[sassyT]

What TOTAL NONSENSE is that ?
About half of all my posts are on the technical boards,

Yeah right... :rolleyes: don't lie to yourself

[Credendovidis]

yeah right... dont lie to yourself

That is the truth. I do not lie. I do not have to lie... Unlike you...

:D :rolleyes: :p ;) :D

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[Alty]

Sassy, in all fairness, Cred isn't lying, he does offer allot of advice on the technical boards.

Also, remember, the religious boards are for discussion amongst all faiths, that includes not believing in God. The Christianity board is for discussions about God with other like minded people, and Cred doesn't go on the Chrsitianity board, only the religious board.

So, open mind, otherwise yet another thread will be closed.

[tsila1777]

Sassy, in all fairness, Cred isn't lying, he does offer allot of advice on the technical boards.

Also, remember, the religious boards are for discussion amongst all faiths, that includes not believing in God. The Christianity board is for discussions about God with other like minded people, and Cred doesn't go on the Chrsitianity board, only the religious board.

So, open mind, otherwise yet another thread will be closed.

I realize this is a religious board, but is it not for questions and answers. To answer the question posted, not for mocking the ones who are trying to answer or discuss the question sincerely.

[Credendovidis]

..... To answer the question posted, not for mocking the ones who are trying to answer or discuss the question sincerely.

Than why do you post the way you do??

:rolleyes:

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[Alty]

[F realize this is a religious board, but is it not for questions and answers. To answer the question posted, not for mocking the ones who are trying to answer or discuss the question sincerely.

That is true, but unfortunately there is allot of mocking on both sides, you do have to admit that.

I was just pointing out a bit of truth, I do apologize for not sticking to the subject at hand, but that was already happening before I posted.

My purpose for posting was to clarify, trying to end the ensuing argument so that you all could get back to the original post.

Peace. :)

[tsila1777]

I did. I just did not find it necessary to react to each and every line in your post 113 any further than I did.

I note that you did not replied to the two simple questions I asked you :

- What TOTAL NONSENSE is that ?

- WHAT FOLLOWING are you babbling about?

you also said You still have problems with your paranoia, I see !!!

So you have no answers to that, I have to assume ....

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You said: About half of all my posts are on the technical boards, and about all others are on the members discussion boards, with most of those on this religious discussions board.



My response to this is: why?

It is not nonsense, you admit it is true. Can you tell me why you spend about half your time on religious sites? There must be something that keeps drawing you here as you keep asking for proof, it seems to me you are searching for a reason to believe.

Babbling? Why would you use this word to describe what I said? Babbling: Utter meaningless sounds, like a baby, or utter in an incoherent way.

I made myself very clear.

You admit it is true.

I do not have paranoia…I do have some problems but paranoia is not one of them. This was an unnecessary (attempt at a) put down.

I did not take offense; I am just pointing them out. If you have such disgust for Christians, why do you spend most of your time on religious discussion board? Can you answer that? No you can’t or you won’t…….

You posted what you believed …I countered showing you that your beliefs are also based on faith, and you cannot prove them either. To which you responded with insults.


So, now I have responded to your questions,I hope I have answered them to your satisfaction although they had nothing to do with the topic... will you answer me now?

Why is it you cannot prove what you believe? Yet you insist Christian should prove what we believe. You have been told a thousand times, and you have told us a thousand times... it is our belief, it is what we believe and it is by faith. We already know that, you do not need to keep telling us. We know it is by faith; we keep trying to get you to understand that we know it is by faith. Christianity is based on faith. Without faith, it is impossible to please God. There is a reason we cannot prove it…. then we would not need faith. Faith is the answer to the question you keep asking, in fact you answer your own questions... the answer is faith. We know it is what we believe, we know it is our belief. We have told you we that we cannot explain spiritual things to a carnal mind, you are just incapable of understanding it. That is not a put down; it is a simple fact. A person cannot explain faith to someone who does not want to understand or believe.

Spiritual things must be spiritually discerned. We do not need to prove it to you or anyone. Faith is what pleases God, because if we could prove it, we would not need faith, and we could not please God. This is what I believe. I know it is what I believe, and I cannot prove it. There is no proof. That is the way God intended it; we are saved by grace through faith. Without faith,…we could not be saved, and we could not please God. We do not have to prove to you that there is a God Who created the universe and everything in it. We do not have to prove God to you. We should be allowed the courtesy to discuss our beliefs without someone constantly telling us that is what we believe and there is no objective supported evidence…we do not care about evidence. We have the force of faith; and that is more powerful and wonderful than ‘evidence’.

The Word says: Faith is the substance of things hoped for, and the evidence of things not seen. So then faith is our evidence.

I am not saying you do not have the right to post here, or even that you are not welcome, but to constantly repeat to us, what we have agreed with you that you are right, is childish taunting. It’s like, OK we know already…what’s your point? Why don't you ask what you really want to know?



However…you say you believe in science, you gave Pascal’s wager as your objective supported evidence, you believe in history, You told me why you did not believe in the OT or the NT. To which I responded politely trying to explain these things to you. You did not respond to any of it, except to insult me, or at least you tried.

Now, do you have a responds to these:

you said Theism, you and all your theist peers can not provide any objective supported evidence towards the existence of their deity. I said Theistic evolution, less commonly known as evolutionary creationism, is the general opinion that some or all classical religious teachings about God and creation are compatible with some or all of the modern scientific understanding about biological evolution. Theistic evolution is not a theory in the scientific sense, but a particular view about how the science of evolution relates to some religious interpretations. In this way, theistic evolution supporters can be seen as one of the groups who deny the conflict thesis regarding the relationship between religion and science; that is, they hold that religious teachings about creation and scientific theories of evolution need not be contradictory. Psychology provides good reasons why the idea of a "fatherlike" god entity and of an afterlife helps many people to come to terms with disaster, illness, death, and the wish to see again those who over the years fell away. So, this is supposed to be evidence. Good reasons are not proof. Good reasons are opinions; it is what they believe. But you do not explain what those ‘good reasons’ were.
Why would that be a bad thing anyway?

Pascal himself didn't address the question of other religions in his section on the wager, presumably because throughout the rest of Pensées (and in his other works) he examined alternatives, like stoicism, paganism, Islam, and Judaism, and concluded that if any faith is correct, it would be the Christian faith.

And your response is...

[Credendovidis]

You said: About half of all my posts are on the technical boards, and about all others are on the members discussion boards, with most of those on this religious discussions board. My response to this is: why?

My response to that is : WHY NOT?
You AND I are both allowed to post on this discussion board. So why do I have to defend my presence and activities here?

... There must be something that keeps drawing you here as you keep asking for proof, it seems to me you are searching for a reason to believe.

My line of approach is NOT to ask for proof for your religious BELIEF. I always first ask everyone to acknowledge that whatever he/she religiously believes is just that : BELIEF !
Only when they refuse to do that in previous posts, I ask them to back up their statements by providing proof for whatever they CLAIM to be true.

As to your "babbling" : I never have seen you to be a clear and meaningful communicator. You even at times use "misrepresentations of the truth" to support your own statements. (For instance with "You admit it is true" - No I did NOT do that ! ).

If you have such disgust for Christians, why do you spend most of your time on religious discussion board? Can you answer that? No you can't or you won't…….

Another "misrepresentation of the truth"! Yes I can, and yes I did. Many times before.

Besides that this is a RELIGIOUS DISCUSSION BOARD where Christians have the same status as I have (we are all no more than participants in discussions on religion), I have no disgust for Christians at all. From me you may BELIEVE what ever suits you. My basic message here is that whatever you BELIEVE that does not elevate your views into reality. To convince others from what you BELIEVE to be reality is up to you and co-BELIEVERS who have to prove that what they BELIEVE is reality. And in that process I do not have to prove the opposite.

===

You can make your posts as long as you want. But I limit my responses.
Specially as I note that you still did not reply to the two simple questions I asked you :

- What TOTAL NONSENSE is that ?
- WHAT FOLLOWING are you babbling about?

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

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[tsila1777]

My response to that is : WHY NOT?
You AND I are both allowed to post on this discussion board. So why do I have to defend my presence and activities here?


My line of approach is NOT to ask for proof for your religious BELIEF. I always first ask everyone to acknowledge that whatever he/she religiously believes is just that : BELIEF !
Only when they refuse to do that in previous posts, I ask them to back up their statements by providing proof for whatever they CLAIM to be true.

As to your "babbling" : I never have seen you to be a clear and meaningful communicator. You even at times use "misrepresentations of the truth" to support your own statements. (For instance with "You admit it is true" - No I did NOT do that ! ).


Another "misrepresentation of the truth"! Yes I can, and yes I did. Many times before.

Besides that this is a RELIGIOUS DISCUSSION BOARD where Christians have the same status as I have (we are all no more than participants in discussions on religion), I have no disgust for Christians at all. From me you may BELIEVE what ever suits you. My basic message here is that whatever you BELIEVE that does not elevate your views into reality. To convince others from what you BELIEVE to be reality is up to you and co-BELIEVERS who have to prove that what they BELIEVE is reality. And in that process I do not have to prove the opposite.

===

You can make your posts as long as you want. But I limit my responses.
Specially as I note that you still did not reply to the two simple questions I asked you :

- What TOTAL NONSENSE is that ?
- WHAT FOLLOWING are you babbling about?
I did answer those questions but you still have not responded to these...



·

Now, do you have a responds to these:

you said Theism, you and all your theist peers can not provide any objective supported evidence towards the existence of their deity. I said Theistic evolution, less commonly known as evolutionary creationism, is the general opinion that some or all classical religious teachings about God and creation are compatible with some or all of the modern scientific understanding about biological evolution. Theistic evolution is not a theory in the scientific sense, but a particular view about how the science of evolution relates to some religious interpretations. In this way, theistic evolution supporters can be seen as one of the groups who deny the conflict thesis regarding the relationship between religion and science; that is, they hold that religious teachings about creation and scientific theories of evolution need not be contradictory. Psychology provides good reasons why the idea of a "fatherlike" god entity and of an afterlife helps many people to come to terms with disaster, illness, death, and the wish to see again those who over the years fell away. So, this is supposed to be evidence. Good reasons are not proof. Good reasons are opinions; it is what they believe. But you do not explain what those ‘good reasons’ were.
Why would that be a bad thing anyway?

Pascal himself didn't address the question of other religions in his section on the wager, presumably because throughout the rest of Pensées (and in his other works) he examined alternatives, like stoicism, paganism, Islam, and Judaism, and concluded that if any faith is correct, it would be the Christian faith.

[tsila1777]

As to your "babbling" : I never have seen you to be a clear and meaningful communicator.:confused:

And this is not babbling?:confused:

It is just your opinion, your belief, and that means nothing to me.
You keep trying, Cred, but you cannot get to me.:p


I have never seen you answer the hard questions.
:rolleyes:

[Alty]

As to your "babbling" : I never have seen you to be a clear and meaningful communicator.:confused:

And this is not babbling?:confused:

It is just your opinion, your belief, and that means nothing to me.
You keep trying, Cred, but you cannot get to me.:p
I have never seen you answer the hard questions.
:rolleyes:

How long before you stop trying to get to him?

[tsila1777]

How long before you stop trying to get to him?

He gave me a list of reasons he does not believe in God,these were suppose to be proof that God is not real.

Pascal himself didn't address the question of other religions in his section on the wager, presumably because throughout the rest of Pensées (and in his other works) he examined alternatives, like stoicism, paganism, Islam, and Judaism, and concluded that if any faith is correct, it would be the Christian faith.

I showed him that every one of them were just his belief and were fallible, and even that those he holds in such high regard actually acknowledged that the Christian belief has the most credibility. He chose to ignore all this and attack me with childish tactics to throw me off the subject.

He keeps asking for proof, I was trying to show him in that post that even though we cannot ‘prove’ God is real and we can only go by our faith, the ‘evidence’ he gave to prove his opinions were actually helpful in proving our faith has some validity even in his world.

We have told him that we cannot prove God, and we know it is only our belief. How many times does he need this explained to him? He insists that we have to ‘prove’ our belief; I am just curious why he wants proof? Is it because he wants to believe? Is he looking for a reason to believe? I think so. I also know we do not have to prove our belief, just because he says so.

I do not understand why you ask me this. I am being much kinder to him than I feel toward him, but the Holy Spirit restrains me to a point. I was in the past a hateful B, and much worse, but God saved me anyway. I am trying to be a better person; I do not always succeed. I am sorry if I offended you or Cred, but he insists on getting personal with me, attacking my mental status, my writing abilities and making fun, mocking me, all completely off topic.

I never said I was perfect and in this life, I never will be in the flesh. However, I am perfect in Christ that is what I believe. I believe Christ died for the ungodly that included the whole world. Those that do not accept Christ and His sacrifice will miss eternal life and inherit eternal damnation.
If I can ‘get to him’ in a way that causes him to ‘think’ about it, that would be a good thing would it not?

[Alty]

Tsila, you are making excuses, sorry, but it's true.

The fact is that you will not convince Cred of God without Objective Supportive Evidence, therefore, any attempt to prove God by other means is pointless. You seem to remember everything else he's said, did the request for OSE slip by?

Just because he doesn't believe, doesn't mean that you have to listen to his reasoning. You believe, isn't that enough?

Of course you cannot prove God, I don't think anyone can, that's why it's a belief. I believe too, I understand what belief entails.

Is he looking for a reason to believe? Maybe, with OSE, but not by any other means.

I see this thread being closed very soon if this continues. Both of you are attacking each other, feeding off your differing opinions. I understand that too. I've fought with Cred before, but I won't anymore, I can't provide the evidence he seeks, so why fight about it? Can he be rude, yes, he can, so can allot of other people, myself included, and you as well. You're giving as good as you get dear, and that's how it will continue, until the thread is closed.

I'm not Christian, so maybe I'm wrong, but there is a difference between spreading the "word" of God and shoving it down someone's throat. Especially if that person has repeatedly told you that they do not believe. This will not end the way you want. In fact, the longer you continue posting, the more frustrated you will be, that's a fact.

If I can 'get to him' in a way that causes him to 'think' about it, that would be a good thing would it not?

If you "get to him"? Can I ask you something? Is he "getting" to you? Are you going to stop believing in God because of Creds posts? If not, then what makes you think he will believe because of yours? Is it a struggle between you two? Who can be the rudest, who can sling the most mud? Well, my question is this, who will turn the other cheek, and walk away?

Will it be the Christian or the Atheist?

[tsila1777]

If you "get to him"? Can I ask you something? Is he "getting" to you? Are you going to stop believing in God because of Creds posts?

No, in fact I think, I will just ignore him, since it is pointless to try to have a normal conversation with him anyway. And I was not making excuses. I really wanted to know what he had say, but he won't say... so you're right what's the point?

[Alty]

Glad to hear it. I really am just trying to step in before War insues. I value your opinion, and I respect your right to believe what you want.

No one can take away what you believe, what's in your heart. Just remember that and you'll be fine.

God Bless. :)

[Credendovidis]

Glad to hear it. I really am just trying to step in before War insues. I value your opinion, and I respect your right to believe what you want. No one can take away what you believe, what's in your heart. Just remember that and you'll be fine.

No need to "step in". I also have decide to return to my fixed routine to point out what is based on BELIEF and what is based on OSE (Objective Supported Evidence).
As I have always stated : from me anyone may BELIEVE whatever suits him or her. What is however incorrect is suggesting or assuming - even on this board - that what one believes is also the truth (or reality, or correct, or factual, or proper, etc.)
What one BELIEVES may be correct, but if it is that requires OSE, not belief, or other claims, or suggestive support !

Nobody has for me to prove that whatever god(s) exist(s). But if you don't or can't prove that (and nobody can), than at least do not make statements that suggest that or include such a claim.

Your topic line is excellent. Fine that you believe that. But actually he did not do that. Jesus was a Jew, who preached mainly to Jews!

:rolleyes:

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[tsila1777]

Fine that you believe that. But actually he did not do that. Jesus was a Jew, who preached mainly to Jews!

Prove it!!

Sorry Altenweg

[Alty]

Tsila, you don't have to be sorry, it's your choice, and you do have the freedom to choose.

[Alty]

Cred, I truly do understand where you are coming from. Correct me if I'm wrong.

I will admit that people basing their beliefs on the bible (a man written book) is not proof that God exists. Quoting the bible isn't proof.

What Cred is requesting is that you use the word belief, not fact, and it is indeed a belief. No one has ever been able to prove the existence of God, it is faith and faith alone, but faith isn't fact.

Tsila,

You do have a right to your belief, nes pas? If you do, then why do you deny others their beliefs? Because you are Christian, it is your mission in life to spread the word of God, because the bible tells you so, because your Church tells you so, a man written book, and a man run institution.

Without the Bible, without Church, what do you have? Would you still believe? Why do you feel the need to preach to someone who has admitted that he does not believe in God? Is it to save him, or yourself?

Remember, I am a believer, perhaps more so than some, as I do not base my beliefs on the bible or Church, but on pure belief, feeling in my heart and soul that God is real. I don't need a book or building a man or congregation to tell me so.

Do I have proof? Of course not, you can't prove God, it's not possible, that's why it is a belief.

To both of you,

I'm sorry I stepped in, I really was just trying to prevent another thread from being closed down.

And I also didn't see anyone getting closer to resolving this, so I tried to end it peacefully.

Having said that, the crux is on you, if this is what you choose.

Peace. :)

[Credendovidis]

Cred, I truly do understand where you are coming from. Correct me if I'm wrong.
I will admit that people basing their beliefs on the bible (a man written book) is not proof that God exists. Quoting the bible isn't proof.
What Cred is requesting is that you use the word belief, not fact, and it is indeed a belief. No one has ever been able to prove the existence of God, it is faith and faith alone, but faith isn't fact.

That describes my position rather well !
All I ask is not to post what people BELIEVE to be true as if it is an actual fact.
That this is a religious discussion board is no reason to make wild claims.

As to the right of others to "spread the word of God" : besides that the bible has never been proved to be the word of god, I have no problem at all with Christians trying to spread that "word". Fine with me.
But not ad nauseum to those who clearly have indicated before that they are not interested in that "word". There is nothing in the bible that demands Christians to spread the "word" against people's wishes.

:rolleyes:

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