[Wondergirl]

First, what do you use to determine what those fruits should look like?

The Bible.

[Tj3]

The Bible.

Then why do you think that one can have the fruit of God by rejecting the Bible?

[Wondergirl]

Then how why do you think that one can have the fruit of God by rejecting the Bible?

Isaiah 55:8-9 "For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, declares the Lord. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts."

[Tj3]

Isaiah 55:8-9 "For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, declares the Lord. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts."

So God has given us His word which are from His thoughts. Are you saying that He lied to us in the Bible and He did not mean what He said?

Also note that the context of this passage is speaking of His thoughts being above those who reject Him:

Isa 55:6-7
6 Seek the LORD while He may be found,
Call upon Him while He is near.
7 Let the wicked forsake his way,
And the unrighteous man his thoughts;
Let him return to the LORD,
And He will have mercy on him;
And to our God,
For He will abundantly pardon.
NKJV

[Wondergirl]

those who reject Him

We aren't speaking about anyone who has rejected him. 1 Kings 19:12 "And after the earthquake a fire; but the LORD was not in the fire: and after the fire a still small voice."

[Tj3]

We aren't speaking about anyone who has rejected him.

That is what we are trying to determine. You pointed to the Bible as the standard, and I am using that standard to see if in fact the fruit matches to what the Bible says that we should expect of someone who is following the same God of the Bible that Christians follow.

1 Kings 19:12 "And after the earthquake a fire; but the LORD was not in the fire: and after the fire a still small voice."

So explain to me how this has anything to do with the topic when read in context.

1 Kings 19:9-18
9 And there he went into a cave, and spent the night in that place; and behold, the word of the LORD came to him, and He said to him, "What are you doing here, Elijah?" 10 So he said, "I have been very zealous for the LORD God of hosts; for the children of Israel have forsaken Your covenant, torn down Your altars, and killed Your prophets with the sword. I alone am left; and they seek to take my life."

11 Then He said, "Go out, and stand on the mountain before the LORD." And behold, the LORD passed by, and a great and strong wind tore into the mountains and broke the rocks in pieces before the LORD, but the LORD was not in the wind; and after the wind an earthquake, but the LORD was not in the earthquake; 12 and after the earthquake a fire, but the LORD was not in the fire; and after the fire a still small voice. 13 So it was, when Elijah heard it, that he wrapped his face in his mantle and went out and stood in the entrance of the cave. Suddenly a voice came to him, and said, "What are you doing here, Elijah?" 14 And he said, "I have been very zealous for the LORD God of hosts; because the children of Israel have forsaken Your covenant, torn down Your altars, and killed Your prophets with the sword. I alone am left; and they seek to take my life." 15 Then the LORD said to him: "Go, return on your way to the Wilderness of Damascus; and when you arrive, anoint Hazael as king over Syria. 16 Also you shall anoint Jehu the son of Nimshi as king over Israel. And Elisha the son of Shaphat of Abel Meholah you shall anoint as prophet in your place. 17 It shall be that whoever escapes the sword of Hazael, Jehu will kill; and whoever escapes from the sword of Jehu, Elisha will kill. 18 Yet I have reserved seven thousand in Israel, all whose knees have not bowed to Baal, and every mouth that has not kissed him."
NKJV

Also, why are you not dealing with the passages that I have brought forward. God's word does not and cannot contradict itself.



Prov 30:5-9
5 Every word of God is pure;
He is a shield to those who put their trust in Him.
6 Do not add to His words,
Lest He rebuke you, and you be found a liar.

7 Two things I request of You
(Deprive me not before I die):
8 Remove falsehood and lies far from me;
Give me neither poverty nor riches--
Feed me with the food allotted to me;
9 Lest I be full and deny You,
And say, "Who is the LORD?"
NKJV

[Wondergirl]

That is what we are trying to determine.

We are?

You pointed to the Bible as the standard, and I am using that standard to see if in fact the fruit matches to what the Bible says that we should expect of someone who is following the same God of the Bible that Christians follow.

The fruit matches, and the God is the same.

[Tj3]

We are?

You forgot?

Check posts 98 and 99, which were in response to the question regarding whether Alty was following the same God as Christians even though she rejects Christianity and the Bible

The fruit matches, and the God is the same.

You are going around in circles.

Note that scripture says. The fruit does not match the test of scripture, which is what you said is the standard, therefore how could it possibly be the same God?

What is it that they know about Jesus? What do they know about the gospel? Here is what scripture says if Jesus is separate from what the Bible says:

2 John 7-11
7 For many deceivers have gone out into the world who do not confess Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist. 8 Look to yourselves, that we do not lose those things we worked for, but that we may receive a full reward. 9 Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son. 10 If anyone comes to you and does not bring this doctrine, do not receive him into your house nor greet him; 11 for he who greets him shares in his evil deeds.
NKJV

The doctrine is the gospel given in scripture. Further, just because one uses the name of Jesus, a Jesus who does not come with the gospel is a concern. Again, what does scripture say:

2 Cor 11:1-4
11:1 Oh, that you would bear with me in a little folly--and indeed you do bear with me. 2 For I am jealous for you with godly jealousy. For I have betrothed you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ. 3 But I fear, lest somehow, as the serpent deceived Eve by his craftiness, so your minds may be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. 4 For if he who comes preaches another Jesus whom we have not preached, or if you receive a different spirit which you have not received, or a different gospel which you have not accepted--you may well put up with it!
NKJV

Gal 1:6-10
6 I marvel that you are turning away so soon from Him who called you in the grace of Christ, to a different gospel, 7 which is not another; but there are some who trouble you and want to pervert the gospel of Christ. 8 But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed. 9 As we have said before, so now I say again, if anyone preaches any other gospel to you than what you have received, let him be accursed. 10 For do I now persuade men, or God? Or do I seek to please men? For if I still pleased men, I would not be a bondservant of Christ.
NKJV

So scripture is clear that a Jesus who comes with a different gospel is not the same Jesus, and scripture is clear that this is not the same Jesus, not the same God.

We cannot separate God from His word.

[Wondergirl]

We cannot separate God from His word.

Please take God out of that tiny box you have him squished in.

[Tj3]

Please take God out of that tiny box you have him squished in.

You mean the Bible that He gave us through which to reveal Himself?

Scripture says:

Prov 30:5-6
5 Every word of God is pure;
He is a shield to those who put their trust in Him.
6 Do not add to His words,
Lest He rebuke you, and you be found a liar.
NKJV

By what authority do you tell me to go beyond what He Himself has said?

[Wondergirl]

By what authority do you tell me to go beyond what He Himself has said?

In Matt. 7:1-5 Jesus said, "Judge not, that you be not judged. For with the judgment that you pronounce you will be judged, and the measure you give will be the measure you get. Why do you see the speck that is in your brother's eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? Or how can you say to your brother, "Let me take the speck out of your eye," when there is the log in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother's eye."

[Tj3]

In Matt. 7:1-5 Jesus said, "Judge not, that you be not judged. For with the judgment that you pronounce you will be judged, and the measure you give will be the measure you get. Why do you see the speck that is in your brother's eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? Or how can you say to your brother, "Let me take the speck out of your eye," when there is the log in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother's eye."

That raises an excellent question. Why did you judge me like this:

"Please take God out of that tiny box you have him squished in."

Scripture says:

Prov 30:5-6
5 Every word of God is pure;
He is a shield to those who put their trust in Him.
6 Do not add to His words,
Lest He rebuke you, and you be found a liar.
NKJV

By what authority do you tell me to go beyond what He Himself has said?

[Wondergirl]

That raises an excellent question. Why did you judge me like this:

"Please take God out of that tiny box you have him squished in."

The judgment would have been: You are an evil person to put God into such a tiny box.
The plea for mercy is: Please take God out of that tiny box you have him squished in.

[Tj3]

The judgment would have been: You are an evil person to put God into such a tiny box.
The plea for mercy is: Please take God out of that tiny box you have him squished in.

Either way it is a judgment by claiming that I have put God into a box, and so far you have failed to answer these questions:

Do you mean the Bible that He gave us through which to reveal Himself?

Scripture says:

Prov 30:5-6
5 Every word of God is pure;
He is a shield to those who put their trust in Him.
6 Do not add to His words,
Lest He rebuke you, and you be found a liar.
NKJV

By what authority do you tell me to go beyond what He Himself has said?

[Wondergirl]

Either way it is a judgment by claiming that I have put God into a box

No, it is not, as I explained with lovely examples.

[Tj3]

No, it is not, as I explained with lovely examples.

So I am glad that you think that your opinions and writing style are so great. But regardless of how wonderful you think that you and your skills may be, that is not the determination of sound doctrine - God's word is.

By pointing to your own opinions, you have effectively made yourself your standard of truth.

Deut 12:8
8 You shall not at all do as we are doing here today--every man doing whatever is right in his own eyes-
NKJV

[Wondergirl]

So I am glad that you think that your opinions and writing style are so great. But regardless of how wonderful you think that you and your skills may be, that is not the determination of sound doctrine - God's word is.

By pointing to your own opinions, you have effectively made yourself your standard of truth.

Deut 12:8
8 You shall not at all do as we are doing here today--every man doing whatever is right in his own eyes-
NKJV

Insults won't work. Bye.

[Tj3]

Insults won't work. Bye.

So when I challenge your opinions with scripture, you consider that an insult? But it is okay for you to falsely accuse and belittle others?

Let's look back at that verse that you quoted before:

Matt 7:1-5
7:1 "Judge not, that you be not judged. 2 For with what judgment you judge, you will be judged; and with the measure you use, it will be measured back to you. 3 And why do you look at the speck in your brother's eye, but do not consider the plank in your own eye? 4 Or how can you say to your brother, 'Let me remove the speck from your eye'; and look, a plank is in your own eye? 5 Hypocrite! First remove the plank from your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck out of your brother's eye.
NKJV

BTW, why do people always use the "God in a box" argument when they cannot deal with what God's word says? Maybe they do not like the box that God has chosen and revealed for Himself, and which He expects for us also. People want to behave as they want without limits, so they often try to suggest that God places no limits on us, but he does.

He has placed Himself in the box of Holiness and Righteousness. He has placed Himself in the box of truth. He has placed Himself in the box of sound teaching and sound doctrine. He expects us to follow these limitations and includes the box of not following false doctrine, false gospel, and other gods.

In Deuteronomy, we find men who chose to live life without God imposed limits:

Deut 12:8
8 You shall not at all do as we are doing here today--every man doing whatever is right in his own eyes-
NKJV

[Alty]

Please take God out of that tiny box you have him squished in.

I agree Wondergirl. I agree.

Tom, you are so hung up by the bible that you can't see the forest for the trees.

It is possible to worship the same God without following the bible.

No, the bible does not enter into my faith, but I still believe in God, the same God as you. Just because I don't need a book to tell me how to live my life, doesn't mean that I don't know God.

Every time someone tries to talk to you, you pull up a bible scripture.

Tom, it is just a book, it's not the be all end all of everything.

Maybe if you spent more time praying, talking to God, less time reading and quoting scripture, then you'd be able to understand that you and I, we pray to the same God, just in different ways.

Also, an important thing to remember, we're both human, only God can truly know what's in our hearts. So, for you to say that I am wrong and you are right, well, you don't have the power to determine that, only God does.

[Tj3]

Tom, you are so hung up by the bible that you can't see the forest for the trees.

It is possible to worship the same God without following the bible.

Really? By what standard do you determine that to be the case? God told us not to go beyond His word and not to go beyond what is written. What standard do you follow that says otherwise?

No, the bible does not enter into my faith, but I still believe in God, the same God as you. Just because I don't need a book to tell me how to live my life, doesn't mean that I don't know God.

How can it be the same God when your God says that you do not need His word, and my God says that you do?

Every time someone tries to talk to you, you pull up a bible scripture.

That is the standard of truth in doctrine that God gave us. What standard do you use?

Tom, it is just a book, it's not the be all end all of everything.

Maybe if you spent more time praying, talking to God, less time reading and quoting scripture, then you'd be able to understand that you and I, we pray to the same God, just in different ways.

You do not even know me. By what means do you claim the authority to judge me and to judge my spiritual life and my walk with God?

It is kind of ironic that you should do so when we look at the subject line:

"Why can't people of different faiths accept one another?"

You seem to feel that it is okay to judge others who disagree with you. By what authority do you claim this right? Or do you think that it is okay for you to judge others but that we cannot disagree with you, and cannot believe what the Bible says because you don't agree with it? There is a word for that attitude. Why can we not simply disagree and discuss respectfully?

Then you said:

So, for you to say that I am wrong and you are right, well, you don't have the power to determine that, only God does.

Consider how that applies to your comments and judgments about me.