[NeedKarma]

That does indeed show your level of discourse LOL.

[speechlesstx]

And those greedy bast@rd insurance companies have been raising those premiums and stopping them from providing certain benefits will save you nothing. And I ASSUME the church pays those premiums and doesn't deduct a part of a workers pay to support paying those premiums. All the companies who offer employer based insurance do but if the church DOESN'T you may have a point,but unless you can indeed verify it,you may have a belief,or opinion, but not facts so do your homework, and don't assume.

Tal, all employer based insurance is either paid for or subsidized by the employer. You cannot seriously expect the church to subsidize something that violates their beliefs, ESPECIALLY when there never was any contraception crisis to begin with. This whole thing started with a sham testimony by a college student and ended with a shell game "compromise." We're not stupid and we're not backing down from protecting our constitutional rights.

guess that's why all the civilized countries have universal health care to keep the religions out of the health care process and NOW it makes perfect sense. Thanks Speech for making the case.

So since the U.S. doesn't one can only conclude we aren't a civilized country?

[NeedKarma]

So since the U.S. doesn't one can only conclude we aren't a civilized country?

No.

False dilemma - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

A false dilemma (also called false dichotomy, the either-or fallacy, fallacy of false choice, black-and/or-white thinking, or the fallacy of exhaustive hypotheses) is a type of informal fallacy that involves a situation in which only two alternatives are considered, when in fact there is at least one additional option.

False dilemma can arise intentionally, when fallacy is used in an attempt to force a choice (such as, in some contexts, the assertion that "if you are not with us, you are against us").

His statement can also be read as all civilized countries other than the US.
The US is indeed a civilized country... barely :D

[excon]

Hello again, Steve:

If he supports the mandate then he supports religious institutions closing their doors to helping people.

I don't know.. If it was ME, and I was running one of those institutions geared towards helping people, and I was faced with making a choice between the lesser of two evils: (1) holding my nose and covering those things that I'm morally opposed to, OR (2) closing my doors, thereby DEPRIVING people in need of my services, not to mention my family and my creditors, I'd pick the one that does the LEAST damage.

You seem to think they'd close. I don't think they would.

Excon

[speechlesstx]

No.

False dilemma - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

His statement can also be read as all civilized countries other than the US.
The US is indeed a civilized country...barely :D

I really don't think Tal needs your help.

[speechlesstx]

[QUOTE=excon;3360241]Hello again, Steve:

I don't know.. If it was ME, and I was running one of those institutions geared towards helping people, and I was faced with making a choice between the lesser of two evils: (1) holding my nose and covering those things that I'm morally opposed to, OR (2) closing my doors, thereby DEPRIVING people in need of my services, not to mention my family and my creditors, I'd pick the one that does the LEAST damage.

You seem to think they'd close. I don't think they would.

excon[/QUOTE

You can't seem to make up your mind if compromising one's principles is a good thing or a bad thing. So how long do you think that group of nuns can survive after paying the fines heaped on them?

[paraclete]

So since the U.S. doesn't one can only conclude we aren't a civilized country?

I never knew the boy was so quick, did you

[talaniman]

This whole debate is moot because Obama is working on an exemption you can live with. But I got to say your nuns are some slick business folks if the can leverage their help and get workers to convert to their way of thinking. I mean if they can build, lease, rent HOSPITALS, and missions, and pay nurses and doctors, they ain't that broke.

No body has been fined yet, and I seriously doubt any will ever be. We will see what the courts say about those for PROFIT true believers who try that though. Seems to be aimed at just the females so far and that bothers me.

But of course the nuns who have spoken out and said so have been blasted by the righties. And you may think we are so civilized here, but I think we could/should do much better.

[speechlesstx]

This whole debate is moot because Obama is working on an exemption you can live with. But I got to say your nuns are some slick business folks if the can leverage their help and get workers to convert to their way of thinking. I mean if they can build, lease, rent HOSPITALS, and missions, and pay nurses and doctors, they ain't that broke.

You obviously don't know how these things work. The vast majority of churches and their ministries operate on a shoestring budget. They can't afford to pay thousands in fines and it's patently absurd to force a groups of nuns to furnish contraceptive coverage.

No body has been fined yet, and I seriously doubt any will ever be. We will see what the courts say about those for PROFIT true believers who try that though. Seems to be aimed at just the females so far and that bothers me.

Funny how you aren't bothered by destroying the first amendment.

But of course the nuns who have spoken out and said so have been blasted by the righties. And you may think we are so civilized here, but I think we could/should do much better.

Tell it to that hungry mom and her kids that would have been fed with that fine money.

[tomder55]

So when will Obama end his war on women ?

White House War on Women Escalates | Washington Free Beacon

[speechlesstx]

[QUOTE=tomder55;3360800]so when will Obama end his war on women ?

White House War on Women Escalates | Washington Free Beacon[/QUOTE

No, they LOVE women.

[talaniman]

Nice try fellas, but woman spoke in the last election and you would do well to listen.

Nancy K. Kaufman: Women and the Vote in 2012

For those candidates looking to court women voters, focusing on the survival of programs that keep food on the table, provide medical care, ensure a fair and equitable workplace, and give women the deciding voice in their own reproductive health care choices is a good place to start. And to be heard by those candidates, we women must speak up, make our votes count, and ensure that whoever governs, from state capitals to Capitol Hill and the White House, is held accountable to us.

How women ruled the 2012 election and where the GOP went wrong - CNN.com

"Women like all voters felt the economics were most important," Swers said. "Women tend to be more supportive of government spending (such as cutting things as Medicaid, and food stamps) than men are ... so they were less responsive to Romney in that way and more responsive to Obama's message on empathy and helping the middle class."

Easy to see which side women voters took. So keep on ignoring the facts right in front of your face.

[speechlesstx]

Nice try fellas, but woman spoke in the last election and you would do well to listen.

Nancy K. Kaufman: Women and the Vote in 2012



How women ruled the 2012 election and where the GOP went wrong - CNN.com



Easy to see which side women voters took. So keep on ignoring the facts right in front of your face.

I know the results, but I also know that the people were shortchanged by the compliant media. Six years of campaigning for president and Obama still hasn't been vetted by the adoring media.

[NeedKarma]

I also know that the people were shortchanged by the compliant media. Six years of campaigning for president and Obama still hasn't been vetted by the adoring media.

Are americans that dumb? They will do as they are told? How did the Bushs and Reagan and Ford and Nixon get into the White House?

That about not taking any personal responsibility - it always has to be someone else's fault.

[excon]

Hello again, wingers:

Can we switch gears for a moment? I KNOW we're not going to convince you that you ARE at war with women, and you're NOT going to convince us that you aren't.

So, this is more about POLITICS than women. I want to know MORE about HOW the Republicans plan to change the dynamics, IF what Steve said is true - that women have been sold a MYTH. You DO know that, using the same tired arguments, you LOST the women's vote. Are you going to keep on doing the SAME thing and hope for a different result?

I'm just looking out for you.. I don't want you get ROUTED in 2014.

excon

[speechlesstx]

Are americans that dumb? They will do as they are told? How did the Bushs and Reagan and Ford and Nixon get into the White House?

That about not taking any personal responsibility - it always has to be someone else's fault.

You try shouting louder than the media, let me know how that works out for you.

[excon]

Hello again, Steve:

Obama still hasn't been vetted by the adoring media.

Birtherism?? Is that all you got? You're going to get SMASHED in 2014.

Excon

[NeedKarma]

Study Finds Obama Received "Unrelentingly Negative" Media Coverage

Study Finds Obama Received "Unrelentingly Negative" Media Coverage | Research | Media Matters for America

[speechlesstx]

Study Finds Obama Received "Unrelentingly Negative" Media Coverage

Study Finds Obama Received "Unrelentingly Negative" Media Coverage | Research | Media Matters for America

As if the guy coordinating with the White House has any credibility? LOL, you crack me up sometimes.

[speechlesstx]

Hello again, Steve:

Birtherism???? Is that all you got?? You're gonna get SMASHED in 2014.

excon

Geez, not that again. You know damn well I'm not a birther.