't match with yours. And don't make assumptions about all kids who are spanked vs. all kids who aren't.
What works for you isn't going to work for all. Spanking works for us when we need to use it.

[jasondbel]

I don't know, if man can build nuclear powered friggin aircraft carriers or fly to the darn moon then there should be other ways to discipline besides hitting. His doctor along with a second opinion doctor told me to do that about is eating. I was hesitent at first but since it been done food is wasted no more and he will eat green beans as quick as cake. You people are picking a topic then scattering around with it. Someone said the kids that don't receive discipline vs. the kids who are spanked are the bullies. Who said anything about not disciplining? I send him to his room all day long. I put him in time amount as much as you people spank. All I'm saying is it's a temporary stage that they are going through as toddlers which will be outgrown and they will remember nothing of this time if they test your authority its because they feel safe around you. Maybe you people need to go to yoga or something to find some patience and tolerance. Just because you hit them and they don't do it again -they don't do it because you taught them they stop because they are scared of your rage. Maybe I'm being nieve because this is my first child and his mother is gone and don't really have a clue what I'm up against "according to talan" but I saw my son bullied by bigger kids and he picked up the biting and hitting from them and they were hit by their parents. On the other side of town my son was playing with antoher kid the kid hit, my son hit back more and harder a few weeks later. The kid that started it ran to his father said my son hit him. The guy caught himself telling my son not to hit and I said your son hit first my son defended himself although your son is older he started crying and ran to you.
As a father, what was I supposed to do? Reach down and spank him tell him no because he was bullied bit and hit by kids whose parents hit them? Am I supposed to spank my son because he continues to press the buttons on the TV because he is fascinated with our new age technology and wants to learn everything that he sees everyone else do? He wants to touch everything through experimentation knowing soon he will be big enough mature enough to change the channel on his own with a purpose. So why hit? Ill tell you why, because you are so wrapped up in a darn TV show and it made you mad. Its just a TV pal. Maybe just maybe if it was a little higher he or she might not be able to touch it and there goes one less problem.
Yeah, people are different kids are different, then how come all kids are already well mapped out in books, their different developmental stages? Terrible twos, etc

[Momma to three]

Make no mistake I am against child abuse, that not what we are talking about. But the techniques used by those who do not spank. The repoire and bond you have with your own kids is unique, and special as we make it, so I think I deserve to have the questions I asked answered. And as I have said before the proof is in the puddin, and again all due respect, you wont know if your right or wrong, until the child grows up, and you can see what type of human he/she is. If yours responds well now to what your doing great, but what if they don't? What are the technique you would use in that case??

Well, I've told you what I did in the situation you asked about. If that hadn't worked? I have no idea... because a lot of my creative discipline ideas are spur of the moment, off the top of my head stuff. As for knowing if my discipline methods work... my children are 22, 18 and 15... two are grown and on their own, and one is nearly there... and all three are people I'm proud to know.

[talaniman]

So why hit? Ill tell you why, because you are so wrapped up in a darn TV show and it made you mad. Its just a TV pal. Maybe just maybe if it was a little higher he or she might not be able to touch it and there goes one less problem.

Actually it was a floor model console from JCPenney 30 years ago, but the point was that one smack on the hand and a NO, was all it took. From then on he knew NO mean;t don't do it. That tap was not out of anger, but to let him know what I expected, and now he has his own boys (4) and is a great dad, who has never had to spank his. But during those formative years you make decisions, and do what you have to, creative or not because at 3/4 they know enough where talking is enough, and no he, hardly ever required any punishment, and we are very close today, so the point is as strongly as you feel, you make a lot of assumptions for someone who is still going through it. I don't believe in hitting out of anger, and as I said if a tap on the hand freaks you out, and makes me a bad person, tough. If you want to equate me with a child abuser, tough. But let me see, if you don't spank, and get good results fine, I'm glad, but I did, and have good results, so who's right? Frankly my main objection is the name calling, and asinine assumptions you try to put on those, who have already done what your trying to do, so see me when your kid graduates, and save the keyboard courage, and threats for someone who cares. I probably have a bunch of kids older and wiser, and tougher than you so if you can't hold a decent discussion without the crap you sling, go stand in the corner, young disrespectful ,whipper snapper. Now that may be construed as CHILD abuse. Also your credibility is nill with me, as you have shown here, an adult converation is not your strong point, and I hope your son teaches you better.

[talaniman]

Well, I've told you what I did in the situation you asked about. If that hadn't worked? I have no idea...because a lot of my creative discipline ideas are spur of the moment, off the top of my head stuff. As for knowing if my discipline methods work.....my children are 22, 18 and 15...two are grown and on their own, and one is nearly there....and all three are people I'm proud to know.

I respect your opinion, and your methods, as you have made a good, no excellent case, in an respectful manner, and in no way am I lumping you in the same basket, as the young kid with the smart mouth. Continued success.

[talaniman]

I think there are to many variables to blanket say that one technique or another is the way to go. What works on yours maynot work on mine. Those are the very real decisions we make as parents, how to raise and teach, and yes, disipline our own kids. Every house is unique, as we are as adults, so we use what we chose, and do what we must. I don't need a law for that.

Comments on this poststartover22 agrees: Perfectly announced! I like this a lot, we are all different, I value that!
jasondbel : I also agree completely.

Are you the same guy that agreed with me???

[jasondbel]

Exactly! When its time for a plan of action I'm there with something imagintive and it doesn't resort to hittiing