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arcura · Jan 6, 2009, 11:17 PM

Wondergirl,
Very good question.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

De Maria · Jan 7, 2009, 07:32 AM

Originally Posted by Wondergirl

When did you make the cognitive choice to be heterosexual--at age 6, at age 12, at age 23?

That is a loaded question. People are born heterosexual according to God's plan. No conscious decision is involved in being heterosexual.

There is a cognitive choice in deciding to indulge in sex outside of marriage, whether that be heterosexual sex or some deviant variety, such as homosexual sex.

Wondergirl · Jan 7, 2009, 09:50 AM

Originally Posted by De Maria

That is a loaded question. People are born heterosexual according to God's plan. No conscious decision is involved in being heterosexual.

And there is no conscious decision to be homosexual. We are born hetero or homo, not according to God's plan for each of us specifically (because why would He make someone a hated homosexual?), but according to God's bigger plan called Human Sexuality. He set the plan in place, just like He set the rest of Nature's systems in place so that we have biology, geology, thermodynamics, meteorology, etc.

Could you, De Maria, choose to be (N.B.: BE) a homosexual, not for five minutes or a day or even a year, but to the point where you would no longer have any heterosexualness, any feelings for the opposite sex, that you would be attracted only to the same gender you are?

(Perhaps this is off-topic, but it does have to do with one's view of God and knowing if God loves him or not.)

De Maria · Jan 7, 2009, 11:49 AM

Originally Posted by Wondergirl

And there is no conscious decision to be homosexual. We are born hetero or homo, not according to God's plan for each of us specifically (because why would He make someone a hated homosexual?), ....

God didn't reveal that He had a different plan for each of us. He revealed that homosexual behaviour is an abomination and that we are to obey His requirements regardless of how we feel about them.

We have the same message in Scripture, Tradition and Magisterium.

Wondergirl · Jan 7, 2009, 12:19 PM

Originally Posted by De Maria

God didn't reveal that He had a different plan for each of us. He revealed that homosexual behaviour is an abomination and that we are to obey His requirements regardless of how we feel about them.

We have the same message in Scripture, Tradition and Magisterium.

Have you studied up on what was the reason for homosexual behavior mentioned in the OT and even the New?

***ADDED: This is not fair to this thread. I will start a new thread on this topic this evening.

arcura · Jan 7, 2009, 02:44 PM

De Maria,
I agree with you.
Fred

Maggie 3 · Jan 7, 2009, 03:50 PM

Every man is loved by God, it is the sin in man that God hates.
John 3:16 "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that
whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life." 17," For God did not send His Sun into the world to condem: but that the world through Him be saved."
17, "He who believes in Him is not condemn

; but he who does not believe is condemned
already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God."
This tells me that if you do not believe in God, it makes no difference if you sin, you have no hope or light to knowing the truth with out believing.
It sounds like the unforgivable sin of man. If there is no God, why care if you sin.
There is no argument, we all sin, but believers can be forgiven we have the light of God, Jesus, to show us the way the truth and the life thought the Holy Spirit.
Jesus came to save us not to judge us. We condemn our self with unbelieving.

John 5:24 "Most assuredly I say to you, he who hears My word and believe in Him
who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life."

Maggie 3

arcura · Jan 7, 2009, 06:41 PM

Maggie 3,
Very good.
Fred

inthebox · Jan 8, 2009, 05:45 PM

Originally Posted by Wondergirl

When did you make the cognitive choice to be heterosexual--at age 6, at age 12, at age 23?

We choose to believe if an act is a sin or not. That act may be lust [ hetero or homo ] or hate or theft or murder. It is all sin.

We chose, or ask for help, to avoid that which we believe is sin.

G&P

arcura · Jan 8, 2009, 07:34 PM

inthebox
Thanks for posting that.
But I can't see how homosexual posts are consistent with the subject of this thread.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

homesell · May 25, 2009, 10:50 PM

"When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever is left, no matter how improbable, must be true"
- Sherlock Holmes

It is irrational to believe life came from non-life, order came from entropy(disorder) accidentally, Laws of Physics came from random particles, something came from nothing, the intricate design in nature was without a designer, and /or feelings of love, hate, joy, sorrow, etc. are mere accidental chemical reactions in our body.
On the other hand, Knowing God is a subjective experience and no two people can have the same experience with God even though "Jesus is the same yesterday, today, and tomorrow."

arcura · May 25, 2009, 11:11 PM

Jeff,
Thanks for mentioning that.
It is amazing how many people think irrationally about the things you mentioned.
One on my friends is a self proclaimed free thinker who does a lot of irrational thinking alone those lines but is brilliant in many other ways.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

earl237 · Oct 11, 2009, 03:38 PM

Hello Cozyk,

I was wondering if you have read the book "The God Delusion" by Richard Dawkins. I think you would like it very much.

classyT · Oct 11, 2009, 07:01 PM

What would it matter if we COULD prove that God exists. There would still be a skeptic. The Bible says we should look around and know it.

According to the Bible it takes faith not proof anyway.

Hebrews 11:6

And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him.

arcura · Oct 11, 2009, 09:41 PM

ClassyT,
Yes you are right.
There will always be certain skeptics even when facing a mountain of evidence.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

paraclete · Oct 12, 2009, 01:02 AM

Originally Posted by cozyk

I've spent much of today reading post about the word "know" vs the word belief.
I've always thought the word "know" was thrown around too loosely. For example. I BELIEVE that my dog in the next room is still breathing. I would not KNOW it, unless I went to him and saw his chest rise, etc.

There are VERY FEW things in this world that we can say we know100% . If I said "I know my car is still in the garage" I'd feel pretty confident with that assumption. BUT, if I was ask to bet my child's life on that, I would very quickly reduce that KNOW to an "I BELIEVE my car is still in the garage.

Now, everyone seems to be getting this except Tom. He insist that he knows there is a god, there is proof of god and he has evidence to back it up. The only thing is, you haven't showed us your proof or evidence. I happen to believe there IS a god, but notice I said believe.

Please share your proof with me. Bible scripture does not do it because there is no proof that it is correct.

I both believe and know that God exists, but you are asking for proof and proof is an individual thing because I don't have the power to force God to manifest himself. What proof do you want? I can testify to answered prayer, to healing, to miracles of faith.

arcura · Oct 12, 2009, 01:43 PM

paraclete,
I agree with you.
Also I do accept the many proofs that there is a God including those that quantum science provides and the mathematical certainty that God exists.
That is that this universe's change of happening by accident is just one chance in 100,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,00 0,000,000,000.
With the universe estimated by science to be only 8,000,000,000 year old it is impossible to have happened by accident.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

paraclete · Oct 12, 2009, 02:40 PM

Originally Posted by arcura

paraclete,
I agree with you.
Also I do accept the many proofs that there is a God including those that quantum science provides and the mathematical certainty that God exists.
That is that this universe's change of happening by accident is just one chance in 100,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,00 0,000,000,000.
With the universe estimated by science to be only 8,000,000,000 year old it is impossible to have happened by accident.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

I don't follow the reasoning Fred and in any case science keeps pushing the age of the universe back it is now 13,500,000,000 years old. I accept God's explanation and I am not concerned about what science says, they have theories that they modify frequently, where as I have the certainty of what I know and experience.

arcura · Oct 12, 2009, 07:02 PM

paraclete.
Be that as it may, mathematically, it is impossible for the universe to come into existence by accident.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

rnrg · Oct 13, 2009, 01:02 PM

I believe that there was a person named George Washington, but I did not know him.

Yet, I BELIEVE in God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit. And, I KNOW them personally because I have a relationship with them. God - who is my Father, Jesus - who personally died for me, and the Holy Spirit which guides me and speaks to my heart and brings conviction to my soul.

And, you cannot know someone unless you spend time with them. Many people believe that there is a God, but only those that have accepted what He has done can KNOW Him.