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talaniman · Jan 15, 2015, 06:32 AM

Fear hate and resentment is what emphasizes the differences, and its not at all unusual for integration to take years if not generations. That's pretty much the history of man as migration and immigration goes on constantly, and always will. Lets face it, minority immigrants have always been pressured to assimilate, not always an easy thing to do or an easy thing to forget your own culture. Even harder when laws are made to erase the cultural backgrounds of incoming immigrants.

I think the notion that one has to abandon their culture to be a part of the national culture is where the drivel starts, because if you embrace the notion that multiculturalism cannot work, then you lose the ability to rise to the challenge of making it work, and we retreat to the tribal boundaries of years long gone and accept that dictators and conquerors set the rules.

I submit the US as an example that it can work, albeit not without conflict and struggle, very similar to the current French model where fundamentalist have voiced their displeasure at any compromise except that of the new immigrant, be they jew, or muslim at this point. It's that zeal to preserve the cultural purity that stand in the way of tribal cooperation and effective progress. Its been shown in human history though that it can be overcome in time, and many ancient battles and disputes can be dealt with... until the NEXT conflict.

Its an inevitable process as the modern world gets more modern and shrinks the time and distance between cultures. For sure its never pretty, or smooth, but I don't see it stopping, or slowing down any time soon. Though haters and beetchers will and have tried their best.

tomder55 · Jan 15, 2015, 09:12 AM

nah. In the past it was one generation tops .

I submit the US as an example that it can work, albeit not without conflict and struggle

That's because the US believed in assimilation . The melting pot meant that the US adopted some of the culture of the immigrant ;and the immigrant became culturally American. Now it is more difficult because we are being taught to not have pride in our national identity and culture. We are a hyphenated country .

talaniman · Jan 15, 2015, 09:34 AM

So what? You find something wrong in being both or many? There is a growing trend as the "races" mix for naturally multicultural citizens. Why can't they celebrate the differences instead of making them an object of derision?

I find it a thing of national pride that we can be so diverse. And not just European, but globally diverse.

tomder55 · Jan 15, 2015, 10:36 AM

diversity is fine . But if there isn't one defining national culture then you risk Balkanization . I am concerned that is where this country is headed . The United States is much more than 'a common border' .That alone does not define a nation. We will no longer be Americans any more than Yugoslavians are now Yugoslavians . I remind you that we got to witness the disintigration of Yugoslavia and it was not pretty . I'll say it again . The quickest way to destroy America is to deconstruct it's common culture and identity ,and a common law. The French have done everything wrong by giving incentive to Muslim immigrants to not only resist all assimilation, but to establish a separate country within a country. The emperor repeats it here by assuring illegal immigrants that there will be no penalty for their violations of our laws.

paraclete · Jan 15, 2015, 12:54 PM

Tom is right, no one asked the immigrant to forget where they came from but within our borders they must submit to our laws and meet the norms of our society not duplicate the place where they came from otherwise one day you will have an explosion. It is apparent that even if populations have been there for generations if there is no assimulation eventually they become isolated

talaniman · Jan 15, 2015, 02:00 PM

Obama is hardly the first president to offer amnesty for immigrants who didn't follow the immigration law to the letter. Don't most people become immigrant because of bad situations in their homeland? At least so far presidents have recognized this and made allowance without tearing families apart and Mr. Obama is no different. A piece of paper doesn't change your humanity, nor should you be penalized for your fear for your life and liberty, or just wanting a chance. To not recognize this is inhumane in of itself.

Hell most citizens in America don't exactly practice being a citizen to perfection, but you should get over the notion that your humanity is better than another, and stop trying to dictate what "they" should do and what "they" deserve. That's a good one Tom, comparing the US to Yugoslavia.

Just so you know Clete, many people choose to isolate themselves from the rest of us and live the way they so choose. Nothing wrong with that at all.

paraclete · Jan 15, 2015, 02:31 PM

You know Tal isolation is sometimes an idea with merit now if we could just get some people to isolate themselves...

talaniman · Jan 15, 2015, 02:51 PM

No telling what people will do when pushed by those who take moral authority a bit too far. They may want to isolate YOU, or worse.

paraclete · Jan 15, 2015, 03:07 PM

Hmm, we understand isolation Tal but sometimes we would like a little more of it, as to moral authority, such a term is relative to the culture so it seems. I doubt you would submit to the moral authority of the immans and nor would I, a bridge too far perhaps, but nor would I submit to the moral authority of a secular authority with no morals where the end justifies the means. I think we have lost the ability to discern between the two

talaniman · Mar 5, 2015, 03:11 PM

Breaking News

DOJ blasts Ferguson police in 'searing' report | www.ajc.com

WASHINGTON — The Department of Justice's report on the Ferguson Police Department was released Wednesday, and it turns out to be even more damning than the early leaks suggested. The report describes everything from harassment to excessive use of force to the unfair targeting of African-Americans just to help balance the city's budget.

tomder55 · Mar 5, 2015, 04:46 PM

yeah the DOJ was not happy that they couldn't pin a charge on officer Wilson . So as a parting shot they' indicted 'the whole force. Holder is a pathetic individual . The Dems are right ....... The Repubics should do everything necessary to expedite the end of Holder's sorry tenure and to install Loretta Lynch . She can't possibly be worse . All this report does is to open the scab in the hope to incite more rioting . You would think Holder and Sharpton had already done enough damage.

paraclete · Mar 6, 2015, 06:53 PM

No Tom racists can never do enough damage but then being in defense of people of colour cannot be racist can it, people of colour are never racist. One day someone will decide there are only one type of people in this world and then we will be able to say a criminal is a criminal

Catsmine · Mar 6, 2015, 07:16 PM

Originally Posted by paraclete

people of colour are never racist.

The greatest lie of the 20th Century.

paraclete · Mar 7, 2015, 04:34 AM

That's what I was pointing out, doesn't excuse other racist acts in the twentieth century but we have to get past all that and realise people are people.

Brown was a petty criminal and his acts were those of a criminal, not some down trodden home boy being brutalised by the police. The acts of those who called for the police station to be burnt down were racist. Now maybe the community should have had more sensitive policing but that is being wise after the event and may not have changed the outcome.

The thing is there are disadvantaged communities all over and they are a breeding ground for crime and this has to be recognised. Most kids get exposed to petty crime and they have the opportunity to decide whether they go along or not. Brown made his decision

Catsmine · Mar 7, 2015, 04:53 AM

Originally Posted by paraclete

That's what I was pointing out

I was agreeing with you, but without the sarcasm. You did the sarcasm fine all by yourself.

talaniman · Mar 7, 2015, 05:57 AM

If you accept that minorities are racists, then you have to accept the majority are racists also. But which one can actually affect the lives of the other adversely because of that racism? One would think that the minorities react to the majority with hate because the majority hates them, and has the power to deny them the basic expressions of freedoms that the majority enjoys.

I mean just the fact the majority can still to this day impose its will on minorities and subject them to policies and practices under the guise of law, that adversely affects their freedom to exercise their rights should give you pause to examine those policies and practices.

It's like the big bad wolf selling the pigs straw for their house so he can always blow it down at his leisure, while making sure they cannot afford bricks to build a better house. Such policies and practices are pervasive throughout the country, and caught on tape, and documented, and its deeper than just a small town in Missouri.

So lets not equate the minority expressing their displeasure of the majorities mistreatment of them, as the same racism the majority has imposed on the minorities. They are NOT the same at all as a minority can only holler, but the majority can not only holler, they can justify denying the minority the right to practice his freedom, and has making when he does, ILLEGAL.

By definition a minority cannot be a racist,

Racism - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary

So who has power over who? A minority has no power to affect the lives of the majority, so how can the minority be a racist? Not liking the majorities treatment of the minority doesn't equate to racism.

Catsmine · Mar 7, 2015, 09:42 AM

Originally Posted by talaniman

If you accept that minorities are racists, then you have to accept the majority are racists also. But which one can actually affect the lives of the other adversely because of that racism? One would think that the minorities react to the majority with hate because the majority hates them, and has the power to deny them the basic expressions of freedoms that the majority enjoys.

I mean just the fact the majority can still to this day impose its will on minorities and subject them to policies and practices under the guise of law, that adversely affects their freedom to exercise their rights should give you pause to examine those policies and practices.

It's like the big bad wolf selling the pigs straw for their house so he can always blow it down at his leisure, while making sure they cannot afford bricks to build a better house. Such policies and practices are pervasive throughout the country, and caught on tape, and documented, and its deeper than just a small town in Missouri.

So lets not equate the minority expressing their displeasure of the majorities mistreatment of them, as the same racism the majority has imposed on the minorities. They are NOT the same at all as a minority can only holler, but the majority can not only holler, they can justify denying the minority the right to practice his freedom, and has making when he does, ILLEGAL.

By definition a minority cannot be a racist,

Racism - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary

So who has power over who? A minority has no power to affect the lives of the majority, so how can the minority be a racist? Not liking the majorities treatment of the minority doesn't equate to racism.

What a sterling example of the collectivist mindset. Majorities and minorities don't do anything. Individuals hate. Individuals treat others poorly. Otherwise Bill Clinton and David Duke are equivalent, both being southern white boys. Likewise Sheila Jackson Lee and Condoleezza Rice.

tomder55 · Mar 7, 2015, 01:31 PM

just the fact the majority can still to this day impose its will on minorities and subject them to policies and practices under the guise of law, that adversely affects their freedom to exercise their rights should give you pause to examine those policies and practices.

you can't be serious . The charge that the Justice Dept leveled against the Ferguson police was that they used traffic stops to enhance the township revenues. That happens in every town in America....witness the stink that the Sandanista Mayor of NYC made when the cops slowed down. Only Holder's Justice Dept could turn that into bias policy born of racism . They see racism where none exists.

talaniman · Mar 7, 2015, 01:58 PM

Or maybe you cannot see racism where it does exist. You wouldn't be alone.

paraclete · Mar 7, 2015, 02:45 PM

By definition a minority cannot be a racist,

That is absolute nonsense, do you live in a bubble? Look beyond your borders if you are unable to see racism at home. ISIS, for example; a minority and racist as well as many other things. The fact is Tal minorities are just as racist as majorities they are just less able to enforce their racism, racism is an attitude of mind. Sometimes it comes out of being over exposed to a particular group and their overt racism

How many minorities insist upon marriage within their group, this is racism. How many minorities turn their neighbourhoods into ghettos slowly forcing others out, where only their kind are welcome, this is racism in action