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Skell · Apr 16, 2007, 11:06 PM

Originally Posted by Matt3046

-Yes, he obviously had some kind of mental defect. Do you not think that the government should screen who it allows, to enter the US. I mean after 911 don't you think that someone would have been paying attention.

-Besides, anyone can make a bomb, or stab someone etc. etc.

These two comments contradict each other somewhat!!

Matt3046 · Apr 17, 2007, 12:20 AM

Originally Posted by Skell

These two comments contradict each other somewhat!!!!

I am not understanding how. I think my terminology may be confusing you.
:)

Wait I think I understand what you are saying, that if anyone can do these things it doesn't matter that he was a foreign student. Any way it's really not all that important, it's just my thoughts on a local subject.

Synnen · Apr 17, 2007, 05:02 AM

Well, frankly, this incident ticks me off because it's one more reason "the government has to protect the people".

The government is too involved as it is! I don't want to be protected... I want to be able to protect myself!

GaH!

ordinaryguy · Apr 17, 2007, 05:13 AM

Originally Posted by Synnen

well, frankly, this incident ticks me off because it's one more reason "the government has to protect the people".

The government is too involved as it is! I don't want to be protected....I want to be able to protect myself!

GaH!

YES!! When he takes the oath of office, the President swears to protect and defend the Constitution, and take care that the laws be faithfully executed. Not a word about protecting the people.

NeedKarma · Apr 17, 2007, 05:20 AM

Just piping in to say that I'm happy to be Canadian.

NowWhat · Apr 17, 2007, 06:45 AM

We have a gun in our home. I like the fact that it is here. Luckily, we have never had to use it. But, you never know. I do feel safer having it - although, if I did have to use it - I would probably be dead before I got the thing out. Having a child in the house it is put in a case on a high shelf - actually it is in two different cases - one for the gun and one for the bullets and clip.
I think that gun laws could be different. With the fact that there are so many of them in our country - I think that if you are going to own one legally that you should have to learn how to use it properly. Have a brief seminar on gun safety that would go through the basics.
When I bought mine (for my husband) there was a waiting period and they did a background check. No big deal. Then they just gave me the gun and said have a nice day. I really have no idea how to shoot it. (I know how to get it loaded) I just figured that if someone broke into our home I would point and shoot.
We plan on going to a firing range to learn - but that is just going to be for "fun".

Now, I know that none of what I just said would have ANY bearing on what happened in VA yesterday. It really sickens me that this happened. I think there was a real break down in communication with the first 2 shootings and then the rest. The college and police should be ashamed. They had information that could have saved 30 lives.

Synnen · Apr 17, 2007, 06:53 AM

You know... no matter what the campus and police did, they would have done something wrong in the public's eye.

They very probably have laws and procedures that they have to follow in order to be able to convict a criminal.

Had they alerted campus when they didn't have an identity, how can we know that wouldn't have caused a panic? How can we know that THAT wouldn't have set the shooter off to kill in a different place?

It really irks me to see the campus and police blamed for something that was ENTIRELY the fault of some guy who went off the deep end. I am sure that the authorities handled the case the best they could with the information that they had.

NowWhat · Apr 17, 2007, 06:59 AM

If 2 people were just murdered and the police know that a gunman is possible still on campus - shouldn't someone know? If nothing else the teaching staff? They could have done something. They could have locked the campus down. Made it impossible to get into a classroom. Something.

excon · Apr 17, 2007, 07:16 AM

Hello:

I hate the cops!! But, I don't think they did anything wrong here.

They found a murder. They find murders all the time. They had NO indication that this murder was anything other than any of the murders they investigate. They had no reason to think that a serial killer was on the loose. They had no reason to warn anybody.

A teacher was killed here recently ON the campus of UW, by her estranged boyfriend. They didn't know that's who he was at the time. All they knew was that they had a murder. They didn't LOCK down the entire campus. They didn't warn anybody. They were right. So were the VA cops.

excon

PS> If you ever see another post where I SUPPORT the cops, please kill me.

NowWhat · Apr 17, 2007, 07:26 AM

I guess when something like this happens, it is in our nature to ask what could have been done differently. Or maybe we just look for someone to blame.
This shooter was a student. There were 2 hours between the first shootings and the 2nd. At first they thought it was a murder-suicide. I guess there is no magic answer to make sense of it all. It is just sad.

magprob · Apr 17, 2007, 09:46 AM

All the politicians came on CSpam last night and had a moment of silence for the 32 killed. Bush gave a speech about how it it the duty of the gov to protect the people. They don't miss an opportunity these days to pound that into Americas head. The one thing they do know though, if they take the peoples guns, they only take them from the people that were not a threat in the first place.

RubyPitbull · Apr 17, 2007, 10:20 AM

Originally Posted by excon

Hello:

I hate the cops!!! But, I don't think they did anything wrong here.

excon

PS> If you ever see another post where I SUPPORT the cops, please kill me.

https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/crimin...son-82841.html
See posting #6 in the above link.

Hmm. This request has been made in writing on a public forum, so I guess I am covered. So, excon, where might I track you down with my semi-automatic?

-------------

magprob, I agree with you completely. It always comes down to the actual law abiding people vs "others". It is not just guns but with everything considered illegal.

Matt, the guy was from South Korea, not China. Major difference. Many South Koreans come here to study. Are you going to block all of them from the chance to further their education just because one guy was off his nut? I know that the government has a lot to answer for. I know that there is quite a lot here that needs change. I don't know what the answer is to these problems for the United States. For me, I am thinking...

Skell, I like what you are saying about Australia. Soooo, how easy is it to get a resident alien card or citizenship in Aussieland? Remember our agreement about Phuket? I know you aren't married. Maybe we can help each other out here... ;)

The bottom line is that I have been seeing an increasing amount of hypocrisy from the U.S. Government and our elected/unelected officials. I am growing extremely disenchanted with this great nation of ours. Over the last number of years we seem to be purposefully running full force and diving head first into quicksand. I am left feeling completely ill at ease. If an Inconvenient Truth is dead on accurate, I hope that it will come to pass before we become a complete and total "Police State" and I have to worry every time I head on out the door just to run a simple errand.

Matt3046 · Apr 17, 2007, 10:37 AM

Ruby that's not what I said I said the government needs to look into the backgrounds of who they allow to enter the US.(I mean everyone in the US is obsessed with the backgrounds of everyone else) And I didn't say it was the polices fault, but whenever things like this happen it has to be examined, to see if there could have been better ways of handling it. The police are, after all, only human.

RubyPitbull · Apr 17, 2007, 10:59 AM

I agree with that. The problem is, until it happens, they can't come up with a solid plan to handle it. How do you plan for something like this? It is so off the charts crazy.

You made a comment earlier about it being another thing the government isn't telling us. We have so many people coming into this country to attend school. How do you know who to choose to sit down and give a "mentally unstable" test to? What kind of test would it be? How do you determine that? I am sure his background didn't show anything at first glance. He was a kid with South Korean transcripts. How long was he in this country? He might have shown up prior to 9/11 to attend college, for all we know. At the moment, the government needs to piece together all the unanswered questions. We will hear more in the coming days and weeks. I don't think they are withholding anything. I think this was a genuine, "Oh Mother of God" moment.

NowWhat · Apr 17, 2007, 11:01 AM

Originally Posted by Matt3046

but whenever things like this happen it has to be examined, to see if there could have been better ways of handling it. The police are, after all, only human.

I think that looking at a tragic thing like this and see what we can do to protect ourselves from it happening again - can turn a negative into a positive.
That is what we do as individuals - we look at mistakes that we make and learn from them.

RubyPitbull · Apr 17, 2007, 11:06 AM

Yes, so look let's look at the Columbine effect. We now have 5 year olds being suspended in school for sexual harassment and Boy Scouts being arrested for forgetting to take their pocket knives out of their jackets after an outing. Check the news reports on those. I am not kidding.

We have kinks in the system. We can't seem to get out of our own way at times. What is it that we have learned and corrected effectively? Yes, we are only human. That is the point. This stuff is so far from the norm that it is difficult to put an workable system in place. By the time we do, the greenhouse effect will have gotten to us first.

NowWhat · Apr 17, 2007, 11:14 AM

I know, sad but true. If a little boy kisses my daughter at school - he could be expelled for sexual harassment. (she's in 1st grade and still thinks boys are gross) I think it would be extreme. Not that I want boys going around kissing my kid - but it's like balls to the wall or nothing. Is there a happy medium?
Most all schools have a "No tolerance" policy. Yet, my kid has come home having been hit with a weapon at the end of a little boys arm. And, it is blown off. Come to school with a squirt gun and you are kicked out. What gives?
I just think there are areas in our society that think they are not vulnerable to what is going on in the world. We have learned in the last several years that sending your child to a school is not guaranteed safe - so we need to learn.
There needs to be more safety plans in place.

RubyPitbull · Apr 17, 2007, 11:23 AM

I agree. There also needs to be a little common sense in dealing with issues. It is not as if this happens so many times a day at every single school. For most schools, each incident should be handled rationally and logically. Some of the interpretations of the No Tolerance policies have led to over reactive hysteria on the part of some school officials. Others are too lax. As long as there are people in leadership positions who lack common sense and judgement, there will always be problems.

NowWhat · Apr 17, 2007, 11:32 AM

Some actions are "kids being kids" and you deal with it. Some things need parental intervention. The problem is some parents don't always know the difference.
But with school violence on the rise - what do you do?
There was a school in the news in the last year where a gunman came in and overtook a science class - let most of the kids go with the exception of 5 girls (I think) he sexually assaulted them and then killed some of them - if not all.
Then the school in Amish country - PA, where a sicko takes over the school and kills 7 girls execution style.
So, while we are expelling our kids for bringing unappropriate toys to school - nothing is being done to protect them by uping the security in schools.

RubyPitbull · Apr 17, 2007, 11:40 AM

Yes, I remember the story. And, the Amish will continue as they have been because of their belief system.

If you look at the instances, they are so few and far between. Yes, the consequences are deadly. But, how do you decide where to up the security and how far do you go with it? What would it entail? Then, there is the added expense of it all.