[paraclete]

I'm amazed how this reconciliation process doesn't work

[tomder55]

Not hard to understand when you know the specifics . First ;theoretically violence against anyone is a crime. But OK they made special provisions for crimes against women in 1994 by a bi-partisan Congress ;and Clintoon signing.
So what happens this time when it comes up for reauthorization ? Well the House passes the bill like it was . But the Dem Senate suddenly decides that the violence against women law should now extend to lesbians ,gays ,transgenders ,transformers ,and illegal aliens .

When 2 different versions of the same bill gets passed by both Houses of Congress then there needs to be a conference committee to iron out the differences . There is where the bill stalled . So who's at fault . The House that passed the bill as it had always been ;or the Senate that unilaterally changed the bill ?

[paraclete]

What I mean is this Tom we have a mechanism for resolving empasses, it's called a double dissolution. When one party blocks legislation the government can use it as an excuse to dissolve both houses and force an election. Even relatively minor matters can provide this excuse. The threat means that there has to be negotiation in good faith in most matters and only a few thorny issues remain which will only force a dissolution if the government thinks it can win the election. No solution and the bills ultimately lapse.

The question isn't who is at fault, the two houses exist so that there is even handedness in legislation, it is part of the democratic process that legislation gets reviewed and modified. I know that sometimes undesirable changes are made for political purposes particularly when you have the situation you do where the party controlling the House is essentually the opposition to the governing party typified by the President. It is all part of the cut and thrust of politics

[talaniman]

Lets see 1994, now we are in 2012, its time to modernize because we have more diverse people to protect. I can go with the process, and see what happens but adding gays and trans genders is no big deal, is it? How does that slow the process down?

[tomder55]

Why do you need separate legislation when violence against anyone is a crime... no ? It is essentially the same problem I have with so called 'hate' crime. Violence against anyone is illegal.

[talaniman]

House Passes Violence Against Women Act That Leaves Out LGBT, Immigrant Protections

They passed a watered down version that excludes gay and immigrants. Just like everyone thought they would.

During the House debate, Democrats charged that the GOP bill would actually leave victims of domestic violence worse off than they are under current law. Unlike the Senate bill, the House proposal discourages undocumented immigrant women from reporting abuse without the threat of being deported. It also makes it harder for Native American women to seek justice against their abusers, and it leaves out protections for the LGBT community altogether.

Republicans "rarely miss an opportunity to exclude LGBT Americans from important rights and benefits," Rep. Lynn Woolsey (D-Calif.) said. "They're saying if you're a woman in a relationship with another woman, then you don't deserve the same protections from domestic abuse or sexual assault."

[tomder55]

Hello WG:

Shhhhh, you'll remind them that they've BEEN at war with women for a LONG, LONG time.

You saw what tom said about the Lilly Ledbetter law.. He called her Lilly Bedwetter... I suppose it's because she wanted to be paid the same as guys are, and had the TEMERITY to SPEAK up. Clearly, she does NOT know her place.

But, there's no war. Look over there at the commie Marxist...

excon

Given that Obama pays his women staffers 18% less than his male staffers; I'm surprised none have brought him up on Bedwetter charges. This was also true of his campaign staff. Female employees were earning an average of $6,872,compared with an average of $7,235 for male employees. That is a difference of 5.3 percent or $2,100 per year.

Now we know that Valerie Jarrett is a top advisor to the President ;but a recent photo of him from a White House Flickr account shows him surrounded by his "top advisors" ,an all male cast .Where is Jarrett ?
P122912PS-0422 | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

Seems like his only female advisor of note recently was Sandra Fluke.

[Wondergirl]

shows him surrounded by his "top advisors" ,an all male cast .Where is Jarrett ?

The women had gone off to the ladies room.

[talaniman]

One picture is hardly evidence of anything and I would need job description to verify he indeed is paying woman less for the same job, so lets not assume unless you have those facts and for sure NO lawsuits have been filed or complants from the females involved.

None of that has anything to do with what the right has done and the laws they have written and passed or the election results we have just witnessed.

[tomder55]

The information was obtained through the White House own web page . You can do the calculations yourself or trust that the information ;available at many cites ,is accurate .
Female employees earned a median annual salary of $60,000... Male employees $71,000.

2011 Annual Report to Congress on White House Staff | The White House

One picture is hardly evidence of anything

Look at the caption again... "In the Oval Office, the President meets with senior advisors to discuss the ongoing fiscal cliff negotiations."
Where are the female "senior advisors " ?

[paraclete]

Lets see 1994, its time to modernize

Tal aren't you a couple of centuries out there?

[tomder55]

It's silliness . You could write up hundreds of pieces of legislation identifying which special group deserves protection against violence. Or you can have one law that says violence against anyone is illegal.

[paraclete]

Yes Tom violence is illegal and the instruments of violence should be illegal too

[tomder55]

yes Tom violence is illegal and the instruments of violence should be illegal too

Most violence... especially domestic violence, is done with blunt instruments knives and bare hands . Good luck making them illegal.

[talaniman]

White House salaries, 2011 - Spreadsheets - Los Angeles Times

What do republicans have against lgbt, and immigrants?

[tomder55]

Nothing ;why do you think they deserve special treatment under the law ? Isn't that against the 14th amendment ? Doesn't laws against violence already cover equal treatment under the law ?

[talaniman]

That's the point, they have not gotten the equal protection under the law they seek. That's why they holler. Because you don't listen to their needs, and don't know what they are, then how can you dismiss it so easily?

What's the skin off your nose to include them? Don't tell me they don't need it because you don't know that.

[cdad]

Thats the point, they have not gotten the equal protection under the law they seek. Thats why they holler. Because you don't listen to their needs, and don't know what they are, then how can you dismiss it so easily?

Whats the skin off your nose to include them? Don't tell me they don't need it because you don't know that.

Can you show me where is says in any law that violence is a crime except against these people...


Honestly I can't seem to find it anywhere Or is this the tired old argument that everyone should be a special class except those deemed by a political party? What part of illegal is beyond your understanding?
.

[talaniman]

One of the obstacles for lgbt, immigrants, and native Americans is in the low priority there cases are prosecuted and like rape victims the difficulty in even bringing a case against the perpetrators because of jurisdictional conflict in local courts and low evidence because of resources.

That's why even domestic violence cases have been difficult to bring forth and usually after repeated incidence of a clear paper trail do these actually even get to a court, so there are groups that have no avenues to get away from the perpetraor, orthe resources toeve be treated for their being a victim,especially in te Indian naion who have been hollering for years at not having jurisdiction to even serve a warrant to perpertrators outside their own land.

Illegals have the added obstacle of fear and intimidation because they have no recourse in courts as they have no standing just being illegal. They are victimized with no fear of retaliations ever. Often by the ones who employ them in the first place.

Including them in the new bill would raise them as a priority of the court and allow prosecutors and the victims the resources to actually get these cases through the courts and eliminate the ease they are exploited and victimized. It also resources the processing of evidence like rape kits and adds them to a national data base and sadly even domestic cases by citizens already is way behind in getting DNA and other evidence that can only be done in a lab.

Making domestic violence a higher priority should be a national focus and all should be included. So its not about special laws for special groups, its about raising the level of awareness and resources for groups that have had the least access and resources to get the equal protection under the law that's guaranteed us.

You know as well as I do where no money is earmarked specifically, there will be NO action. That's what the original VAWA was supposed to address, and expanssion is needed at this time to prevent some who are falling through the cracks by the millions. Heck it's the same money but stretched farther.

Advocates stunned Violence Against Women Act allowed to expire | News - Home

Maybe this will shed some light of what local advocates around the country actually are faced with.

[speechlesstx]

All I know is all this effort by the left to bring us together by separating everyone by special interest group is counterproductive.