[NowWhat]

You SHOULD think of this as a fight. That is exactly what it is. I agree with Momof2 - ask for the moon - but expect not to get it. If you don't ask for it - you know what you will be getting. You never know how these things will turn out. You could get a judge that is sympathetic to Dad's or was just cheated on by his wife - his view could be jaded. You just never know. So go for what you want. Don't be afraid and don't back down.
Your wife seems to be using your kids as weapons. And you have to do everything to protect them. Hopefully the courts will see that.

It is okay to be mad about what has happened to you with your wife. It is a terrible thing. It's not right or fair. Try your best to keep your anger in check when your kids are there. You can't do anything about what your wife is doing - putting them in the middle - but YOU don't have to play that game. You can take the high road to make your kids feel like they don't have to choose.
Good Luck.

[Delilah P]

Familyman2, you're right. It is obscenely unfair that the courts don't look at longterm damage to the children. It's a business.. that's all. A business for the attorneys.. a business for the courts. It's all cut and dry. They don't look at yesterday and they don't look at tomorrow. You are hurting and it's all too understandable. You wrote, "I am in a situation now where an outside, dishonorable man is about to bring MY family into his home. Where is my protection? I have spent 7 years developing these children, daily, trying to be a good husband, and now some lowlife gets to waltz in and reap the rewards!?!" Isn't that just unbelievable?? And yet your spouse can forget all of that? I agree 100% with Mom of 2 and NowWhat... go for the moon, as one of them said. This is your ONLY real chance of getting what you want and what is right. Know in advance that you will get less than what you are asking for.. you HAVE to go for well over what YOU think is acceptable.. as the court try to reach a 'happy medium', in their eyes. Contact Mom of 2, especially since she has gone through this. You need to arm yourself with all the help you can, especially from people who have gone through this themselves. As always... our thoughts are with you, familyman2. Please keep us in the loop.

[familyman2]

I hadn’t intended to post today until a turn of events threw me for a loop.

MOM OF 2, I think I might take you up on the offer for guidance. Let’s figure a way to make contact. I am truly grateful for your offer, and I promise not to take advantage of it.

As we all have known, my extb and I agreed that the kids would be with me on school nights and attend the new “magnet” school together, at last.

In the midst of the worst period of my life, with all of everybody’s encouragement, I have managed to focus on the kids. Over the past two months I have taken the initiative to find a good school, and to rent an apartment right next to the school’s playground. For now I have a rent and a mortgage, but it has put the kids where they belong.

As well, I have bought all of their school clothes, shoes, and supplies. I have done all of the enrollment procedures, had the kids tested, and brought them through the school to get used to it. I have spent the past months getting the kids acclimated to their new home, and have gotten them very excited to begin school. Basically, I have done everything I could possibly think of to build in stability for the children. We even have worked out bedtimes, wake up times, and the path to school.

Alternatively, the extb has done nada! Outside of working her self serving ways she has done nothing to help me get these children ready for their new adventure.

But guess what. Now she is asking the courts to let her bring the kids to school on Mondays, and have sleepovers on alternate Wednesdays. She is completely undermining the efforts I have made to give the kids what they need. They don’t need to be dragged from one home to the other during the week. They shouldn’t have to wake up an extra hour earlier to take the 45 minute car ride from the extb’s home. With her dismal attendance record, (last year my daughter missed over 20 days of school, mostly unexcused, and was late over 15 times. And the bus stopped right in front of their house!), and with the high risk of traffic jams there is no way she’ll consistently get them to school on time, or at all.

If this plan goes through the kids will have two different bedtimes, and two different wake up times. They will be tossed into an unstable situation, all because the ex is thinking about herself before the kids. Worst of all I think the attorneys are in cahoots trying to negotiate the “status quo”. They are trying to work out a deal that is good for the parents rather than a deal that is good for the kids. They are losing focus in my opinion.
I want to feel that my attorney is fighting for me, rather than negotiating away the children’s stability.

I can’t allow this to happen. I am worried more than ever with the thoughts of this plan.
I wonder if the judges and lawyers will actually see the absurdity of her pleas. Or will they award this, and/or more to the ex because of her sex, or because of the “joint” custody policy. What can I do outside of praying a lot?

[talaniman]

Your plan is solid and your efforts are commendable. It is obvious that your wife is trying her best to look as good as you, at least on paper. Don't sweat it at all as she is only putting up a good fight. You get two opposing lawyers together, this is what you get. Stay focused on your kids and not the courts. No matter what happens your kids will be grown one day, and they will appreciate what you are doing now.

[familyman2]

Guess what...

I didn't budge today. I said it was not in the best interests of the kids to upset the stability I have worked hard to provide for them. I will not back down from this.

So my extb's response was that since I wouldn't compromise she will petition the courts to let her have the kids for school near her. She would be willing to rip the kids away from the school they are so excited to attend because she didn't get her way. Instead of understanding the importance of the kids stability she is messing with the system to hurt me and to benefit her. She has no inkling about the effects on the kids.

I just fear that the lawyers might deem me unwilling to cooperate and it will cause an adverse effect on my case. I hope that someone can see I am fighting for the kids.
If not, the courts will be placing a handicap on my children's future potential! I am frustrated and a bit scared. I just can't give in on this one...

Does anyone know if it is illegal to use the kids as pawns so my ex can get her way? If I don't give in to her demands she will punish me by taking away the kids. That is just wrong!

That's all for now. I have been venting quite a bit this week. I guess it's been a tough one.
I don't know if it is the best thing to do by airing my case over the internet, but it is very therapeutic. And I am not divulging anything that my ex doesn't already know.

So have a good one and let me hear from you. I don't know how yet, but I am going to show my gratitude to you all some day. You have no idea how much your insight
Means to me. Thank you!

[talaniman]

Don't back down and its up to a judge not her so don't let her hard ball tactics scare you. This is just starting so get ready for more of the same.

[Mom of 2]

Ok. Here are my thoughts after reading all of the posts several times.

First, familyman, I would be more than happy to offer my assistance to you, as you will need a lot of pointers before going into court and through the evaluation process. I have no problem what so ever in posting my suggestions on this site, but if you also want to connect offline, that is okay as well. Just let me know.

Second, compromise is the name of the game in this process. It is not "illegal" per se to use the children as pawns, but that does not mean that it makes it right. You can't bring your stbx up on charges because she really has not done anything illegal. She is morally wrong, but she has not done anything illegal in the eyes of the court. Now, if she was beating or neglecting the children, then she could be brought up on charges. (By neglect I mean not feeding them, not clothing them, leaving them to run the streets without proper supervision, etc.) Keep a record of all of the poor and immoral decisions that she has made with corresponding dates (exact times if at all possible). Note the dates and times when your daughter tells you things. Use anything and everything that you can against her to show that she is not the best parent, but do it in a way that does not appear to be vengeful or vindictive. Listen to your lawyer on the best way that you can do this.

Lawyers are simply put expensive negotiators. Only 5-10% of all divorces go to trial, which means that the majority of all divorces are negotiated between the lawyers/clients. There will be times when you feel that the lawyers are in cahoots, but everyone who has gone through a divorce has felt this way. I am sure that everyone on this site had to give up something in their divorce in order to get the one thing that they felt strongly about. Learn to see the forest through the trees. With that I mean step back and try and look at the big picture. What is the ultimate goal that you are trying to achieve?

If I understand you, you want the children to be able to attend their current school with as little disruption as possible. I don't think that you realize that you are really at an advantage by living so close to the school that the children are enrolled at. By status quo, I do not mean that EVERYTHING about your current arrangement will be the one that will be decided upon, but rather all decisions on custody will revolve around making sure that the children will continue to attend their current school, status quo. She is really at a disadvantage. The residential parent is usually the parent who lives within the school boundaries of the school that the children are attending, which would be you. You are worried about the fact that your stbx will not be able to get your daughter to school on time. Well, let her hang her own noose. If your ex gets her way and your daughter is late to school or has missed any days when she is with her, then document that. Keep close tabs with the school and get documentation from THEM for all of the days that she is late or has missed any days. Then use THAT against her for reasons she cannot have any overnights on school nights. You need to show proof to the court, as you are just one divorcing couple among thousands that they see. It is unfortunate that your children will be have to suffer in order to show the court proof, but know that in the end, things will work themselves out. You cannot control everything that your ex does and you cannot shield your children from every bad situation in their lives, but you can show them what a good life is as compared to what your ex is offering. In order for people to appreciate the good things in life, they need to know and experience things that may not be so good.

I am getting off my soapbox now. Hopefully I have helped in some way.

[talaniman]

I think the important thing is to keep yourself focused on the kids as your actions have already proved, a judge would be hard pressed to ignore what you've done, and I'm sure her lawyer has told her of this. She will be hard pressed to match what you've done, so no doubt will come up with ways to insert her own interest into these negotiations. The only mistake you can make, is to stop her from having quality time with her children, which would not be in their interests, or yours either. Mom of 2 is correct that this will probably never go to trial, as whatever you and the ex negotiate, will be signed off by the judge. Pick your battles carefully and remember you are tied to this woman for a long time.

[Mom of 2]

Familyman, you need to identify the one thing that you will not back down on AT ALL. What is that one thing? What are the other things that are important to you, but you are willing to compromise on? The third thing, what are the things that may be kind of important to you, but that you are willing to give up entirely in order to get the one thing that you REALLy, REALLY want? Remember, you can't get everything that you are asking for, as you will be viewed as not able to compromise and this little thing will really hurt you. You won't necessarily lose custody entirely, but the divorce will drag on and on and all of the money that you could be spending on the kids will instead be spent on the lawyers. Just a little food for thought.

[familyman2]

Thank you all.

The one thing I will not back down from is having the children wake up on school days from a bed that is literally 200 feet from the school.

The ex is free to come over and walk the kids to school, and home any day. This I will negotiate. Plus, she gets them on most weekends.

I will negotiate summertime custody. And the one thing I hate to do but will compromise on is Christmas. She can have them for that holiday. I think this would be a huge gesture on my part to show how serious I am about the children's stability and convenience.

So this is the battle I am picking, and don't plan to back down. What do you think?

MOM OF 2 can I email you? I would give you mine but I don't want to give away my identity here due to the circumstances. I can also understand if you feel the same, so we could figure another way to make contact, or we could continue our discussion here. In a way this might be best so we can include our other allies here in the mix. Whatever will work for you will work for me.

Incidentally, my kid's orientation is today and my extb won't return the kids to me. I called her voice mail (and both attorneys) with the time and directions to the school. I also emailed her and the two attorneys with this info. I figure if she shows up with them it is good because then they have started school down here. If she doesn't show up with them I believe it will look pretty bad for her, and should do some harm to her case.?

[familyman2]

Amendment with great news!

It came to a head today where I was maintaining my stance and the ex was trying to
Petition the judge to let the kids go with her. After all was said and done I got the kids during school. She can drive them in on Monday mornings provided they are on time every time, or else she will be in contempt of court. And she can visit with them for a few hours every other Wednesday. This is huge! It was what I've wanted for the kids. And now they will spend their academic years with me. I can't tell you how relieved I am. I slept for about twenty minutes last night. The ex will get them for most weekends, and about 60% of the summer. We will split all holidays. With this I will have the kids the majority of the time and should become the legal custodian in time. It will be a long range goal.

The next battle will be over money. But it should be a lower stress deal compared to the custody. I'm sure you all will agree, for the most part.

One other thing, It has been ordered that I can conduct a full background investigation
On this man with whom my ex and children will be living. He cannot be anywhere near the kids until he clears, and we have a long talk about parenting. He's going to know that I will hold him to task to do the best he can for those kids when they're with him.

So, that's it for now. The past few weeks have been murder, but I feel much better today I think I might go eat something!

Regards

[talaniman]

That's great news and as long as you keep putting what's best for your kids first, I don't think you can lose. Go have a steak while you still have a few bucks. Glad for you.

[NowWhat]

Congrats! I know you must feel like a weight has been lifted. Any time our kids well being comes into question - you feel like if you don't act NOW - something terrible is going to happen. So, with the kids living with you most of the time, you KNOW they are being taken care of.
Good For You!
I would imagine that a custody issue is the biggest hurtle - you have gotten over it and won, the rest should seem like cake!

[talaniman]

The next battle will be over money. But it should be a lower stress deal compared to the custody. I'm sure you all will agree, for the most part.

Where as I may agree, but I don't think your wife will give in all that easy. Neither should you, as you have the kids, and they can be expensive. You've already shown her she doesn't have a lot of bargaining power at this point, so secretly I hope you take her to the cleaners, but on another level, I hope you two can work together for your children.

[familyman2]

Amen Talaniman. And thanks for the pat on the back NowWhat.

I do plan to fight for my equitable rights. I put my career on the burner to raise the kids while I helped my ex to further hers. Of course now she claims it was all 50/50 and will not give me any credit for the sacrifice I made for her over the past 12 years.

I really hope the lawyers and judges will be fair and see the true picture.

[familyman2]

Quick question:

I am a bit frustrated about a big mistake that my attorney made. The parenting plan we agreed on was that the extb could visit the kids every other Wednesday for a few hours. And that she could get the kids Friday at 5PM regardless of whether there is school on that day or not. It was also agreed that she could have 21 extra overnights during the summer to make up for this plan.

But the lawyer sent to the judge that the extb could visit every Wednesday, she gets the kids at noon on Fridays when there is no school that day, and that she gets an extra 26 days during the summer. I asked the secretary why this was sent to the judge before I had a chance to review it and sign it. She obviously didn't know. I sent a fax about this to my lawyer but haven't heard back. Do I have any rights here, or am I screwed?

[talaniman]

A 5 day difference in the summer, is what I'm reading, and if I'm right, a small point to concede, in light of the other battles. She is the children's mother, and should spend a very good amount of time with her kids, and they would love it. A very small point to worry about for sure, and that's probably how your lawyer saw it. There will be other more important issues to resolve.

[familyman2]

Agreed, it is small compared to the recent compromise. However, I came into this seeking sole custody and that keeps getting whittled down. I think I just want to say enough before she winds up having the kids more and becomes the legal custodian. Maybe I'm making too much of this, but I am losing confidence in my attorney and I am very leary of my extb's manipulations and tricks. It's just an uncomfortable feeling...

And besides, 5 extra days a year with my kids will be 5 great days.

[Mom of 2]

The one thing to keep in mind is that if you fight every single little point, you will spend A LOT of money. This money could be better spent on the kids. The one who is the most adversarial in the parenting relationship will be looked at in a negative way and will lose on many points. Remember, there is always more than one way to say something and more than one way to get your point across. Yes, 5 days may sound like it is a lot, but it flies by more quick than you may think. You may have lost a small battle, but you did not necessarily lose the war.

It sounds as though you are not understanding all of the legal terminology. Legal custody determines decision making power for education, medical and religion. There are two kinds: Joint and Sole. I hate to put a damper on your psyche, but the majority of all divorces end up with joint legal custody. That does not mean that you should not try for sole custody because you should always ask for more than you are willing to accept.

Visitation is totally separate from this. Even if one parent has sole custody, the other parent still has the right to see their child. The only time that this is not allowed is when there is an extreme risk of physical/emotional harm to the child. Visitation always varies, and it REALLY sounds like you have a GREAT visitation deal compared to what other families have ended up with. The most important thing is that the children have one bed to sleep in during the week when they are in school. There are kids that go from one house to the other every other day (sometimes this works and sometimes it does not). If your stbx has them on every weekend, when will she have the time to socialize? Most likely she is going to start complaining over the fact that she has them every weekend and would like a change. If she does not complain to you about that, then she will start sending them off to baby sitters so that she can have some R&R time. This may sound bad to you, but as my parent coach once said to me, you have to allow your ex to ruin their relationship with your children. Your children, in time, will see the true story and will want to be with you more. If your stbx is never with them, or they are spending A LOT of time with your ex in-laws/babysitters, believe me, they will remember this. If you are the bigger person, your children will respect you more for that. Once your children are adults and are able to decide who they want in their lives, they will make that choice based on how you conducted yourself during this time. Again, your children will only be young for a short period. Make the most of it and don't make them feel bad about their childhood. Make good memories for them because that is what you can control. Let your ex be the bad parent because you cannot control every little thing. Believe me, your children will be more resilient than you may think because you will be supplying them with a great example of what a good parent is and they will see from their mom what a bad parent is. Remember, when there is good there has to be bad in order for people to know what is good and bad. With that, they will appreciate even more all of the things that you do for them.

Believe me, you have more on your side than you realize. At the very least, I think that you will be the custodial (aka residential) parent. You may be awarded sole legal custody, but I would not necessarily hold my breath on that one. If you don't get it, don't think that you lost. The courts just view that everyone needs to come together for the children, even if the parents are forced to do so.

[Mom of 2]

Here are my suggestions for the psychological evaluation (if you find that you need to go through this process)

Here it goes (it is long):

1. Try and get in to see the psychologist FIRST before your ex. I called the psychologist within 2 minutes of hearing that I had to make an appointment with him and I got in first.

2. You will be asked why you feel the marriage failed. Be honest, be ready to share the responsibility of the breakdown because it NEVER is only one person's fault (unless there is abuse). A good one is that communication failed and then indicate ways in which you feel that you could have communicated better. I stated that I failed to communicate effectively because I constantly felt that my ideas would be rejected as being stupid. Therefore, I bottled up a lot of things or tried to fix things that went wrong because I was fearful of being criticized for being stupid. I also stated that my in-laws were constantly overstepping their boundaries by letting themselves into my house unannounced and at one time they started to rearrange the furniture in my home because they felt that it would look better than how I had it.

3. Be cooperative!! Do whatever the psychologist is asking that you do (But don't be stupid). When in doubt, say that you have to consult with your lawyer. However, be careful to not appear that you cannot make a decision for yourself. If the psychologist asks that you take an MMPI-II test (a standardized test), you will have to do so. Saying that you have to consult with your lawyer only makes you appear uncooperative and paranoid. Ask your lawyer prior to your appointment what are customary requests and what are requests that are out of the ordinary. When you do take the MMPI-II, answer the questions as openly and honest as possible. Do not read too much into the question. Do not try and appear to be better than you actually are.

4. If the psychologist asks you to sign a paper to open any medical records on you, refuse. Blame your lawyer and state that your lawyer advised you not to do so. Or you can say that you personally do not have anything to hide, but that you will have to consult with your lawyer before you sign anything. Make your lawyer be the bad guy, not you. (By the way, this is NOT the same as blame). HIPPA (spelling?) protects you. There is a reason that people's medical files cannot be used without a person's consent.

5. DO NOT in anyway, shape or form talk badly about your ex NO MATTER WHAT they have done. Always try and put a positive spin on it. Ex: "I believe that deep down inside __________ may love the children dearly, but I do not think that he/she has the childrens' best interests at heart." -- Be ready to support this answer /why do you feel this way. Try and think of at least 3 redeeming qualities that your stbx may have. I know that right now this may be difficult to do, but think back to when you first met and I am sure that you can think of something, anything. Studies have shown that the more immature parent cannot see any positive/good things about the other parent. This parent is the one who always loses in a custody battle. Be honest. If your ex is smart, is organized, and is a great business person, give them those credits. You will gain credability points right there.

6. Don't make it sound like you are a person who has NEVER made a mistake. Be ready to accept responsibility for those things that you made a mistake on. Admit that with the information that you have now, you would have done A, B or C differently. This does not mean that you are admitting that you are the reason for the failed marriage, but you are not playing the blame game either.

7. As already stated in #3, don't play the blame game. Although your ex may have made some bad choices, you reacted to the choices they made, or maybe they did something because you did something before that, and that was only because the other person did... See how it goes. Remember, you graduated from the first grade.

8. Don't get overly defensive. Calmly explain your situation, but do so in a calm manner. Remember to remain calm. Did I mention to stay calm? If you find yourself getting tense, take a deep breath and refuse to get angry about something that the psychologist says. Remember, it is their job to try and provoke you. If you feel this is what is happening, take a minute and think before you respond to anything.

9. Dress in nice clothes, but don't necessarily dress in a suit. I would not come in torn jeans, a spotted shirt, etc. You are to appear as you normally are, not as a slob but also not to overly impress either. They are psychologists and it is their job to analyze everything that you do, say and show.

10. Relax and try and be yourself. Remember, these are professionals and they will see through any snowjobs.

11. Don't force the psychologist to take or read anything that they are not asking for. Example: My ex forced letters that his mom and his sister wrote about me and my supposed unstable behaviors onto the psychologist. This backfired because the psychologist did not ask for them. Yes, the psychologist did read them, but I was able to CALMLY refute the points that they made as totally inaccurate/taken out of context (notice how I stated inaccurate versus stating that they are liars, which they were - this is what we call spin).

12. A major reason that a lot of marriages fail is due to infidelity. However, you cannot appear to be overly angry/jealous over the fact that your stbx has someone else. You will then appear to be the angry and jealous stbx who is not in control of their emotions and is "out to get" your stbx. You can say something like this: "When I first heard about the affair, I was shocked and hurt. However, I feel that I have come to terms with it and know that I am no longer their significant other. It is my hope that we can work together for the sake of the children. However, although I am an adult and I am able to move on from this affair, I feel that it is more difficult for the children and I am concerned (NOT ANGRY) over the fact that my wife has introduced her boyfriend to the children, has displayed public displays of affection in front of them, and they have seen them in bed together, etc. before the children even knew that we were getting a divorce/before the divorce was filed". I think you get the picture.

These are the main points I wanted to get across. Since this post is sooo long, I will stop here. If you have any questions about any of this, feel free to ask away. I hope that this helps!!