[NeedKarma]

Sure. Point of view can be a powerful thing. The eagle in the tree easily sees the rabbit. The rabbit surrounded by thistles and bushes can hardly see at all.

Ah yes, but the cold beer does not know what the peanut sees.

[ActionJackson]

Ah yes, but the cold beer does not know what the peanut sees.

Don't forget the salt and perhaps the lemon.

[Bestsinger101]

Rachie

I certainly believe in a higher power but with regards to losing a faith.

I had on occasion taken my disabled neighbour to Church as he had no one to go with, I was often to referred to as 'Georges (next door neighbours) little saint' and God had surely found me and I was surely a good Chrisitan loving her neighbour etc...

That I assisted my neighbour because I wanted to, not in the name of Christianity but because someone needed help and I could give that help.

The majority of the members were very against other denominations and religions and one lady in particular told me that those people (including me) would not reach 'heaven' for believing in the 'wrong' religion, no matter how good they were.

I visited many different churches over the years, supporting people in my voluntary work, I have worked in Africa and have 'helped' the sick and dying, whose faith was unmeasurably strong even in the face of extreme poverty and I saw that religion can be bring people and communitites together and not just create war and fighting.

These people truly believe that their loved ones who have died will be raised to heaven. I am in awe of their belief in their faith, but I do not share their belief, but this does not make me a bad person or does it?

I wonder if Jesus did come back to earth, would this create peace?

[ActionJackson]

Rachie I certainly believe in a higher power but with regards to loosing a faith. I had on occassion taken my disabled neighbour to Church as he had no one to go with, I was often to referred to as 'Georges (next door neighbours) little saint' and God had surely found me and I was surely a good Chrisitan loving her neighbour etc...... The fact of the matter is that I assisted my neighbour because I wanted to, not in the name of Christianity but because someone needed help and I could give that help.
The majority of the members were very against other denominations and religions and one lady in particular told me that those people (including me) would not reach 'heaven' for believing in the 'wrong' religion, no matter how good they were.
I visited many different churches over the years, supporting people in my voluntary work, I have worked in Africa and have 'helped' the sick and dying, whose faith was unmeasurably strong even in the face of extreme poverty and I saw that religion can be bring people and communitites together and not just create war and fighting.
These people truly believe that their loved ones who have died will be raised to heaven. I am in awe of their belief in their faith, but I do not share their belief, but this does not make me a bad person or does it?
I wonder if Jesus did come back to earth, would this create peace?

From a Christian's perspective, the lady who said that people of other religions won't make it to heaven is right considering the fact that Christians believe that the only way to the Kingdom of God is through faith in Jesus Christ.

Secondly, it is commedable that you desire to help others in need. That is a good trait and it certainly beats the alternative which would be to do nothing when you could clearly see that someone needed help. However, from a Christian perspective, works (even very good works) is not enough. Entry into the Kingdom of Heaven is by faith in Jesus Christ.

Thirdly, you spoke of a person's "strong faith." Many people have a strong faith in one thing or the other. Some have tons of faith that their stocks will be worth more tomorrow than they are today. There are some people who have a strong faith in Satan or some other false god. Strong faith won't gain a person entry into the Kingdom unless that faith is in Jesus Christ.

[startover22]

Thanks Action, you made it very clear that you need full faith in Jesus Christ to get to Heaven! I hope I make it, sometimes my faith is not what it should be! Start...

[ActionJackson]

Thanks Action, you made it very clear that you need full faith in Jesus Christ to get to Heaven! I hope I make it, sometimes my faith is not what it should be! Start....

Mine falters from time to time as well. I've gone through some pretty trying times. If you have the desire, you will be fine.

[ordinaryguy]

From a Christian's perspective, the lady who said that people of other religions won't make it to heaven is right considering the fact that Christians believe that the only way to the Kingdom of God is through faith in Jesus Christ.

Secondly, it is commedable that you desire to help others in need. That is a good trait and it certainly beats the alternative which would be to do nothing when you could clearly see that someone needed help. However, from a Christian perspective, works (even very good works) is not enough. Entry into the Kingdom of Heaven is by faith in Jesus Christ.

Thirdly, you spoke of a person's "strong faith." Many people have a strong faith in one thing or the other. Some have tons of faith that their stocks will be worth more tomorrow than they are today. There are some people who have a strong faith in Satan or some other false god. Strong faith won't gain a person entry into the Kingdom unless that faith is in Jesus Christ.

AJ-- One question, if you don't mind.

You seem to use the terms "Kingdom of Heaven", "Kingdom of God", and "heaven" interchangeably. You also seem to imply that it is accessible to the saved only after their death. Is the "heaven" inhabited by the saved after their earthly death and resurrection different from the "Kingdom of Heaven" that Jesus proclaimed to be "at hand"? To me, that means it's available and fully accessible right now, in this life, in this body.

[ActionJackson]

AJ-- One question, if you don't mind.

You seem to use the terms "Kingdom of Heaven", "Kingdom of God", and "heaven" interchangeably. You also seem to imply that it is accessible to the saved only after their death. Is the "heaven" inhabited by the saved after their earthly death and resurrection different from the "Kingdom of Heaven" that Jesus proclaimed to be "at hand"? To me, that means it's available and fully accessible right now, in this life, in this body.

In one sense, I believe that Christians living today are part of God's Kingdom. We are His children and He is our God. There is a living relationship between us. However, Christ prayed Thy Kingdom come Thy will be done on earth as it is in Heaven. That shows a differentiation between Heaven and earth.

Read Matthew 13:38-42. It speaks of a future event when Christ will return with His angels, remove all things that offend and Christ will rule. I believe that the earth will be restored to the perfect state that it was in before Adam's fall. Heaven will be on earth. Both dead Christians and those who will be alive upon His return will all be members of the Kingdom of God.

[Bestsinger101]

Secondly, it is commedable that you desire to help others in need. That is a good trait and it certainly beats the alternative which would be to do nothing when you could clearly see that someone needed help. However, from a Christian perspective, works (even very good works) is not enough. Entry into the Kingdom of Heaven is by faith in Jesus Christ.

Thirdly, you spoke of a person's "strong faith." Many people have a strong faith in one thing or the other. Some have tons of faith that their stocks will be worth more tomorrow than they are today. There are some people who have a strong faith in Satan or some other false god. Strong faith won't gain a person entry into the Kingdom unless that faith is in Jesus Christ.

I thank you for your answer and I am truly glad that you have your faith, many people at the various different churches I have gone to have prayed and sang and danced to God and have done nothing to help their fellow human beings, they have never helped or seen a dying person who wanted their hand held because they were afraid, and yes they did believe in God but they were still scared. They have never shopped for their neighbour.

People can help other people without religion guiding them, and if it so that I do not reach the so called 'heaven' then so be it, but at least I have lived with the fact that I have 'been there' for people who needed me and were in great need, and I shall die fulfilled.

Most of the people I saw in Africa had a Christian faith, but some did not, they chose other paths but who are we to judge and condemn them.

I wish you well

[ActionJackson]

I thank you for your answer and I am truly glad that you have your faith, many people at the various different churches I have gone to have prayed and sang and danced to God and have done nothing to help their fellow human beings, they have never helped or seen a dying person who wanted their hand held because they were afraid, and yes they did believe in God but they were still scared. They have never shopped for their neighbour.

People can help other people without religion guiding them, and if it so that I do not reach the so called 'heaven' then so be it, but at least I have lived with the fact that I have 'been there' for people who needed me and were in great need, and I shall die fulfilled.

Most of the people I saw in Africa had a Christian faith, but some did not, they chose other paths but who are we to judge and condemn them.

I wish you well

You mat not accept Christ now but things change. You may find yourself a faithful Christian 2 years from now.

If you do seek a relationship with Jesus Christ at some future point I urge you to seek with an open heart and an open mind. Read the Bible and try to learn what it is saying to you. I'm personally disheartened by what so many Christians these days profess that is totally contrary to what the Bible teaches. Even Pastors, Bishops, and Priests teach erroneous things. Try to seek what Moses, and the prophets taught before Christ then learn what Jesus Christ, and the Apostles taught.

[NeedKarma]

You mat not accept Christ now but things change. You may find yourself a faithful Christian 2 years from now.

And you may find yourself a faithful atheist/agnostic 2 years from now. I think the odds are about the same, don't you?

[ActionJackson]

And you may find yourself a faithful atheist/agnostic 2 years from now. I think the odds are about the same, don't you?

One can only hope but all things are in God's hands and He knows His sheep and they hear His voice. If and atheist never hears God's voice then they aren't one of His sheep and are not in need of a Shepherd. All things, then, are as they should be.

[NeedKarma]

AJ,
I agree about not being His sheep. An atheist does not indeed hear God's voice, they follow their own (I assume most don't hear voices in their head).

[ActionJackson]

AJ,
I agree about not being His sheep. An atheist does not indeed hear God's voice, they follow their own (I assume most don't hear voices in their head).

They say that man only uses about 10% of his brain. I suppose those who have the capacity to hear, hear... and those who don't, don't.

[ordinaryguy]

People can help other people without religion guiding them, and if it so that I do not reach the so called 'heaven' then so be it, but at least I have lived with the fact that I have 'been there' for people who needed me and were in great need, and I shall die fulfilled.

It's interesting to me that so much of this and other discussions about religion is focused on what is required in order to make it to "heaven" after we die. As though the only point of living this life was to determine where we spend the next one. I prefer to think that this earthly life has great spiritual value in itself, quite apart from the question of what happens afterward. As I learn better how to live this life "in the Spirit", I become less and less concerned about what will happen after I die.

[nanajo1]

I read every post in this thread and something bothers me. There are coments about mormons saying their way is the only way, christians the same, catholics etc. Can someone finally answer a question for me? When God created Adam and Eve did he supply them with a manual that stated the contents therin were the only materials to be relied on? Did he say that there was proof inside that there was only one religion and name it? I could have sworn that I was taught that 'who ever believeth in me, shall enter my kingdom" there was nothing stating that it was only a catholic, or mormon or Jew or even Pagan. I see the word Pagan used so lightly here. Does anyone here even know what a true Pagan is or what they believe in and please, please do not be the one to state that a Pagan is a heathen or a devil worshiper. The truth is that Pagans do not believe in the devil, they believe in God, and Jesus and a Goddess. I guess so they think of it as mom, dad and child. Not a farfetched idea really and not that wrong. To each his own.

[Hope12]

why is it that people who claim to be "christian" usually seem to be closed-minded and judgemental (the very opposite of Christ)? i am not trying to insult anyone in particular, i am just saddened because i feel like i am losing my faith....i dont proclaim to know all about God, or have any answers, but why can't people accept the fact that we will NEVER have the answers? i have faith in a higher power/intelligent designer (God) and believe that Jesus, if he in fact existed, was surely one of the most spiritually advanced humans to ever walk the earth. i WANT to believe...but lately it is getting harder and harder--the so called "bible churches" and "non-denominational" churches seem to be the worst at proclaiming their truth as THE truth, and judging other people as unworthy.
i was raised Catholic and after trying a bunch of different denominations, i have come back to the catholic church, as it is the one i feel the most comfortable in, and i have had a great experience with my priest. i was pregnant when he married me and my husband, and he was so kind to us both. many of my baptist friends think the catholics are evil and pagan and blablabla. i am so tired of hearing it. why can't we all just get along? im starting to think if jesus came back to earth, he wouldnt attend any church at all, he woul probably be more at home sitting in silence with a buddhist monk in nature.
anyways....does anyone else have this problem??:rolleyes:

Hello Rachie,
That God see what is in our heart. He could care less what we say we believe, it is what God himself finds when He examines our heart. The scripture that comes to my mind is found at 2 Timothy 3:1-7

“But know this, that in the last days critical times hard to deal with will be here. 2 For men will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, self-assuming, haughty, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, disloyal, 3 having no natural affection, not open to any agreement, slanderers, without self-control, fierce, without love of goodness, 4 betrayers, headstrong, puffed up [with pride], lovers of pleasures rather than lovers of God,
Now Rachie, Notice verse 5:

“5 having a form of godly devotion but proving false to its power; and from these turn away. 6 For from these arise those men who slyly work their way into households and lead as their captives weak women loaded down with sins, led by various desires, 7 always learning and yet never able to come to an accurate knowledge of truth.”

The truth of who we really are God finds in our heart, the seed of motivation. Our faith, love and obedience to God is not found in any building or in any set denomination, but it is found by God in what He see’s deep in our heart.

This skeptical view of religion is understandable. Many religious organizations are mired in political intrigue and moral hypocrisy and are drenched in innocent blood from countless religious wars. While rejecting the religious organizations that are sullied by hypocrisy and deception, some have made the mistake of also rejecting the Bible, which they think condones such practices.

In reality, the Bible condemns hypocrisy and lawlessness. Jesus said to the religious leaders of his day: “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because you resemble whitewashed graves, which outwardly indeed appear beautiful but inside are full of dead men’s bones and of every sort of uncleanness. In that way you also, outwardly indeed, appear righteous to men, but inside you are full of hypocrisy and lawlessness.”Matthew 23:27, 28.

The Bible encourages Christians to be neutral in all political affairs. Rather than urging believers to kill one another, it directs that they should be willing to die for one another. John 15:12, 13; 18:36; 1 John 3:10-12

Instead of being “intolerant and divisive,” true religion, based on the Bible, is “broadly inclusive.” The apostle Peter said: “God is not partial, but in every nation the man that fears him and works righteousness is acceptable to him.”Acts 10:34, 35.

Did you notice that Rachie, God is not partial, but if we have a healthy fear and work righteousness we are acceptable to Him. So don’t worry about those who say this and that, because it is not important, it only matters what
God says and how he see us.

The Bible tells us that humans are created in God’s image. Genesis 1:26, 27 While this does not mean that humans resemble God in a physical way, it does mean that humans have the ability to reflect God’s personality traits, including the capacity for spiritual things, or spirituality.

It is logical to believe that God would also provide us with the means to satisfy our spiritual needs, as well as proper direction by which we can distinguish between what is beneficial and what is harmful to us spiritually. Just as God created our bodies with a superbly designed immune system, which fights disease and helps keep us healthy, he also equipped us with a conscience, or inner voice, which can help us make right decisions and avoid practices that are harmful physically and spiritually. Romans 2:14, 15

As we know, for our immune system to work, it must be nourished properly. Similarly, for our conscience to work, we need to feed it with good spiritual food.
Identifying the kind of food that will keep us spiritually healthy, Jesus said: “Man must live, not on bread alone, but on every utterance coming forth through God’s mouth.” Matthew 4:4 God’s utterances are recorded in his Word, the Bible, and they are “beneficial for teaching, for reproving, for setting things straight.” 2 Timothy 3:16 It is up to us to put forth the effort to take in that spiritual nourishment. To the extent that we come to know the Bible and endeavor to apply its principles in our life, to that extent we will benefit spiritually and physically.Isaiah 48:17, 18.

Rachie, this surly takes time to improve our spiritual health by studying the Bible; and time, it seems, is an increasingly rare commodity. But the rewards are worth the effort! Don’t listen to what everyone around you say, but listen to God himself as he speaks to you through His Word, the Bible.

Take care,
Hope12

[startover22]

I have to say that God is my voice. He is my right and wrong! I am pretty sure that my right and wrong are "almost" the same as some of yours. NeedKarma this is not a judgemental post, and I already know that we disagree on something's, I really like you for that! We all learn from each other. Believe me, the more I talk and try and figure things out, the more questions I have about how I have lived my life before I figured it out! I think we should keep it to "each his own", and like Ordinaryguy (really wrong name)is right, we should live this life to the fullest! To every one of you:
I would like you to look at yourself and be who YOU are. There are going to be times where there are hypocrites and haters in your life, who knows at some point that description may fit you, but please try to realize that! We as humans are not perfect. Be careful with your life, it means a great deal now and later! Love, Start

[NeedKarma]

Start,
I know exactly who I am. I try my best not to be a hypocrite, feel free to point out times when I am. What I certainly do not do is condemn others who are not like me.

I am very careful with my life, my children depend on me. :)

[startover22]

I can see that about you. I am just saying it all kind of boils down to that. That's all. I am working hard not to condem people for being different than me. I have yet to perfect it!

I got to thinking about what I just said, and to tell you the truth, I am having a hard time on whether sometimes I am judgemental or if sometimes I just point out the (my) truth then follow it with my feelings. Sometimes my feelings come across as judging but everyone has their own"feelings" about a certain subject right? I mean lets take abortion for instance, I think it is wrong, and I will go on to tell you my feelings about it. I wouldn't sit here and call you names because you had one, I would just say why I think it was wrong. Next what about cheating on your husband or wife, I would hope that people thought this is wrong, but on this site, it seems so backwards to me. In no case would I think cheating was good, some people on here think it is because some good came after it, I disagree... Anyway, just to say I am a talker and when I say how I feel about something it doesn't mean I am sitting here judging anyone, it means we see thing differently! Thanks for letting me go on and on... Now, I will try to see the grey but I am still a very black and white gal... I am working on it!