[talaniman]

The claim that a military option is ruled out is bogus.

[paraclete]

Tom reaching an agreement is not a failure, you have had to concede that Iran can have a nuclear power industry

[tomder55]

Iran has violated more than 20 international agreements and Security Council Resolutions and is the leading state sponsor of terrorism.
How can we trust them with a nuclear deal that prevents anytime, anywhere inspections? Tal is big on 'trust but verify ' .There is no adequate verification program in this deal . That is a deal breaker even if you think it's a good idea.

[talaniman]

There is no adequate verification program in this deal . That is a deal breaker even if you think it's a good idea.

That's not what the science says Tom, just what the non science guys like you say.

[paraclete]

Speaking of non deals I notice you haven't got a deal with the TPP either, Once again your dog in the manger attitude of protectionism falls short as you back off things that had been previously agreed. Election year in the boondocks must be close. Free trade really is a non event where the US is concerned. Fact is we don't want you in our markets either

[talaniman]

Yes you do, even if you personally don't. LOL, foolish to think you can balance your book on Chinese, Asian, or European financial adjustments alone.

Yes it is an election year in the US.

[paraclete]

Ah yes but it is so easy, indonesia didn't want 500,000 to 1,000,000 cattle but China did, Balance achieved, India just loves uranium and Europe, well I'm sure you would like to get their cars out of our market

[tomder55]

That's not what the science says Tom, just what the non science guys like you say.

how can you say that when some sites are not even open to inspection ?

[talaniman]

After the deal is signed sealed and delivered, there will be a process to gain access to previously blocked sites. That's the whole point of the deal, gaining access to suspected sites.

[tomder55]

After the deal is signed sealed and delivered, there will be a process to gain access to previously blocked sites. That's the whole point of the deal, gaining access to suspected sites.

rubbish ,the emperor knew the Iranians made side deals with the IAEA about the scope of the inspections they would permit . Neither he or Kerry know what sites will be inspected ,when or how .

The agreements were uncovered, completely by chance, by two members of Congress — Rep. Mike Pompeo (R-Kan.) and Sen. Tom Cotton (R-Ark.) — who were in Vienna meeting with the U.N.-releated agency.
In an interview, Pompeo told me that he and Cotton were meeting with the deputy director of the IAEA and the agency's two top Iran negotiators just days after the nuclear accord was announced, when they asked how the agency will carry out verification at the Iranian military complex at Parchin. IAEA officials told them, quite casually, that the details were all covered in agreements negotiated between the IAEA and the Iranian government. It was the first they had heard of the side deals.
Pompeo says they asked whether they could see those agreements. He says IAEA officials replied, " 'Oh no, of course not, no, you're not going to get to see those.' And so everybody on our side of the table asked, 'Has Secretary Kerry seen these?' 'No, Secretary Kerry hasn't seen them. No American is ever going to get to see them.' "
It turns out that only the two parties — the IAEA and Iran — get to see the actual agreements (though you can see a picture of Iranian and IAEA officials holding up what appear to be the secret accords here).

In other words, Obama is gambling our national security and handing over $150 billion in sanctions relief to Iran, based on secret agreements negotiated between the IAEA and Iran that no U.S. official has seen.

There are 2 secret side deals on top of the Iran nuclear agreement - Business Insider

We were suckered by the emperor and Pelosi when she told us Obamacare would have to be passed for us to find out what's in it . Now we are told that Iran and the IAEA made a secret agreement behind the back of the P-5 +1 and we should be ok with it because the 12ers are so trustworthy . The emperor will get away with it again because he's the HL Mencken of modern American politics. [SIZE=2]“No one ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American public.”[/SIZE]

[paraclete]

the intelligence of the American public

What exactly is the intelligence rating of the american public? How do you rate the IQ of a nation, scientific method suggests you should ask some questions like where is Tuvalu? or even Timbuktu? What is the highest ambient temperature ever recorded? And average the answers and of course you would come up with zero

[talaniman]

https://www.iaea.org/sites/default/f...une_2015_1.pdf

I find it both hilarious and SAD congressmen can be so ignorant of a process that encompasses 53 nation states and decades of agreements just like the one with Iran that was just signed. It's been in the works for quite a while Tom, but of course no republican cared to read up on it before they started hollering about it.

https://www.iaea.org/newscenter/pres...rk-cooperation

So your so called "side deal" is standard policy for every nation, and mandatory for any signatory of a Non Proliferation Treaty (NPT).

[paraclete]

Tal Tom wouldn't know that, it wasn't a law passed by his congress of ningnongs

[tomder55]

so tal ,you are not denying that the side deal they made excludes inspection of Parchin and other military sites that we know they have used for nuclear and ballistic missile R&D . I rest my case .
The Iranians made it clear before and after the talks concluded that they would never permit inspection of their military sites . You can be happy with this capitulation but I am not .

[talaniman]

Tom, what part of MANDATORY are you not getting here? Your characterization of Iran becoming a signatory to a NPT as a side deal hold no water.

Here's the list of other countries who agreed to the "side deal" with the IAEA.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...uclear_Weapons

And another FACT we don't see coming from you "bad deal" guys,

Iran's foreign minister calls for world's nuclear weapons states to disarm | World news | The Guardian

Patricia Lewis, the research director for international security at the Chatham House thinktank, said: “Most interesting to me is that Zarif is strongly linking the nuclear deal in Vienna to the WMD-free zone. Iran used to be a thought leader in this process – a role it absconded from in recent years. It looks as if once again it may be prepared to take this on as a major issue. The fascinating thing to watch will be how Israel will respond, a country that won’t even reveal its nuclear weapons capability and remains outside the NPT.”

Maybe stop hollering and calling names, and let go of those knee jerk talking points would yield a greater understanding of complex moving parts.

[paraclete]

Tom, how much inspection of US military sites is there, perhaps we can have some facts in that

[tomder55]

Tom, how much inspection of US military sites is there, perhaps we can have some facts in that

Russians Inspect Montana Nuclear Launch Facilities | Military.com

Tal ,Even when there are inspections there will be no US IAEA inspectors allowed. The emperor got hosed . You should stop defending a soddy deal that puts the world in greater danger .

[paraclete]

Tom I cannot see why you keep saying it puts the world in greater danger when various facilities in Iran are dismantled or modified. If there was/is a danger, then the danger is no greater and should be lessened. You are belly aching about not allowing your spies into their facilities but maybe it takes time to build up trust in the process. As far as Russia and the US are concerned how long did it take to reach this degree of cooperation and how long will it last?

[tomder55]

Thankfully the opposition to this deal is bipartisan. Yukiya Amano, the director general of the IAEA, until Friday was refusing to brief senators on exactly how the UN nuclear weapons watchdog would monitor Iran's nuclear activities. Now Amano,will testify to the Senate Foreign Relations Committee Wednesday due to pressure from opposition Dems .Kudos to ranking Foreign Relations member , Maryland liberal Dem Ben Cardin who has taken the lead on this issue. It was insane to put all the verification for this agreement on the IAEA without them giving Congress the details of their inspection plans. Like it or not ,secret agreements between Iran and the IAEA is not the way to 'trust and verify 'compliance as JF Kerry and Secretary of Energy Ernest Moniz would have us believe . You know it and I know it . Given the IAEA past history with verification of Iraqi WMD ,and it's failure to inspect Parchin even though we know Iran has been doing secret nuclear testing there ;it is not wise to hand off all compliance inspections to the UN agency .

[paraclete]

I don't get why the IAEA should have to molycoddle your Senate. The IAEA is not there for you to nitpick. They are an experienced organisation who know what they are doing. We don't want another IRAQ where inspectors were saying WMD and they couldn't be found