[NeedKarma]

But what about the Kardashians??

[speechlesstx]

Who?

[NeedKarma]

They are the queens of tom's town I am led to believe.

[talaniman]

David Bromwich: Romney, Netanyahu, and George Washington's Warning

Against the insidious wiles of foreign influence (I conjure you to believe me, fellow-citizens) the jealousy of a free people ought to be constantly awake, since history and experience prove that foreign influence is one of the most baneful foes of republican government.. . Excessive partiality for one foreign nation and excessive dislike of another cause those whom they actuate to see danger only on one side, and serve to veil and even second the arts of influence on the other.

A quote from one of our founders, George Washington.

Racists are those that holler about their rights while they make sure you have NONE! They justify it by saying "you are inferior, and of less value than I am". Then they put a boot up your arse for your own good.

Netenyahu is a racist, why else would he holler peace, and rights as he steadily advances settlements and moves the Palestinians further off their ancient lands? That's the tool of racism, segregation. What you thought he went to Israel to be presidential??

Naw he went to get the rich foreign money, and throw red meat to his crowd to show he was worth it.

[speechlesstx]

I guess you missed where I said Arabs have equal rights in Israel. Arab women have more rights in Israel than many Arab nations. Find another line of attack, this racism bullsh*t has got to stop.

[talaniman]

I guess you missed where I said Arabs have equal rights in Israel. Arab women have more rights in Israel than many Arab nations. Find another line of attack, this racism bullsh*t has got to stop.

You can't talk about it even? Your fair, and honest idea of things has nothing to do with what's going on in the world. I agree racism has to stop, but it never will if you don't even acknowledge it exists.

I am not attacking YOU, just stating my opinion of the middle east situation, which is ally or not, following anyone that starts a war that serves his interest, because he uses his enemies rhetoric for an excuse is FOOLISH!

Israel has every right to defend itself, if Iran attacks, NOT if it is afraid they will. Full guns blazing if they do. What's the point? We have a couple of Navys right there in their gulf. And one big a$$ bomb (20 to be precise) just waiting for them to screw up!

[tomder55]

The time to stop the Hitlers of the world is before they attack. Maybe you think Israel should respond after Tel Aviv is smoked ? The Mahdi-hatter ;and the 12'ers have made their intentions clear on more than one occasion.
As for the Palestinians ,especially Hamas ,I'd say a good time to stop treating them like the savages they are is when they change their operating charter that states their goal is the destruction of Israel.

[talaniman]

You made my first point, Iran doesn't have the capability of smoking Israel, but the Palestinians ARE being pushed further from their land, like those savages from America, the Indians. They fought back too, for all the good it did, for all the good it does the Palestinians.

Wonder why we didn't nuke the Russians before they nuked us, or the Chinese? So why does Israel have to smoke the Iranians? Do you really think the Russians and Chinese will just sit by, and let them do it? You better give this more thought I think.

Custer thought he had easy pickings when he saw the Sioux village, but he found out it wasn't as easy as he thought. You may not like Iran, but they have powerful allies too. Lets not be STUPID!!

[speechlesstx]

You can't talk about it even? Your fair, and honest idea of things has nothing to do with whats going on in the world. I agree racism has to stop, but it never will if you don't even acknowledge it exists.

I've talked racism enough, I'm not racist, Mitt's not racist, we're not racist. You guys just won't drop it, you have a vested interest in fanning the flames of racism.

[speechlesstx]

P.S. We racist conservative Texans just selected a Hispanic over the white guy to run for Senate.

[tomder55]

You made my first point, Iran doesn't have the capability of smoking Israel

And you made my point.. Germany was in no position to conquer Europe even as late as the march into the Rhineland;breaking the terms of Versaiiles in 1936 . Yet Hitler made Germany's intentions clear long before that.

but the Palestinians ARE being pushed further from their land,

Yeah the Israelis pushed them out of Gaza right ? Right now the effective border of 'Palestine' is almost back to the 1967 border . What you are indicating in your rant is that you too do not believe Israel has a right to exist. This is a growing sentiment of the left in this country .

This is all right in the President's playbook . The more he can get us talking about insignificant statements by Romney on his International tour ;the more he diverts attention from the lousy economic number that continue to come out this week.

[tomder55]

P.S. We racist conservative Texans just selected a Hispanic over the white guy to run for Senate.

Judging by the smears conservative blacks receive from the left ,I expect that they will soon call him an Uncle Juan .

[paraclete]

Tom Germany conquered Europe because no one stood up to Hitler, that may be the point you are making but no one stood up to Israel when they conquered the West Bank. Fifty years on we are still saying give it back and they are arguing about which part. Gaza is a horse of a different colour, Egypt didn't want it back and Israel don't want it, and so like the jews of Warsaw you have an enclave. When will you realise aparteid is alive and well and living in Israel because the solutions the world is trying to force there are unworkable. Four years of this american presidentcy and no progress don't you think it is time you left it to Israel and the palestinians to solve, with or without the gun

[talaniman]

They have a right to co exist. So do Palestinians. I also understand Manifest Destiny. Segregation, and the whole bit. I also understand the siege mentality that is the history of the region, and the tribal conflicts that have been going on for centuries.

Its got to be tough being the only Jews in an Arab neighborhood. Starting a war isn't the answer.

[tomder55]

They have a right to self defense.. What Clete flippantly describes as a 'conquer ' of the West Bank does not stand up to history. Israel did indeed strike the 1st blow when the combined armies of it's neighbors were poised to attack . So technically yes Israel started that war too . Does that make it the wrong call ? NO Does that make Israel the aggressor ? NO .
So the Iranians ,in defiance of the world ,continues to develop the weapon they desire to succeed in their stated goal of the destruction of Israel . When exactly should Israel take action ?
What would you expect from your nation under similar threat ?

[paraclete]

Tom don't sanitise history or put words in my mouth, Israel did not simply acquire the west bank and I made no comment about the necessity of action, my concerns lay wholely in the aftermath working itsself out over fifty years

The question is, is the threat to Isreal real, imagined, or rhetorical. That some iranian despot might make political capital out of Israel's existence might be expected and even foreseen, it is convenient to keep the populace focused on the external, rather than the internal and with Iraq out of the picture, Israel is close enough and has the potential to be an enemy. Israel doesn't need to take action, it can let the US fight this battle, so far they have done the heavy lifting Israel gains more from being a neighbour to arab nations than being a combatant. The moral highground is worth holding

What would my nation's response be? vigilance, a higher percentage of GDP invested in defense and perhaps even advancing our nuclear status, the technology is not unknown to us

[tomder55]

my concerns lay wholely in the aftermath working itsself out over fifty years

And if history had turned out differently ,would the world also be so adamant about the Arabs of the Levant returning the land to the Jews ?

The question is, is the threat to Isreal real, imagined, or rhetorical. That some iranian despot might make political capital out of Israel's existence might be expected and even foreseen, it is convenient to keep the populace focused on the external, rather than the internal and with Iraq out of the picture, Israel is close enough and has the potential to be an enemy.

It would appear to be a real threat .The Iranians are defying the collective world to acquire the weapon necessary . Again ;I refer back to Germany's remilitarization in defiance of Versailles .Then is when action was needed.

Israel doesn't need to take action, it can let the US fight this battle, so far they have done the heavy lifting Israel gains more from being a neighbour to arab nations than being a combatant. The moral highground is worth holding

Do you think they can trust the current administration ? If the US was doing the heavy lifting then yes there would be no issue.
Secretly the 'Arab world ' would cheer on if Israel eliminate the threat to the region that the Persians pose. There is no love lost.

[paraclete]

and if history had turned out differently ,would the world also be so adamant about the Arabs of the Levant returning the land to the Jews ?

Let's put it this way, the Balfour agreement was a useful piece of British imperialism with a very notable objective, but unrealistic before WWII. The jews returned and reclaimed the land and the arabs were offered citizenship but opted for war. If they want to come back that is the only way they will do it

It would appear to be a real threat .The Iranians are defying the collective world to acquire the weapon necessary . Again ;I refer back to Germany's remilitarization in defiance of Versailles .Then is when action was needed.

Very different circumstances and the Iranians are defying america not the world. If you hadn't interferred in their internal affairs you might have remained friends and then you would have built their reactors for them, you just don't like Russia getting the contract

Do you think they can trust the current administration ? If the US was doing the heavy lifting then yes there would be no issue.
Secretly the 'Arab world ' would cheer on if Israel eliminate the threat to the region that the Persians pose. There is no love lost.

Are your referring to the american administration, personally I wouldn't trust your administrations, any of them, any further than I could kick them and in my physical state that isn't far. The arabs would cheer if Israel were eliminated too. The saudi arabs might cheer, but the persian menace has existed off and on for more than three thousand years, you see Tom we have gone from the Japanese menace, the German menace, communist menace, those nations are now our trading partners, to the persian menace, you have your cuban menace and your venezuaelan menace. If you would learned to look at the world differently you might not attract so much menace and would have time to prevent the takeover of the US by your southern neighbours

[talaniman]

Neither side has clean hands, and they have shed blood for centuries. There will be no solution until they get tired, and that's never going to happen. They can't share, or come up with a compromise.

But letting Iran scare them into a stupid action is unacceptable. Iran has its own problems with the world putting on pressure, and a crumbling Syria. Not to mention the covert actions against them.

Be nice if the tribes of Abraham, and the tribes of Canaan could peacefully integrate, and coexist, on the same land.

[paraclete]

Be nice if the tribes of Abraham, and the tribes of Canaan could peacefully integrate, and coexist, on the same land.

Tal I think you know the answer to that, certainly from a biblical and therefore jewish perspective, however we are not dealing with the canaanites, the palestinians are arabs, the peoples of the surrounding territories and from even further afield, who filled the vacuum when the romans drove the jews out or even later when mudhatmad spread his falsehoods across the area with the sword and Salahdin conquered Jerusalem.

No one can say the place is theirs except by conquest, good heavens, even we Australians have conquered the place in the company of the British. The Israeli's are now in possession and the peoples of the region should be left to work it out