[smoothy]

Well... the country wasn't built by the poor, the Lazy and the welfare recipients... they think they are OWED something...

Few of them are interested in EARNING it. They think it should be handed to them on a silver platter. At least today that's true... it did't used to be... it stopped when everything started going to hell.

[paraclete]

As I recall the country was build by people fleeing oppression. Fact is they took what they wanted but also benefited from the kindness of the locals. I wonder what the native americans thought of these people who needed a hand out and how different would the outcome have been if they hadn't received it.

A little later they exploited labour bought in chains and sold in markets and many of those welfare recipients are descendants of those slaves whose labour provided wealth

A nation that forgets it roots is a poor nation indeed.

[smoothy]

As I recall the country was build by people fleeing oppression. Fact is they took what they wanted but also benefited from the kindness of the locals. I wonder what the native americans thought of these people who needed a hand out and how different would the outcome have been if they hadn't received it.

A little later they exploited labour bought in chains and sold in markets and many of those welfare recipients are decendents of those slaves whose labour provided wealth

A nation that forgets it roots is a poor nation indeed.

Yeah.. right... the poor are exploited... what a crock... if they ain't happy... why don't they start their own businesses instead of working for someone else and whining about it?

The poor USED to work hard to get ahead.. the poor didn't used to want much less expect handouts. All they wanted was a chance... which they still have and always have had..

[talaniman]

A poor guy getting financing for a business? Not at Walmart wages. But you already know that.

Nice Squeal though.

[paraclete]

Yeah..right...the poor are exploited....what a crock....if they ain't happy...why don't they start their own businesses instead of working for someone else and whining about it?

The poor USED to work hard to get ahead..the poor didn't used to want much less expect handouts. All they wanted was a chance...which they still have and always have had..

Smoothy you know the let them eat cake approach got Marie Antonette the axe and that is what you just said start a business, with what? Thin air or the hot air you are talking.

Those chances you speak of are thin on the ground

[tomder55]

The idea that if the Lord didn't want them to be shorn he wouldn't have made them sheep which is at the root of the capitalist model is a wrong idea. I know socialism has to be tempered also but a sharing society can prosper, the society in which I live has demonstrated the model.

Luke 10:7... Jesus delivered an entire parable praising the profitable, investment strategy of some workers while condemning the single man who didn't make a profit as “wicked and lazy.”
Jesus didn't see the government as the answer . In fact, he fought against his own disciples who were imagining a revolution that would end in Jesus being set up as an earthly king. Finally Jesus encouraged his followers to exclusively practice voluntary, personal charity. The apostles condemned people who expected to eat without working, and proclaiming that Christians should give willingly, not out of coercion.
Jesus did say that government had an important limited role .(render unto Caesar);but as previously stated ,his was a doctrine of personal salvation ;not societal . There is where Christianity differs from utopian models. Christians who think we are commanded to make government 'God on Earth' are misguided.

[smoothy]

A poor guy getting financing for a business?? Not at Walmart wages. But you already know that.

Nice Squeal though.

Right... EVERY business that's ever been started by a poor person wasn't financed by a bank or some rich guy... if you think they were you are really out of touch...

Every hear of the concept... start small then grow?

[NeedKarma]

Luke 10:7

Cherry picking verses you like while discarding the ones you don't like.

[tomder55]

OK then show me the verses where Jesus tells us the government should take on the responsibilities you suggest it should.

[Tuttyd]

ok then show me the verses where Jesus tells us the government should take on the responsibilities you suggest it should.

The government only had responsibility to Roman citizens. Only at a later times did was it forced to consider the extent of Roman provincial law. It was largely a peasant society. No capitalists to speak of.

[smoothy]

Smoothy you know the let em eat cake approach got Marie Antonette the axe and that is what you just said start a business, with what? thin air or the hot air you are talking.

Those chances you speak of are thin on the ground

THey are not slim... most small businesses don't rely of massive loans to get going... and in fact having to pay back large sums of money will doom many businesses...

And expecting much less being able to borrow money to start a business is a fairly recent thing... yet there were huge ammounts of small businesses around before then.

[talaniman]

Pray tell us how small business get started and where a poor guy gets start up capital?

[paraclete]

Look I see the strawberry sellers and the sweets peddlars all the time but few of them will rise, you have to have some capital to start a business even if it is only to get some premises and do some signage. Many small businesses fail. I see the testament of that in the empty malls. You want a Mcdonalds franchise? Do you have a million dollars?

[smoothy]

Pray tell us how small business get started and where a poor guy gets start up capital?

Ask any of the millions that did it before the government decided to get involved in recent decades,.

In fact I know a number of business owners that never got a government loan to do it... and they weren't born into wealthy families... they earned it the old fashioned way... they worked for it.

Its amazing how the lefties are absolutely dependent on the government for everything... its amazing how the human race has lasted this long.

[talaniman]

Save the squealing rants and elaborate on the facts you claim to have first hand.

[tomder55]

I've used this example before.. . before government got involved ;a poor person could buy a used auto and put a taxi sign on it.. Bam ! He was in business. He drove people and maybe saved and purchased more cars and eventually had a fleet with hired drivers.
Today that same poor person has to save up or get investors to finance a $million dollar or more medallion for the right to set up a taxi business. So now if he's lucky ,he's an employee of a crony of the mayor... or even worse ;he's squeezed out of the job by some illegal immigrant that you guys favor .

[talaniman]

That's a nice overview of how you see NY. But here is what I find about NY medallions.

Why taxi medallions cost $1 million | Felix Salmon

But I do worry that the way fares are set, too much money ends up going to medallion owners. If fares were brought down, the amount that medallion owners could charge drivers would also come down, and medallion prices would — finally — start to fall. Why does NYC ever raise taxi fares, when the income from those fares ends up going overwhelmingly to a handful of millionaire medallion owners? These medallions, right now, are licenses to print money. That's why they're getting extremely expensive. But it doesn't need to be that way.

How Much Does it Cost to Become a Cab Driver in New York? | eHow

Most taxi drivers do not have the cash to purchase a medallion taxi cab outright. With exorbitant lease fees forcing drivers to work endless shifts just to turn a profit, many drivers have turned to banks in hopes of landing a taxi cab purchase loan. Although an expensive commitment, taxi drivers who own medallions turn much higher profits than those who must pay lessors. Taxi loans pose little risk for banks, who can simply repossess unpaid vehicles and medallions and quickly unload them in the hot taxi market of New York City.

Read more: How Much Does it Cost to Become a Cab Driver in New York? | eHow

I thought you liked rich guys who make money hand over fist off those drivers who need money, and isn't NY the supply side capital of the world?

[speechlesstx]

Interesting how you omitted the paragraphs before that...

Prior to employment as a taxi driver in New York City, a driver must obtain a taxi license. The fees for "Yellow" taxicabs are the same as those for "For-Hire" vehicles, but only yellow taxis are eligible for medallions. A time of publication, applications require a $75 fingerprinting fee, a $60 license fee and a $26 drug testing fee. Applicants that are rejected or have incomplete applications after four months of initiation, will not receive refunds.

Mandatory Training

As part of the taxi license process, the New York City TLC requires applicants to complete six hours of an approved defensive driving course, as well as completion of a "Yellow" Taxicab School course. There is no set fee for defensive driving courses, as individual instructors or business have the discretion to determine their own price.

However, Yellow Taxicab Schools offer both 24 and 80 hour courses for $175 and $325 respectively. Either course is acceptable, although the 80 hour course provides greater instruction on the required taxi exam, which costs an additional $25.

Medallion Leases

Due to high demand, the idea of purchasing a taxi medallion is unrealistic for many New York City cab drivers. In fact, the sale price for taxi medallions has eclipsed $750,000 in recent years, and continues to move toward $1 million as of 2011. As such, taxi drivers often lease their medallion vehicles from fleets of taxi companies. Leases vary, but an average weekly lease rate may creep close to $1,000. Drivers who lease medallion taxis are not permitted to sublet their vehicles as per TLC regulations.

[talaniman]

I figured you could read the whole thing for yourself, but that's my point in supplying the link to show how it takes more than slapping a sign on a car and calling yourself a taxi. Things have changed since the good old days.

A poor guy has to have money to get a job, or even vote for that matter. Its not me saying illegals are taking all the jobs, Tom did. Oh I hate corporations, and so do conservatives, so that makes me one of you guys so show the proper respect conservatives are entitled too!!

[speechlesstx]

I figured you could read the whole thing for yourself, but that's my point in supplying the link to show how it takes more than slapping a sign on a car and calling yourself a taxi. Things have changed since the good old days.

I believe that was tom's point, "before government got involved" the poor guy could start a taxi service with minimal investment. After the government got involved that minimal investment is a million bucks. Government ruins everything.