[EmoPrincess]

oops. my bad *shrugs*

s'all good!

[Alty]

Basically the Goth Rock look or bizarre eye makeup is a thing of the 1980's and is definitely in the past. The look is probably very popular over in Germany as a lot of young adults missed the 1980's over there and are now catching up. And this is definitely a gay look with all the chains, etc. as well as the dude looks like a lady.

What part of I'm not fooled by he's "straight" don't you understand? No real man wants to look like a woman unless he has a head full of bad wiring which this person obviously does. He needs therapy and lots of it if indeed he is "straight". (Which I seriously doubt that he is).

Twinkie, are you homophobic?

I dated a guy that looked a lot like him once, not as pretty, but he did the eyeliner, chains, long hair, black nail polish. Trust me, he wasn't gay.

So what if this guy is gay? Does it matter? Just because he wears makeup and has long hair doesn't make him gay. Would you want to be judged by your outward appearance?

If he's not gay, I'd date him, he's gorgeous. I can't stop looking at that picture, he truly is beautiful, gay, straight, male, female, there's something striking about him, with makeup, without. It's called a gimmick and bands have been doing it forever.

It really is sad that some people are so intolerant just because of the way a person dresses or what they wear on their face.

Judge not lest you be judged. :)

[hheath541]

Twinkie, are you homophobic?

I dated a guy that looked a lot like him once, not as pretty, but he did the eyeliner, chains, long hair, black nail polish. Trust me, he wasn't gay.

So what if this guy is gay? Does it matter? Just because he wears makeup and has long hair doesn't make him gay. Would you want to be judged by your outward appearance?

If he's not gay, I'd date him, he's gorgeous. I can't stop looking at that picture, he truly is beautiful, gay, straight, male, female, there's something striking about him, with makeup, without. It's called a gimmick and bands have been doing it forever.

It really is sad that some people are so intolerant just because of the way a person dresses or what they wear on their face.

Judge not lest you be judged. :)

Have to spread the rep.

I just wanted to say, I would even date him, and I'm not into guys. It's not even just that fact that he's attractive, which he is. You can just tell that he's confident and comfortable with who he is. Both of which are attractive in anyone.

[Alty]

have to spread the rep.

i just wanted to say, i would even date him, and I'm not into guys. it's not even just that fact that he's attractive, which he is. you can just tell that he's confident and comfortable with who he is. both of which are attractive in anyone.

Exactly!

Also, being German myself, I know the culture and this isn't anything that would be alarming or off to anyone in Germany. I guess having been raised German I don't see things the way that others do. Personally, I'm okay with that.

Maybe it's acceptance that everyone is different and they should be allowed to be who they are without being judged.

I just find it odd that how a person looks would cause anger and hate.

Also, if he is gay (which he claims he's not) then what's the big deal? Is it worse if he's gay and wears makeup? If so, why? I just don't understand. I guess I never will.

[hheath541]

Exactly!

Also, being German myself, I know the culture and this isn't anything that would be alarming or off to anyone in Germany. I guess having been raised German I don't see things the way that others do. Personally, I'm okay with that.

Maybe it's acceptance that everyone is different and they should be allowed to be who they are without being judged.

I just find it odd that how a person looks would cause anger and hate.

Also, if he is gay (which he claims he's not) then what's the big deal? Is it worse if he's gay and wears makeup? If so, why? I just don't understand. I guess I never will.

I wanted to say that his look would be seen as 'normal' in germany, but I couldn't figure out where I'd drawn that conclusion from. I'm glad it wasn't wrong.

Unfortunately, I don't find it odd that someone's appearance could cause anger and hate. I've seen it too many times, and been the subject of it more than once.

I had notes and signs placed on my dorm room door on a few occasions because of how I look and who I chose to associate with. My sexuality was usually the focus of the attacks. My religion ran a close second.

Even now, it's not safe for me to be completely honest about who I am. I live in a county where homophobia is the accepted norm. I run the risk of verbal, and possibly even physical, attacks if I go out in public wearing rainbows. If I'm open about my religion, I risk being labeled a satanist or witch.

So, I live in the closet quietly with the door open and hope the wrong people don't notice me. I watch what I say and who I say it to. Sometimes I even pretend to be something I'm not. I do my best to never outright lie, but I try not to make the truth too obvious. It's a dance I've been practicing for longer than I can remember.

Alty, if he were gay, it would easier for people (at least american people) to accept the fact that he wears make-up. Effeminate affectations, like wearing make-up or having long hair, stereotypically belong on gay men. Preconceived notions of gender and masculinity become challenged when a straight man chooses to adopt those affectations.

Many americans just can't reconcile a straight man choosing to do or wear things typically associated with women, and they react with anger and hate to cover the fear and confusion. It's easier to hate something you don't understand than to take the time and effort to learn how to understand and accept it.

[ohsohappy]

I feel like the american culture is getting better about the way they view people though.

[hheath541]

Yes, but it is a slow and lopsided process. And there will always be people who will accept alternative life styles in theory, but will unable to accept them in reality.

[Alty]

It's a very slow process. I do understand, in theory, why some people have such a hard time with this. But I can't understand why people aren't willing to look past what's on the outside and see a person for who they are.

I am raising my kids the way my parents raised me, with tolerance and understanding for everyone. If my son or daughter told me they were gay, that would be fine with me. The only thing that would concern me are the things you mentioned Heath, the way others would treat them because of who they are. That would scare me to death because sadly I do know how intolerant many people still are about something that cannot be changed. Being gay isn't a choice, any more then being straight is. At least here in Canada, gays can marry, can be a family and live together as a couple, openly. Still there is hate, that's universal and I can't see it changing completely.

As long as there is one person out there with prejudice, more prejudice will be born and raised. Those people that choose to instill hate in their children are no better then child abusers, in my mind.

It makes me so angry, especially because there's nothing I can do about it except make sure that my children and my family aren't part of the problem.

We really have gone off topic on this thread, especially seeing that it's in the "humor and comedy" section. It doesn't seem funny, never did. I think we should ask the mods to move this to a discussion forum so that we continue this discussion, because I really think it needs to be discussed. Can I say discuss one more time?

I'll ask the mods to move it. :)

[hheath541]

It's a very slow process. I do understand, in theory, why some people have such a hard time with this. But I can't understand why people aren't willing to look past what's on the outside and see a person for who they are.

I am raising my kids the way my parents raised me, with tolerance and understanding for everyone. If my son or daughter told me they were gay, that would be fine with me. The only thing that would concern me are the things you mentioned Heath, the way others would treat them because of who they are. That would scare me to death because sadly I do know how intolerant many people still are about something that cannot be changed. Being gay isn't a choice, any more then being straight is. At least here in Canada, gays can marry, can be a family and live together as a couple, openly. Still there is hate, that's universal and I can't see it changing completely.

As long as there is one person out there with prejudice, more prejudice will be born and raised. Those people that choose to instill hate in their children are no better then child abusers, in my mind.

It makes me so angry, especially because there's nothing I can do about it except make sure that my children and my family aren't part of the problem.

We really have gone off topic on this thread, especially seeing that it's in the "humor and comedy" section. It doesn't seem funny, never did. I think we should ask the mods to move this to a discussion forum so that we continue this discussion, because I really think it needs to be discussed. Can I say discuss one more time?

I'll ask the mods to move it. :)

A lot of the abuse associate with being gay is a matter of perception. You can choose to take it personally, or you can choose to try to educate them.

The first note I got on my door said, 'we hate weird dikes.' I chose to correct her spelling, thank her for taking the time and effort to make the note and decorate it, and left it on my door to show that I could not be intimidated.

Thankfully, I have never been the target of physical violence.

I'd thought of suggesting moving this to another forum, I just never did. The discussion forum would be the best place for it, if for no other reason than to avoid reddies. There has already been at least one that was completely undeserved, and another that I suspect was given, at least partially, as pay-back.

[Alty]

It's been moved. Thanks mods. :)

I have a few gay friends, some bi-sexual friends and of course straight friends. I don't define them that way though. That's not who they are, or what they are, that's just a preference, just like my being heterosexual is a preference.

I'm glad that you've never had a physical confrontation because of your sexual preference. I hope you never do. How someone could hate someone so much, someone they don't even know, just because of who they're attracted to, it's mind boggling. I can't understand it and I won't accept it.

I do think that it's a lack of education, tolerance, the way someone's raised. How to change that I don't know, all I know is that we have to try.

[hheath541]

It's been moved. Thanks mods. :)

I have a few gay friends, some bi-sexual friends and of course straight friends. I don't define them that way though. That's not who they are, or what they are, that's just a preference, just like my being heterosexual is a preference.

I'm glad that you've never had a physical confrontation because of your sexual preference. I hope you never do. How someone could hate someone so much, someone they don't even know, just because of who they're attracted to, it's mind boggling. I can't understand it and I won't accept it.

I do think that it's a lack of education, tolerance, the way someone's raised. How to change that I don't know, all I know is that we have to try.

The only way to change it is to begin education at a young age. Children have to be taught about alternative life styles and taught that they're OK.

Until it becomes commonplace to see couples of all shapes, sizes, and orientations holding hands and kissing in public without harassment, nothing will change. Until people are judged by who they are, not who they like or what the wear or believe in, nothing will change. As long as people choose to remain ignorant of other life styles, nothing will change.

[Alty]

the only way to change it is to begin education at a young age. children have to be taught about alternative life styles and taught that they're ok.

until it becomes commonplace to see couples of all shapes, sizes, and orientations holding hands and kissing in public without harassment, nothing will change. until people are judged by who they are, not who they like or what the wear or believe in, nothing will change. as long as people choose to remain ignorant of other life styles, nothing will change.

Again I wish I could rep you.

A few years ago, when Jared was around 7 years old the neighbor boy that he plays with had a friend over. Jared has always been a very affectionate child and when he saw his friend he ran up to him and hugged him. That's how we are, we're very huggy people.

The friend that was over called Jared a "faggot" and hit him, telling him to leave and never come back. Jared's friend didn't know what to do, he stood up for Jared but Jared was so upset that he came running home.

He came running through the door in tears, so upset. It took a while for him to calm down enough for him to tell me what had happened. Then he asked "what's a faggot? Am I one? Is it bad?"

So I explained. First I told him that I didn't like the word faggot and I would not tolerate it. I told him that it was a bad word and that the appropriate word was gay or homosexual. I then explained, in a way that a 7 year old would understand and accept, what being gay meant.

My sweet child, so innocent, looked at me and said "why is that wrong? Why is it a bad thing? Does it matter who you love?"

I could have cried, not because of his innocence, but because of his understanding.

We marched over to the neighbors house, the two boys were in the backyard. I pulled them aside and we had a long talk. The boy that had called Jared the name and hit him got an earful from me. He was always a problem though, so much so that Jared wasn't allowed to go near him. I didn't want that influence around my son.

Jared is now 11 and even though he likes girls, he's doesn't view being gay as a bad thing, or even that different. It's normal to him that people love who they love and it shouldn't matter what sex they are.

[earl237]

Many people think his look is strange but look at pictures of glam metal bands like Motley Crue, Poison and Whitesnake from 1985. That look was common back then and not considered gay. Everyone including me had a mullet and leather jacket back then. I miss those days when mullets were cool and not associated with criminals and losers.

[Alty]

Many people think his look is strange but look at pictures of glam metal bands like Motley Crue, Poison and Whitesnake from 1985. That look was common back then and not considered gay. Everyone including me had a mullet and leather jacket back then. I miss those days when mullets were cool and not associated with criminals and losers.

Earl, I'm going to need pictures of you with a mullet. ;)

[earl237]

Good one, hopefully no pictures of me with a mullet still exist!

[cdad]

Exactly!

Also, being German myself, I know the culture and this isn't anything that would be alarming or off to anyone in Germany. I guess having been raised German I don't see things the way that others do. Personally, I'm okay with that.

Maybe it's acceptance that everyone is different and they should be allowed to be who they are without being judged.

I just find it odd that how a person looks would cause anger and hate.

Also, if he is gay (which he claims he's not) then what's the big deal? Is it worse if he's gay and wears makeup? If so, why? I just don't understand. I guess I never will.

What I don't quite understand here is that you have this belief that since its in Germany no one is put off by it. Im sure there are thousands that are. Its no different then here as far as younger vs older generations. Traditionalist vs Progressive. Sure there are different attitudes there then here or where you are and that's what makes it unique. But it in no way makes it a node for mass acceptance of the anything goes attitude.

[hheath541]

Again I wish I could rep you.

A few years ago, when Jared was around 7 years old the neighbor boy that he plays with had a friend over. Jared has always been a very affectionate child and when he saw his friend he ran up to him and hugged him. That's how we are, we're very huggy people.

The friend that was over called Jared a "faggot" and hit him, telling him to leave and never come back. Jared's friend didn't know what to do, he stood up for Jared but Jared was so upset that he came running home.

He came running through the door in tears, so upset. It took a while for him to calm down enough for him to tell me what had happened. Then he asked "what's a faggot? Am I one? Is it bad?"

So I explained. First I told him that I didn't like the word faggot and I would not tolerate it. I told him that it was a bad word and that the appropriate word was gay or homosexual. I then explained, in a way that a 7 year old would understand and accept, what being gay meant.

My sweet child, so innocent, looked at me and said "why is that wrong? Why is it a bad thing? Does it matter who you love?"

I could have cried, not because of his innocence, but because of his understanding.

We marched over to the neighbors house, the two boys were in the backyard. I pulled them aside and we had a long talk. The boy that had called Jared the name and hit him got an earful from me. He was always a problem though, so much so that Jared wasn't allowed to go near him. I didn't want that influence around my son.

Jared is now 11 and even though he likes girls, he's doesn't view being gay as a bad thing, or even that different. It's normal to him that people love who they love and it shouldn't matter what sex they are.

children are amazing. They can and will accept just about anyone for who they are, as long as no one poisons them against them.

you are raising a couple of amazing children, which means you must be an amazing mother ^_^

[EmoPrincess]

Some kids can be geniuses with compassion and openness, others can gang up on you and hold you down to a chair, cover your mouth with the teacher's scotch tape, force as makeover on you (by cutting your hair, making nails and stabbing them into your fingers and when that doesn't work, stapling them on, doing a makeshift wax job on your eyebrows with superglue, and using tweezers from the science center to rip out every hair on your arms and legs one by one), all because you hugged your girlfriend in 4th grade

[EmoPrincess]

O! I forgot about the sharpie makeup, that too

[hheath541]

Some kids can be geniuses with compassion and openness, others can gang up on you and hold you down to a chair, cover your mouth with the teacher's scotch tape, force as makeover on you (by cutting your hair, making nails and stabbing them into your fingers and when that doesn't work, stapling them on, doing a makeshift wax job on your eyebrows with superglue, and using tweezers from the science center to rip out every hair on your arms and legs one by one), all because you hugged your girlfriend in 4th grade

*huggles and more huggles*

Those are kids that have been taught to hate. Hate is a learned emotion, not a natural one.