[ordinaryguy]

cant we all get along and accept each other for what they are with out attacking anyone. the way that i look at it, we are all here for a purpose, we should love and accept each other and treat those around us whether we know them well or not. Treat as we expect to be treated and then when Karma does come swingin by you arent hit by the force of a mountain.

I'm with you on this one. I especially like the "inverse formulation" of the golden rule: "Don't do to others what you don't want done to you". But to a person who sees the life of the spirit as an epic war between God and Satan in which angels and humans are soldiers, tolerance is not a virtue, it is capitulation to the Enemy. From that point of view, it's imperative to "do unto others" who don't share your beliefs as you would expect and want to be done to if you were similarly deluded and under the spell of Satan.

Action,
You sound exactly like the Islamic fundamentalists. Just saying.

Yes, the fundamentalist viewpoint is the same, regardless of the content of the belief system. I sometimes refer to it as Onlyism--ONLY one true scripture, ONLY one correct interpretation. All in all a wonderfully clear vision, although one that guarantees a life of perpetual conflict. Ah, well, harmony isn't for everyone. Some people thrive on conflict, and they will choose a religion that gives them that.

[startover22]

I always thought that we all believed in the same GOD but some of us just couldn't realize it. We just fllow different traditions in believing in him. As for me ordinaryguy, this is the most conflict I have ever had (on this site) My family and I step away from drama as fast as we can... It can bring you down fast!

[startover22]

I think you guys are going to keep on going until you just can't anymore and then you are going to find something else to go on. Fine with me if you both are ENJOYING it... See you later. Start

[ActionJackson]

I always thought that we all believed in the same GOD but some of us just couldn't realize it. We just fllow different traditions in believing in him. As for me ordinaryguy, this is the most conflict i have ever had (on this site) My family and I step away from drama as fast as we can......It can bring you down fast!

"For if he cometh and preacheth ANOTHER Jesus, whom we have not preached..."
II Corinthians 11:4
"I am the Lord thy God, Which have brought the out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. Thou shalt have no other gods before Me." Exodus 20:2-3

Clearly not everyone's God is the same God. There is the true Jesus and a false "Jesus" according to II Corinthians. Also, God says that there shall be no other "gods" before Him. "Gods" is plural meaning at least more than one. Therefore, not all men believe in the same God.

[inthebox]

"Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil." Ephesians 6:11. In fact, please read Ephesians 6:10-17 and 18 Paul is issuing a battle cry. We are in a spiritual battle. We don't put on the "armour of God" unless we are going into battle. It's a battle for the souls of men (and women). Chirst told us in Luke 19:13b, "...Occupy till I come." To occupy is to stand ground. Every time we "just accept them for what they are" we just gave up some ground. Christians need to put their hearts, minds, bodies, and souls into thier belief in Christ and His Word. Compromising our faith for the sake of peace is not why Christ came. "Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. For I come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law. And a man's foes shall be they of his own household." Matthew 10:34-36

I admit, it is hard when others question my belief system.
I read these passages and think as a Christian, the war and battle, I fight is not so much with non-believers, but WITHIN MYSELF. The Holy Spirit guides and gives fruit, but the devil wants to prevent me from doing so. For example, spiritual pride. I know the truth is in God's word in the bible and I want so much for others to believe also, but it comes out as a "know it all-ism" that just repels non-belivers. The devil has won.
In reading and studying his word, this stuck out.

Proverbs 9:
7 "Whoever corrects a mocker invites insult;
whoever rebukes a wicked man incurs abuse.
8 Do not rebuke a mocker or he will hate you;
rebuke a wise man and he will love you.
9 Instruct a wise man and he will be wiser still;
teach a righteous man and he will add to his learning.
10 "The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom,
And knowledge of the Holy One is understanding.

AJ, I admire and respect your pasion.
Just my two cents.



Grace and Peace

[ActionJackson]

I admit, it is hard when others question my belief system.
I read these passages and think as a Christian, the war and battle, I fight is not so much with non-believers, but WITHIN MYSELF. The Holy Spirit guides and gives fruit, but the devil wants to prevent me from doing so. For example, spiritual pride. I know the truth is in God's word in the bible and I want so much for others to believe also, but it comes out as a "know it all-ism" that just repels non-belivers. The devil has won.
In reading and studying his word, this stuck out.
Proverbs 9:
7 "Whoever corrects a mocker invites insult;
whoever rebukes a wicked man incurs abuse.
8 Do not rebuke a mocker or he will hate you;
rebuke a wise man and he will love you.
9 Instruct a wise man and he will be wiser still;
teach a righteous man and he will add to his learning.
10 "The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom,
and knowledge of the Holy One is understanding.
AJ, I admire and respect your pasion.
Just my two cents.
Grace and Peace

That verse has a great deal to say to all Christians who frequent this forum. You will know the wise by the way they react to God's truth and you will know the foolish by their ire and wrath and hateful reaction to God's truth. I don't care if I "repel" the non-believers, my hope is to gain the soul of a seeker of truth. Christ said, "Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you." Matthew 7:6

Even Christ was tempted by the devil. When that battle took place, Jesus Christ swung the sword of truth and quoted Scripture. Read Matthew chapter 4 from the beginning to verse 11. Christ repeatedly said "as it is written..." He used the Word of God against Satan and so should we. We all have inner battles. Pray for strength and simply practice improving where you are weak. I have a bad temper but when I look at who I am today compared to who I was 20 years ago, I'm a sweetheart. I used to drink and use drugs a lot and get in bar fights and crash cars and go to jail and steal and hate. I have overcome many of those bad habits over the years thanks to the power of Christ in my life. I have nothing to be ashamed of and I will stand up for the truth whether the non-believers are "offended" by God's Word or not. That's not my problem... it's theirs.

Thanks for the post my friend. Keep up the good work and strong faith.

[chaplain john]

Jackson
I've read all the way through the posts on this thread and have cheered in places and groaned in others. I saw the post where you mentioned your past and it sounds like you and I have some strong similarities. One in particular that I struggle with constantly is my temper which is a bit peppery (I've been told that I tend to understate a bit also) in fact I just got up into someone's face yesterday (Had to repent and then go back and apologize too... Definitely a work in progress). I think I understand where you come from and probably do not disagree with you on too many points but you said something that causes me to have to add my two cents worth.

You said "I don't care if I repel the non-believers".

The great commission was and is to take the "Good News" to ALL of the world not just the seekers of truth and young Christians. Yes, the Word does tend to offend the non-believer but a few diplomatic words can mean the difference between repelling a non-believer and creating a new truth seeker.

A very wise man once told me in the process of an extremely painful lesson "We must not use the Bible as a club but as a sword... With a great deal of finesse for to win a convert we must first make a friend."

Just a thought for your consideration.

[ActionJackson]

Jackson
I've read all the way through the posts on this thread and have cheered in places and groaned in others. I saw the post where you mentioned your past and it sounds like you and I have some strong similarities. One in particular that I struggle with constantly is my temper which is a bit peppery (I've been told that I tend to understate a bit also) in fact I just got up into someone's face yesterday (Had to repent and then go back and apologize too... Definitely a work in progress). I think I understand where you come from and probably do not disagree with you on too many points but you said something that causes me to have to add my two cents worth. You said "I don't care if I repel the non-believers". The great commission was and is to take the "Good News" to ALL of the world not just the seekers of truth and young Christians. Yes, the Word does tend to offend the non-believer but a few diplomatic words can mean the difference between repelling a non-believer and creating a new truth seeker. A very wise man once told me in the process of an extremely painful lesson "We must not use the Bible as a club but as a sword... With a great deal of finesse for to win a convert we must first make a friend." Just a thought for your consideration.

I do agree and I guess I should qualify my statement. I was answering someone who was concerned that he might sound like a "now-it-all" which might repel a non-believer. My point was your point that we should boldly preach the gospel to everyone with the hope that some might accept the Word. But I have another hope and that is that I hope a seed is planted in the non-believer who is currently "turned off." Each of us have come to Christ in our own way and in our own time. I don't want to send a non-believer into a tail spin of self destruction. However, I'm not going to back down from non-believers because the name "Jesus Christ" offends them or repels them or causes them to think that I am a know-it-all. Can you see where I'm coming from. I believe that Christians, at some point, need to start standing up for the truth again instead of feeling guilty or ashamed for having their belief. You and I know that the mainstream media works diligently to ridicule and to misrepresent what true Christianity is. That constant barrage of negativity does have an affect on Christians and especially those new to the faith.

[ActionJackson]

DrJizzle agrees: Jesus Christ was a Jew... not a Christian

LOL. His name is Jesus "Christ." He did not follow the Pharisaic religion of Judaism but taught a religion that was brand new to the ears of those living in His day. Those who followed Him followed His example and accepted His teachings. By following and accepting Him, they were Christians by default. Christ was the first Christian.

[chaplain john]

Calika
Do you have a brain? (I'll assume your answer is yes) How do you know that you have a brain? Have you seen it or did some one tell you that you have one? Someone probably told you that you have one because very few have seen their own brains and those were in a picture that they were told that was theirs. The fact is that you BELIEVED some one when they told you that you had a brain.

Well, I have never seen God but I BELIEVE that he exists.

I also BELIEVE that Jesus, the Christ, died on the cross in my place.

I BELIEVE that he rose again on the third day just as it says in the Bible proving the resurrection that is to come.

I BELIEVE that the Bible is the infallible Word of God, written by Holy Men as God inspired them to write.

The Bible tells me that to every man (and woman) is given a measure of Faith and John 3:16 tells me "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life." NIV

I have used that measure of Faith

Have you? Or Will you?

It is such a simple program that many can't accept it or else they think that they must make it more difficult than it is.

Narrow minded... Not really but the gate IS narrow and The Way IS straight.

Hyppocrites... Some, but not all.

[ajcortez]

What events and figures have shaped the development of islam in the united states?

[arcura]

rachie,
I once was one of those who spoke out strongly against the Catholic Church and tried to turn people away from it.
Then I began wondering about my own Protestant faith that taught so much hate seeming to ignore in many cases the love Jesus taught.
So I started studying the Catholic Church's teachings to prove how wrong it was and that the hate of it was justified.
Amazing... The more I learned the more I found how wrong I was and how wrong much of what I had been taught from Sunday school on for 30 years was wrong.
That was over 40 years ago and after sampling several denomination I became a Catholic.
I firmly believe that anyone who really, truly understands the Catholic Church and it's teaching will either become a Catholic or if already one weill never leave it for
Another.
Listening to a denomination that is not Catholic to learn about the Catholic Church and its teaching is like going to a Ford dealer to find the truth about Chrysler cars.
If you do that you ain't going to get it.
It will be twisted, distorted, misrepresented and historically inaccurate, plus in many cases with lost of hate.
Now when I run into those who are as I once was I understand them and try to help them. But to often I find that they only help I can provide is prayer to the Holy Spirit for them for their mind is so firmly closed that I can not open them up.
So I'll just keep studying and learning more about Catholicism as I go through this life and hopefully be able to help those who will listen and are willing to learn.
There's 2000 years of wonderful history about The Church so I still have much yet to learn about it.
I'm 76 years old now and I hope and pray that God will give me more years to love and learn more about His Church.
Peace and kindness,
Fred (arcura)

[homesell]

Quote from Arcura -
"rachie,
I once was one of those who spoke out strongly against the Catholic Church and tried to turn people away from it.
Then I began wondering about my own Protestant faith that taught so much hate seeming to ignore in many cases the love Jesus taught.
So I started studying the Catholic Church's teachings to prove how wrong it was and that the hate of it was justified.
Amazing ....The more I learned the more I found how wrong I was and how wrong much of what I had been taught from Sunday school on for 30 years was wrong."

Fred, Rachie,
The whole problem is summed up where you say that much of what you were taught was wrong and that you were basically taught to hate others for one reason or another. It WAS wrong simply because it is not Biblical. Jesus loved and died for the very men that drove the spikes into his hands and heels and Judas that betrayed him. Any church that teaches anyone that ANYONE should be hated is wrong teaching. The only thing we are told to hate is OUR sin, that we do either in thought word or deed, and the SIN that others commit(sin being any unloving act.) NEVER to hate the sinner. Once again, I believe my signature says it all. The way we treat others is the way we are treating God that created them.

[NeedKarma]

Rachie hasn't posted here since 2008.

[speechlesstx]

Rachie hasn't posted here since 2008.

So?

[NeedKarma]

Thanks for contributing so eloquently Steve.

[speechlesstx]

Thanks for contributing so eloquently Steve.

Then let me add, what's your point?

[homesell]

You, thanks speechlesstx,
Needkarma, my comments were addressed to fred and Rachie, I simply answered her question not checking to see when it was asked. Just because she asked the question long ago, do you know for a fact that she no longer reads the answers posted here? And did you consider that even if she no longer reads the answers here that others aren't helped? Look at how many times this question has been looked at.

[speechlesstx]

ya, thanks speechlesstx,

You're welcome.

[NeedKarma]

ya, thanks speechlesstx,
Needkarma, my comments were addressed to fred and Rachie, I simply answered her question not checking to see when it was asked. Just because she asked the question long ago, do you know for a fact that she no longer reads the answers posted here? And did you consider that even if she no longer reads the answers here that others aren't helped? Look at how many times this question has been looked at.

I'm quite familiar with how internet forums work. Didn't want to to expect a reply, that's why I posted. I'm 99.9% certain that she doesn't visit this site anymore. The question was revived by a poster who posted a irrelevant homework question.