[talaniman]

So a gay celibate guy can be a minister, as FR Chuck has pointed out, and even acknowledges that it is in fact so. It seems that opinions are moot at this point, because the answer is yes.

[Tj3]

So a gay celibate guy can be a minister, as FR Chuck has pointed out, and even acknowledges that it is in fact so. It seems that opinions are moot at this point, because the answer is yes.

The question was not whether it is possible - certainly various churches permit it and can do so - but the question was whether a Christian should allow it. When we look at scripture, the answer is clearly "no". When we are speaking about Christian doctrine, then opinions must fall aside when scripture speaks.

[talaniman]

I really don't care, as I choose not to be affiliated with any denomination. Some allow it some don't. I will leave it for you Christians to figure out. Interpretation is only the opinion of the interpreter.

[Tj3]

I really don't care, as I choose not to be affiliated with any denomination. Some allow it some don't. I will leave it for you Christians to figure out. Interpretation is only the opinion of the interpreter.

I am not affiliated with a denomination either. Scripture tells us that the Bible is of no private interpretation (2 Peter 1:20), so we are to allow it to speak for itself and interpret itself.

[NeedKarma]

There is ample evidence and the difference between you and Christians is that we KNOW and you DONT know..;)

This is an example of the divisiveness that drives people away from religion. The superiority attitude is a big turn off.

[NeedKarma]

Yes it is true, poeple are turned off by absolute Truth.

Sorry honey, there is no such thing as 'absolute truth'. You take what you believe and call it "the truth". Every religion/denomination does the same.

[talaniman]

Originally Posted by waterlilly
Yes it is true, poeple are turned off by absolute Truth.

Everyone has the absolute truth, that makes you one of many.

[margarita_momma]

Yes it is true, poeple are turned off by absolute Truth. It is too black and white for some poeple. They are more confortable with grey areas because it gives them the leverage to avoid truth and make up their own rules as they go.

Its funny how a lot of overly religious people, like yourself, think the only reason non-believers don't believe is because we don't want to follow the rules and want to avoid the truth. A lot of us don't believe because honestly religion just sounds like a lot of made up opinions by other people. Its people like yourself that have that snotty Hollier than though mentality that turned me away from religion in the first place.

Oh and NeedKarma... I agree with your last post. I have just agreed with you so much the site won't let me do it anymore. Ha ha!

[talaniman]

but having a personal relationship with the Living God.

I agree on that, but though The God that I understand guides me, I don't know the whole story, and don't care who is right or wrong. There can be no absolute truth with us humans, only what we choose to believe. God put us here but the means is beyond us. The overwhelming evidence, is we don't really know. As humans we fill in the blanks with our own truth, but we learn as we grow, if we grow and are openminded, and can accept what is true.

[Tj3]

This is an example of the divisiveness that drives people away from religion. The superiority attitude is a big turn off.

NK,

Christians do not see themselves as superior. We are all sinners, and we know that unless we humbled ourselves and acknowledged our sin before God that we would be on our way to hell. It is only through acknowledging that we cannot save ourselves and it is our own sin that has condemned us that we can saved by grace through the sacrifice that Jesus made on the cross to pay the price for our sins.

Tom

[NeedKarma]

Christians do not see themselves as superior.

Hi Tom,

I see what you are saying and that is my experience with my local christian friends as well. But hang around this website long enough and you'll see what I am talking about.

[Tertullian]

Yes it is true, poeple are turned off by absolute Truth. It is too black and white for some poeple. They are more confortable with grey areas because it gives them the leverage to avoid truth and make up their own rules as they go.

There is no Black and White in religion that can be taken as Absolute Truth!! Absolute Truth for a Roman Catholic is Papal infallibility... for a Jehovah's Witness it is the idea of a renewed earth for the faithful... for monophysites it is the Single Nature of Christ. When a religionist claims Absolute Truth he/she is merely saying "the absolute truth can only be found in MY belief system". That is patently false.

[Tertullian]

I am not affiliated with a denomination either. Scripture tells us that the Bible is of no private interpretation (2 Peter 1:20), so we are to allow it to speak for itself and interpret itself.

You have merely confirmed that you have INTERPRETED Scripture to your own satisfaction. Without interpretation the conflicting reports in the bible have to be taken literally and that turns the bible into a field strewn with land mines for those seeking guidance, e.g. The Gospels tell us that Jesus Baptized. (John 3:22).. and the same Gospel has already told us that Jesus did NOT Baptize (John 4:2). If we let the bible speak for itself... what do these verses tell us? Does the inpiration of God allow for this kind of mis-speaking??

[Tj3]

You have merely confirmed that you have INTERPRETED Scripture to your own satisfaction.

Really? If it was on topic, I would ask you how you came to that conclusion, but since it is not, I'd rather see this thread stay on topic. It is however interesting how people so often try to distract from the topic to focus on the person.

Without interpretation the conflicting reports in the bible have to be taken literally and that turns the bible into a field strewn with land mines for those seeking guidance, e.g. The Gospels tell us that Jesus Baptized. (John 3:22).. and the same Gospel has already told us that Jesus did NOT Baptize (John 4:2). If we let the bible speak for itself... what do these verses tell us? Does the inpiration of God allow for this kind of mis-speaking??

I have seen the lists of so-called contradictions on internet and have spent far too many hours just reading people the context - usually one verse before and after makes it abundantly clear that there is no contradiction. I find that rarely do those copying and pasting these comments actually read the context themselves, I have chosen not to waste my time dealing with these claims.

But again, your comments are off topic.

[Soldout]

Hi Tom,

I see what you are saying and that is my experience with my local christian friends as well. But hang around this website long enough and you'll see what I am talking about.

You have obviously been on this web site long enough.. maybe too long... lol Do you have a life (you know job, wife, kids) besides harassing christians on this website? Just currious because it seems like you are on the Christian forums 24 7 I can't imagine how you have time for anything else. For someone who is a professed atheist you sure do invest a lot of time in religion. Funny :D

[Tertullian]

Really? If it was on topic, I would ask you how you came to that conclusion, but since it is not, I'd rather see this thread stay on topic. It is however interesting how people so often try to distract from the topic to focus on the person.



I have seen the lists of so-called contradictions on internet and have spent far too many hours just reading people the context - usually one verse before and after makes it abundantly clear that there is no contradiction. I find that rarely do those copying and pasting these comments actually read the context themselves, I have chosen not to waste my time dealing with these claims.

But again, your comments are off topic.

How can you claim that MY comments were "off topic" when YOU were the one who introduced the new thread of biblical interpretation??
And though you claim that verses "rarely" contradict each other... you do nothing to explain how two contradictory verses can appear in the same chapter?? Either Jesus Baptized or he did NOT Baptize. One claim is wrong. If it was a simple 'mis-speak' that puts the idea of divine inspiration in jeopardy. I should think you would want to address THAT.

[Tj3]

How can you claim that MY comments were "off topic" when YOU were the one who introduced the new thread of biblical interpretation??

No I did not. Check post #96.

And though you claim that verses "rarely" contradict each other

No I didn't. I said that rarely do those making these claims ever check the context first. I have yet to see a real contradiction.

... you do nothing to explain how two contradictory verses can appear in the same chapter??

No, because it is off-topic. If you wish to discuss what you believe to be contradictions, I believe that another thread would be appropriate.

[Tertullian]

No I did not. Check post #96.



No I didn't. I said that rarely do those making these claims ever check the context first. I have yet to see a real contradiction.



No, because it is off-topic. If you wish to discuss what you believe to be contradictions, I believe that another thread would be appropriate.

Not so: In post #95 you begin your "scripture" claim with "opinions must fall aside when Scripture speaks'. THAT is an opinion.

And you follow in post #99... '... the bible is of no private interpretation'. MY response came AFTER you went off topic.

[Soldout]

tertullian: Are you attacking the messenger because you do not like the message?? You seem to make a habit of sniping at all those who do not agree with you. Why is that??

No, actually I was just making an observation that I found funny that's all.

[Tj3]

Not so: In post #95 you begin your "scripture" claim with "opinions must fall aside when Scripture speaks'. THAT is an opinion.

But not discussing interpretation.

Now get back on topic.