[speechlesstx]

I would argue your best guarantee to this is democracy and the election process. For a man of God you really have little faith in human kind and the country you live in if you feel that a killing machine is your best guarantee of protection.

I've said it before but this massive cultural difference you guys share to pretty much the rest of the industrialised / civilised world is something I actually feel sorry for you about.

That's a good point Skell, my faith is obviously not in man and as a believer that is as it should be. I still have to live here on earth however, and I agree with the founders that it is our natural right to have the means to defend our rights, our properties and our families. Weapons have been a part of that for millennia, they've just changed with the times and most of the time they never have to be used. We're not like sitting around waiting on a chance to blow someone away.

[speechlesstx]

These guys have a serious case of keyboard courage. All tough talk on anonymous internet boards but inactive pansies in real life.

LOL, can you say pot calling the kettle black?

[speechlesstx]

Thank you for speaking up and setting them straight. It's the gun loving, gun toting, rifle in the back window of the truck types i was talking about being embarrassed about. Needing guns to defend our legal rights? Ridiculous,

I'm still waiting for you to name names since you were addressing us. But it's nice to know you hold the same condescending attitude as Obama about us bitter gun lovin', bible thumpin' rednecks.

[cozyk]

I'm still waiting for you to name names since you were addressing us. But it's nice to know you hold the same condescending attitude as Obama about us bitter gun lovin', bible thumpin' rednecks.

That is indeed how you come across. YOUR words.

[NeedKarma]

That's a good point Skell, my faith is obviously not in man and as a believer that is as it should be. I still have to live here on earth however, and I agree with the founders that it is our natural right to have the means to defend our rights, our properties and our families. Weapons have been a part of that for millenia, they've just changed with the times and most of the time they never have to be used. We're not like sitting around waiting on a chance to blow someone away.

So you're saying that your god is OK with armed insurrections? Wow, that no different than militants islamists.

[ETWolverine]

Yes, that is correct, you are one of the coo-coos. You have a fixation on doomsday scenarios.
I'm just glad I don't live in your head.

My "fixation" on doomsday scenarios only exists because these things have happened before... not all that long ago either. We have seen democratic nations turn into dictatorships before, and many have resulted in the deaths of millions. The Nazi Third Reich was born from one of the most openly democratic and enlightened nations in history. Cuba was once the Riviera of Latin America. Lebanon was once the Riviera of the Middle East. All of these were enlightened countries with lots of personal civil rights, and every one of them ended up a dictatorship because people said that it could never happen and ignored those who warned them otherwise.

Kind of like you are trying to ignore me...

The parallels between what happened in those countries and what we are seeing now are quite stark if you take the time to compare them.

But you won't take the time to make that comparison because you are so enamoured of this President and his promises... many of which he has already broken, though you can't see that either.

I am a student of history and a trained professional analyst. You are a drone caught up in the Obama-mania. I work based on logic and fact. You work based on emotion and promisses. I see the patterns emerging from this President and the ways in which it is similar to our past. You see the glow of Obama's visage and are caught up in the cheer-leading.

That is why I seem coo-coo to you. You can't understand how anyone can possibly NOT be enamoured by Obama. But the REALITY of what he is doing doesn't match the glow, and eventually the glow won't be quite so bright, and you'll wonder how you could have missed what is so obvious to others.

Just keep in mind, doomsday scenarios have taken place in our history before. If I am laying out a doomsday scenario, perhaps you should look deeper into whether the scenario is possible and how to avoid it. Just ignoring the possibility is the surest way to make sure that the doomsday scenario comes to pass.

The Jews of Hitler-era Europe were caught off guard by the Third Reich. They had been warned decades earlier of the possibilities of something like what Hitler was planning by the likes of Jabotinsky, Hertzle and others, but they were ignored. "It could never happen here," was what most Jews of Europe said. Even after the Jews of Germany and Austria were thrown in the Death Camps, the Jews of Poland and Hungary continued to say "It could never happen here". They ignored the warnings, ignored the possibility of the doomsday scenario set forth by Theodore Hertzle and Ze'ev Jabotinsky.

At least look at the doomsday scenario before you reject it. Test and analyze to see if the possibility exists before you reject it. ANd if the possibility DOES exist, then at least see if there is anything you can do to prevent or mitigate that risk. But ignore it at your own peril.

See the facts for what they are:

Our President has nationalized 10 of the 12 largest banks in the USA.
He has nationalized 2 of the 3 largest auto makers in the USA.
He has nationalized the largest insurance company in the USA.
He has passed laws that tax you for breathing, control how much energy you use to heat your home, and what lightbulbs you use.
He is attempting to take control of the health care industry through creation of a government single-payer system.
He is in the process of creating legislation that controls the amount of sugars, fats and carbs you eat, and how restaurants prepare the food they sell.
He is creating legislation that caps executive salaries for ALL companies and limits bonuses.
He has increased taxes to the middle class (despite promisses not to do so) along with the rich.
He is increasing welfare programs so as to take the money he gets from the rich and middle class in the form of taxes and redistribute it to the poor.
And he has created a national debt so high that our grandchildren will be paying it off, which essentially makes us, our children and our grandchildren serfs of the state by controlling them through a debt they can never pay off. (This is serfdom at its most basic... debt was how the lords controlled the serfs in the Middle Ages.)

All of these are facts. They are not "scenarios". They are not made up. These things are happening now. Look at them and tell me that you don't see a disturbing pattern in all these actions. Follow that pattern to it's logical conclusion. Do it with an open mind and an eye on history.

Then tell me TRUTHFULLY what you think of the pattern you are seeing.

If you have the guts to look at it truthfully and with an open mind.

But I doubt you do.

Elliot

[NeedKarma]

All of these are facts. They are not "scenarios". They are not made up.

Yes they are made up. For instance explain to me how he taxes your breathing.

[speechlesstx]

[/B]That is indeed how you come across. YOUR words.

Cozy, out of respect for I'll refrain from mentioning how you come across. Still waiting for you to name names however.

[450donn]

Good summary to what is/has happened in the last 100 or so days under the dictatorship of the Nobama administration. Just hope that in 1-1/2 years this insanity can be stopped with a new congress and in 3-1/2 years we can put an end to the total madness in the WH.

[450donn]

Yes they are made up. For instance explain to me how he taxes your breathing.

It is called Cap and Trade!

[ETWolverine]

Yes they are made up. For instance explain to me how he taxes your breathing.

Cap & Trade taxes carbon emissions. Carbon emissions include carbon emitted as carbon dioxide from human resparation. Energy companies are taxed for carbon levels in the air. They pass that tax on to the consumer. Consumers are therefore taxed for what carbon they emit when they breath, as well as what carbon they emit when they heat their homes and drive their cars. We are being taxed for breathing!!

The problem is that you haven't read the Cap & Trade bill. That's why you don't know about this stuff. But don't feel too bad. The members of Congress who voted for it didn't read it eather... they weren't given the time to do so. The bill is 1200 pages long, and they had less than a week to digest the information in it and the 300 pages of revisions that were handed in the night before the vote took place. So it isn't surprising that most people don't know about this stuff. But it IS a fact that we are now going to be taxed for our breathing, nonetheless.

Elliot

[speechlesstx]

What do private gun-owning citizens do to prevent crime? Is there a vigilante group I don't know about? My NRA husband nearly shot a neighbor who came to the door at 11 p.m. to borrow a couple of eggs, and, in a half-awake state, whipped out his pistol from under the mattress when I came to bed one night. (That pistol is no longer loaded and is now in a safe place.) Based on my literature review, gun owners/guns in the home cause far more injuries and death to non-criminals than to criminals.

Results after the first ten years of Texas' concealed carry law:

Texas Land Commissioner Jerry Patterson

When the Texas Concealed Handgun Law took effect in 1996, pundits and naysayers predicted anarchy. Any minute, there would surely be mass violence as armed Texas citizens began roving the streets settling arguments with gunfire. Certainly, several proclaimed, within a year there would be blood in the streets as Texas returned to the days of the Wild West.

Ten years later the facts paint a different picture. Texas under the Concealed Handgun Law isn’t the Wild West, but the Mild West. No recurrent shootouts at four-way stops, no blood in the streets. Quite the contrary, Texans are safer than before.

But why are we safer? Why did the fears of the naysayers fail to materialize?

One of the reasons I authored Senate Bill 60, the Concealed Handgun Law, was because I trust my fellow Texans. Contrary to opinions expressed on almost every editorial page across the state, I knew that when law-abiding Texans’ constitutional right to keep and bear arms was restored with the passage of S.B. 60, they would exercise good judgment and behave responsibly.

Ten years later, and the statistics continue to prove the point.

Since the passage of the Concealed Handgun Law, the FBI Uniform Crime Report shows an 18% drop in handgun murders, down from 838 in 1995 to 688 in 2004. And a 32% drop in handgun murders per 100,000 population, down from 4.5 murders per 100,000 Texans in 1995 to 3.08 per 100,000 in 2004.

If I find more recent stats I'll post them as well.

[NeedKarma]

Cap in Trade taxes carbon emissions.

That's not taxing your breathing.

[speechlesstx]

The fact that you are an armed society doesnt seem to prevent crime in your country. If guns make people so safe then why is the US ranked higher than the UK in murders per capita not to mention most if not all other crimes?

I dont agree with your argument.

It's made us safer in Texas.

PS. Here's the link I forgot on that previous post.

[ETWolverine]

That's not taxing your breathing.

If they are taxing carbon dioxide emissions, and carbon dioxide emissions come from your breathing, then they are taxing your breathing. Like it or not, that is a fact.

I know it would be easier to ignore that little fact. I know it would be more pleasant to forget that the single largest source of carbon dioxide is human resparation, not industry. But you can't ignore facts.

They are taxing carbon dioxide. You exhale carbon dioxide. Ergo, they are taxing your breathing.

Please, NK, explain to me how Cap & Trade is NOT taxing our breathing.

Elliot

[speechlesstx]

So you're saying that your god is ok with armed insurrections? Wow, that no different than militants islamists.

Think about it NK, what I did was differentiate between my spiritual beliefs and the reality of living in a secular society.

[450donn]

That's not taxing your breathing.

If you don't want to sit down and try and digest all 1200 plus pages of this piece of garbage, then do some research on line and see what experts are saying about it's effects on people/companies in the USA. Even the proponents are saying this piece of trash will take billions out of the economy of this country. This in a time of recession/depression that few alive have ever witnessed before. Raising taxes does not work. More government does not work.

[NeedKarma]

Please, NK, explain to me how Cap & Trade is NOT taxing our breathing.

How are they going to measure the carbon dioxide coming out of your body in order to tax you?

[Skell]

Here we go with the the "you guys" thing again. Which guys? The subject of this post was the silence among those that complained of Bush's tyranny now that Obama is vastly expanding the government's role. That he is doing so can't be denied and the silence among those Bush critics is deafening. That is the point of this thread I believe and what I addressed. I didn't make this about guns, but I'm not shy about defending our rights and the reasons behind them.

I agree that elections and the democratic process are the best and preferred remedy, but not the best 'guarantee.'

'You guys' who feel that guns are your best guarantee against the government. You referred to it. Not me!

[cozyk]

How are they going to measure the carbon dioxide coming out of your body in order to tax you?

NK, that's just a perfect example of how the "far righties" lose their credibility by exaggerating. They also seem to know how I feel about Obama , Worship? The Messiah?
They use all these "over the top" descriptions that don't apply to me at all.:cool: