[talaniman]

To work there must be the jobs that support those 60 hours a week and let's face it the reality is Greece doesn't have those kinds of job opportunities. Never have the way other countries did or were helped to structure that way. Germany benefited immensely from the Marshall Plan so you think they would pass that to countries that could use them like Greece rather than act like greedy exploitive mobsters.

[Vacuum7]

jlisenbe & Talaniman: May sound like I'm crying over spilled milk but I don't think many of these European nations PAID back their Marshall Plan debts and Greece had one heck of a time recovering after WWII because they had a communist insurgency for about five years post War that set them back when others were nations economies were growing and beginning to thrive. I agree that its bad business to go into debt and the U.S. is not a good example in this category AND Obama and Trump are almost brothers of different mothers in this arena in driving debt sky high.

However, Germany looms large in a lot of these European economy dramas....I think German fingerprints are all about Europe, cloaked in the E.U., and they truly are the shadowy puppet masters of Europe....what is a not known right now is the Merkel replacement and what path that German will take. In E.U. gatherings, those nations that don't fall-in lock-step with the E.U. plans are attacked with great gusto and vigor (remember Nigel Farage and Matteo Salvini were pounced upon by E.U. leaders).

[paraclete]

Yes Germany certainly won the peace, no doubt due to soviet aggression

[talaniman]

jlisenbe & Talaniman: May sound like I'm crying over spilled milk but I don't think many of these European nations PAID back their Marshall Plan debts and Greece had one heck of a time recovering after WWII because they had a communist insurgency for about five years post War that set them back when others were nations economies were growing and beginning to thrive. I agree that its bad business to go into debt and the U.S. is not a good example in this category AND Obama and Trump are almost brothers of different mothers in this arena in driving debt sky high.

However, Germany looms large in a lot of these European economy dramas....I think German fingerprints are all about Europe, cloaked in the E.U., and they truly are the shadowy puppet masters of Europe....what is a not known right now is the Merkel replacement and what path that German will take. In E.U. gatherings, those nations that don't fall-in lock-step with the E.U. plans are attacked with great gusto and vigor (remember Nigel Farage and Matteo Salvini were pounced upon by E.U. leaders).

As well they should be, but can such extreme right wing loonism take over Germany? Seems to be the trend in the EU countries, and many other places even here. Fear driven and hate based neo nationalism of which the dufus and Vlad are the poster boys for, is certainly something even conservatives oppose as extremism.

[Vacuum7]

Talaniman: Right Wing Loonism is a REACTION to left wing loonism….almost always has been through history......Hitler would have never gotten traction in Germany if the ALLIES hadn't decided to rape Germany as part of the "Peace Agreement" (a Peace Agreement that fostered hatred) and the communist hadn't been trying to exploit the situation.....Salvini wouldn't have gotten popular in Italy if the left hadn't been trying to do and end-around run on the will of the people. Germany is primed to turn Right and, potentially, hard Right because of Merkel's cutesy moves with flooding the country with M.E. and African refugees will have an effect on helping propel the native German population to look for "alternatives" to their traditional left-leaning views.

Talaniman: One thing is for sure: The left doesn't have all the CRAZIES....the Right has plenty of them, too.....and the rest of us are in the middle but what we cannot be is "timid" or the extremes on either side of us will run rough-shod over us!

[talaniman]

I tend not to vote for extremist right or left, but you are very correct that the middle or moderates have to watch them loonies all the time because they never quit, or go away, and you just can't out holler them!

No coincidence that issues on sovereignty and immigration are what they rally around. Them people is but a cover for racism, and an excuse to blame others for their misery.

[paraclete]

No coincidence that issues on sovereignty and immigration are what they rally around. Them people is but a cover for racism, and an excuse to blame others for their misery.

so sovereignty and immigration are about racism, not nationalism, not start your charity at home and look after your own. Twisted leftist views Tal

[jlisenbe]

No coincidence that issues on sovereignty and immigration are what they rally around. Them people is but a cover for racism, and an excuse to blame others for their misery.

So we can't be a sovereign nation, and we can't control immigration? I guess that means you let anyone and everyone into your house at night, or at least it does if you practice what you preach.

That always amazes me about liberals. They have such a wonderful moral standard that they want other people to live by.

[paraclete]

That always amazes me about liberals. They have such a wonderful moral standard

Hmmmm! moral standard? is that what you call it? free range abortion on demand? drugs for all? helping the poor of other nations before helping your own?

[talaniman]

So we can't be a sovereign nation, and we can't control immigration? I guess that means you let anyone and everyone into your house at night, or at least it does if you practice what you preach.

That always amazes me about liberals. They have such a wonderful moral standard that they want other people to live by.

Now that would be funny if not down right tragic if the way you exercise and control your borders is by being cruel to scared men, women, and children running from the lawless dangers in their own countries. I'm not surprised you cannot find a moral way to go about it and prefer to accuse liberals of being against sovereignty and border control. Humane process is beyond you righties or something?

[jlisenbe]

Hmmmm! moral standard? is that what you call it? free range abortion on demand? drugs for all? helping the poor of other nations before helping your own?

That wasn't my point at all.

Now that would be funny if not down right tragic if the way you exercise and control your borders is by being cruel to scared men, women, and children running from the lawless dangers in their own countries. I'm not surprised you cannot find a moral way to go about it and prefer to accuse liberals of being against sovereignty and border control. Humane process is beyond you righties or something?

If you are so kind yourself, are you opening the door of your own house to those people, or do you just expect others to shoulder the burden? We cannot hold everyone who has a problem in their own country, just like you don't ask 8 of your local homeless crowd to come live in your house. You don't do that, do you? Do You?

[talaniman]

Just because I don't house the homeless, or immigrant, or those people and don't ask you to do it either, we do as a collective try to help a fellow human don't we? They takes as much from me as you in that regard so what the heck are you talking about expect others to do it? Jesus tells you to do it and you cry and whine and refuse? You really think telling me to follow Jesus and you don't works for me?

[jlisenbe]

You claim to be super-moral because you want the feds to basically allow anyone and everyone to come into our country and expect to be housed and fed when they get here, but you don't engage in any of that yourself? Hmmm.

[talaniman]

I claim no such thing. We are both a part of the collective effort, but you cry about it. Now dry your eyes and do what Jesus tell you to do and I'm sure you know that scripture by heart.

[paraclete]

I claim no such thing. We are both a part of the collective effort, but you cry about it. Now dry your eyes and do what Jesus tell you to do and I'm sure you know that scripture by heart.

Last time I looked Jesus said go into the world, not invite the world to your doorstep so please don't attempt to quote scripture and induce a guilt trip. You liberals are too good at that. Don't tell us what to do, go and do it yourself. When Jesus said feed my lambs, feed my sheep he was speaking about preaching the Gospel, not putting food on the table

[talaniman]

I hate it to have to preach the gospel to true believers, BUT...

Leviticus 25:35-38 ³⁵"'If any of your fellow Israelites become poor and are unable to support themselves among you, help them as you would a foreigner and stranger, so they can continue to live among you. ³⁶Do not take interest or any profit from them, but fear your God, so that they may continue to live among you. ³⁷You must not lend them money at interest or sell them food at a profit. ³⁸I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of Egypt to give you the land of Canaan and to be your God.Matthew 25:35 ³⁵For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in,Hebrews 13:1-2 ¹Keep on loving one another as brothers and sisters. ²Do not forget to show hospitality to strangers, for by so doing some people have shown hospitality to angels without knowing it.Leviticus 19:33-34 ³³"'When a foreigner resides among you in your land, do not mistreat them. ³⁴The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

[jlisenbe]

OK. First of all, of the four passages you quoted, Jesus only spoke one of them. The Bible does command us to be hospitable and ready to help those who need shelter, but you should note that there is no command for one person to force another to give money (taxes) to a program that is largely politically motivated. In fact, the verses you quoted lend credence to the idea that YOU are supposed to be helping the poor and homeless, and not forcing others to do so by political means.

[paraclete]

I hate it to have to preach the gospel to true believers, BUT...

Leviticus 25:35-38 ³⁵"'If any of your fellow Israelites become poor and are unable to support themselves among you, help them as you would a foreigner and stranger, so they can continue to live among you. ³⁶Do not take interest or any profit from them, but fear your God, so that they may continue to live among you. ³⁷You must not lend them money at interest or sell them food at a profit. ³⁸I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of Egypt to give you the land of Canaan and to be your God.Matthew 25:35 ³⁵For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in,Hebrews 13:1-2 ¹Keep on loving one another as brothers and sisters. ²Do not forget to show hospitality to strangers, for by so doing some people have shown hospitality to angels without knowing it.Leviticus 19:33-34 ³³"'When a foreigner resides among you in your land, do not mistreat them. ³⁴The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

1. I wonder if the jews in your country are following Leviticus. However, the Old Testament never contemplated being overrun with foreigners. Hospitality was not offered to the Midianites when they overran the land
2. Put these texts in context, in these societies there were no motels where a traveller might stay, maybe an Inn could offer accommodation to a few so hospitality was offered in private homes, by this means news was communicated.
3. I very much doubt the millions who have moved from south and central america, from the ME and Africa include many angels and these are not residents
4. as we said before, go you and do likewise

[jlisenbe]

4. as we said before, go you and do likewise

Well said. Those scriptures were to govern personal behavior, not government behavior. Liberals love to quote those texts, but only to try and score political points.

[talaniman]

Well I though the bible was the word of God. My bad for thinking that, and not seeing it's just scoring political points for a government to make policies and laws that reflect that notion. You could have told me that the only parts of the bible is the ones that quote Jesus. Or are you trying to make excuses for your own religious and political hypocrisy?

I take your point that ancient man made stuff up according to what was happening during his time and as man evolves those words are irrelevant to modern man.