[JoeT777]

I believe I typed "Christ has done everything we need to be saved." That is the same thing you have elaborated. Moreover why do you mock? Mocking is what atheists do when they are not able to answer any issue. I don't expect that form a Christian. A Christian is supposed to maintain a humble heart. "It is finished" just means the task is accomplished. I thought that was obvious. You have wasted your time in typing such a big article about something that is obvious.

Actually, what you said was “It is finished: John 19:30 - If sacrifices are not required the priests have no office anymore.” But, be that as it may, I was suggesting that Christ established his Kingdom, selected, as it were, a hierarchy of bishops, established priests, deacons, etc, all of which were to teach all that Christ taught, the Kingdom, then priests were much in demand, and an office ordained by Christ. In other words, it was the beginning – not the end.

"Christ “established here on earth” only one Church and instituted it as a “visible and spiritual community”, that from its beginning and throughout the centuries has always existed and will always exist, and in which alone are found all the elements that Christ himself instituted. “This one Church of Christ, which we confess in the Creed as one, holy, catholic and apostolic […]. This Church, constituted and organized in this world as a society, subsists in the Catholic Church, governed by the successor of Peter and the Bishops in communion with him”. Responses to Some Questions Regarding Certain Aspects of the Doctrine on the Church, William Cardinal Levada, July 2007.

I have already explained that Jesus after He ascended to heaven came back to dwell in us as the HOLY Spirit. That should explain it all.

This can't be right; not at all. Assuming you believe in the Holy Trinity, what this implies is that there are only two Persons in the Trinity and that Christ has three natures, man, God, and Holy Spirit. Catholics and most Christians believe that the Holy Trinity comprises three Persons, God (the Godhead), Christ and the Holy Spirit. Three distinct persons each with their own nature – except that Christ has two natures, that of man and God. Further by suggesting that Christ went to heaven and came back makes the rest of Scripture out wrong. This type of error I'm trying to point out; Scripture and Tradition must be in harmony with each other and the Church. In doing so, what happens is you find yourself 'Catholic.' And this is because, this was Christ's mission to establish HIS Kingdom, not Luther's, not Jim Jones', not Calvin's.

That was very offences to a Bible believing Christian has this attitude. Is it beyond your capacity to speak offensively?

I can understand how this might seem to you to be offensive, but again, in my cynical way, the intent is to point out how illogical it is to suggest that Christ came, died on the Cross and leaving us here without both a earthly body and a spiritual body, i.e. the Church.

As to “GO, GO and sin, sin, all you need do is 'believe'.” is a cynical paraphrase of Lord Luther's :

If you are a preacher of mercy, do not preach an imaginary but the true mercy. If the mercy is true, you must therefore bear the true, not an imaginary sin. God does not save those who are only imaginary sinners. Be a sinner, and let your sins be strong, but let your trust in Christ be stronger, and rejoice in Christ who is the victor over sin, death, and the world. We will commit sins while we are here, for this life is not a place where justice resides. We, however, says Peter (2. Peter 3:13) are looking forward to a new heaven and a new earth where justice will reign. It suffices that through God's glory we have recognized the Lamb who takes away the sin of the world. No sin can separate us from Him, even if we were to kill or commit adultery thousands of times each day. Do you think such an exalted Lamb paid merely a small price with a meager sacrifice for our sins? Pray hard for you are quite a sinner. (Weimar ed. vol. 2, p. 371; Letters I, “Luther's Works,”)

You might say "sin and sin mightily and grace will abound the more!" This is the kind of logic that allows subjective reasoning.

First of all provide scriptural backup for your claims.

see https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/christ...ml#post2210169 and https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/christ...433985-16.html

Where did God promise that He would always be with us in the Eucharist?

See John 6

Also do you mean to say that God is with us only in Eucharist?

Don't think I did.

By the way you have still not commented on the Holy Spirit? Where is that third person of the trinity? Is God not present where the Holy Spirit is? I hope you don't ignore these questions as you have done to my other questions, and instead address them.

I don't know that I understand the question. Do you view the Holy Spirit as a 'being' with form? Or is it a spirit that possesses people like the evil spirits driven out by Christ? Or is it a Spirit that Guides and protects the Magisterium of the Church?

This makes absolutely no sense at all and the verse speaks nothing you have typed. Either you are fully confused or are unable express yourself clearly. I would be happy if you explain that paragraph better.

Please do explain.

Being in the presence of Christ, you might say the Apostles were the Shewbread that feed His lambs. Ever wonder why Christ said this to Peter? It's my opinion that Peter and the others were to feed them knowledge of a hope in Christ. We need to be shown the need for hope and understand the promise of hope before we can have hope. [Cf. "bread of the presence (of Yahweh)" (Exodus 35:13; 39:35, etc.) "holy bread" (1 Samuel 21:6), "bread of piles" (1 Chronicles 9:32; 23:29), "continual bread" (Numbers 4:7), or simply "bread" (Hebrew Version, Exodus 11:23)] Not as the manna from heaven, but a different type of food, you might say our first grace, knowledge of Christ.

The reason for Christ's baptism was to fulfill the Old Testament law and prophesy; as He said, “I have come not to destroy, but to fulfill the law". Paraphrasing St. Chrysostom, it's here we see the reasons for John's indulgence. It's here and during Christ's passion where we see the doors to the Church open, the veil rent, and the Holy of Holies exposed to man. It's here that The Twelve 'loaves of proposition” are exposed to the Holy of Hollies.

In Exodus 40 we see the tabernacle (the residence of God) being described. A veil or curtain separates the ark from the priests. Loaves of bread were stacked in front of the curtain in two stacks of 6 (12 loaves) in the presence of God. “And Moses did all that the Lord had commanded …And he set the table in the tabernacle of the testimony, at the north side, without the veil, Setting there in order the loaves of proposition, as the Lord had commanded Moses” The bread was exposed to God, remaining there for about a week. Then in at the appropriate time, it was removed and used by the priests for substance.

Offering His self as the manna of life, Christ eclipsed the renewed baptism from merely renovating the Jew's soul, transforming it to a Baptism of a rebirth in a new spirit as adopted sons of God. “Not until then, assuredly, 'were either the heavens opened, nor did the Spirit make His approach'. Because henceforth He leads us away from the old to the new polity, both opening to us the gates on high, and sending down His Spirit from thence to call us to our country there; and not merely to call us, but also with the greatest mark of dignity. For He has not made us angels and archangels, but He has caused us to become sons of God, and beloved, and so He draws us on towards that portion of ours.” (St. Chrysostom, Homilies on Matthew, Homily 12) It's in this verse of Matthew that we are “born again”. Unless a man is Baptized, “he has not salvation … For when the Savior, in redeeming the world by His Cross, was pierced in the side, He shed forth blood and water; that men, living in times of peace, might be baptized in water, and, in times of persecution, in their own blood." (Cyril of Jerusalem, Catechetical Lectures, 3:10). Christ instituted Baptism so that we will become the adopted sons of God in a personal call to a real salvation in an eternal life. St. Thomas says that the “role of The Apostle says (Romans 8:24): 'What a man seeth, why doth he hope for?' Now the blessed enjoy the sight of God. Therefore hope has no place in them.” In other words if we already have a vision of Christ, we have no need of hope, i.e. "hope has no place in them." Conversely, given knowledge Christ gives us hope for a future vision of Christ.

Sometimes Scriptures are described as being 'witnesses to Christ's sacrifice. While in a general sense they are. However, they aren't the infallible rule of faith. As C.K. Chesterton once suggested, “for the simple reason that the Bible does not say anything. You cannot put a book in the witness-box and ask it what it really means. .. The Bible by itself cannot be a basis of agreement when it is a cause of disagreement; it cannot be the common ground of Christians when some take it allegorically and some literally. The Catholic refers it to something that can say something, to the living, consistent, and continuous mind of which I have spoken; the highest mind of man guided by God.”


JoeT

[arcura]

inhisservice and donn,
I fully agree with Joe.
And Yes, because the Holy Spirit is the guide of Christ's Bride, the Catholic Church it is the only one that correctly interprets all holy Scripture.
That does not mean that some other denomination have it ALL wrong. The do not. Many have great parts of it correctly, but NONE have it all correctly as is obvious from, as example, those who oppose the Fact that the bible clearly says the Peter is the rock on which Jesus established HIS Church.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

[450donn]

inhisservice and donn,
I fully agree with Joe.
And Yes, because the Holy Spirit is the guide of Christ's Bride, the Catholic Church it is the only one that correctly interprets all holy Scripture.
That does not mean that some other denomination have it ALL wrong. The do not. Many have great parts of it correctly, but NONE have it all correctly as is obvious from, as example, those who oppose the Fact that the bible clearly says the Peter is the rock on which Jesus established HIS Church.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

This sort of stuff really shows how brainwashed you are Fred. Are you trying to become a cult leader like Jim Jones? Like I said Fred, I find your comments insulting to all Christians. I have reported your insulting comments to the moderators. Many others have been kicked off the board for far less inflammatory comments than this. Where are the moderators when there is a legitimant complaint?

[arcura]

450donn,
IF you are insulted it was not intentional.
I am just stating who I am and where I stand religiously.
I assure you I am NOT brainwashed. That accusation IS an insult to me.
I go by what the bible clearly says and that is why after many years as a Protestant I slowly became a Catholic.
If you want to BLAME something for that blame the Holy Bible for THAT is my foundation guide.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

[Fr_Chuck]

And the moderators ( not me) thought the complaint was non valid, esp with the subject of the post and it was ingored.

I am closing this, since it appears being civil will not happen