[Tj3]

needinfo08.
You are right again.

Hey Fred. You surprise me again. I did not think that you would be supporting the view that the Apostle Paul was a heretic!

[Tj3]

I didn't realize we were going to play a semantics game.

The context of any passage is important.

Can you show me where scripture says that Jesus sacrifice on the cross ONLY pays for past sins?

Read 1 John 1:9

[arcura]

Enough is enough!!

[Tj3]

You are missing the concept. I will repeat an example I gave before.

I am not after your examples. I take my doctrine from scripture. Show me where scripture says that the sacrifice on the cross ONLY pays the price for our past sins.

[arcura]

Enough is enough,
That's the subject of this thread.

[arcura]

Paul was not a heretic.
But you believe in some heretic theologies as I have pointed out many times on other boards.

[Tj3]

Enough is enough,
That's the subject of this thread.

Hey Fred - did you just catch on to the topic after 85 posts?

[Tj3]

Paul was not a heretic.

Agreed. Why then did you agree with the posts by a person who is promoting exactly that?

But you believe in some heretic theologies as I have pointed out many times on other boards.

You make these claims, as personal attacks, but of course you have yet to actually find anything that I have said which is heretical. Hateful personal comments like that say more about you than me, Fred.

I invite anyone to check the links at the bottom of each of my posts.

[arcura]

Tj3,
Wrong again.
It is not a personal attack.
It is pointing out the truth about what you believe.
And I have discussed that with you several times, but you tend to ignore what the bible says about several things such as Mary is the Mother of God the Son, baptism is needed for salvation, there will be no rapture as the Last Days book try to teach, and that the Eucharist is indeed the body and blood of Jesus Christ.
I believe what the bible teaches about those. You apparently do not.

[Tj3]

Tj3,
Wrong again.
It is not a personal attack.
It is pointing out the truth about what you believe.

Hey Fred - don't just post abusive remarks - find something from myself website, my posts, whatever I have said, and post it here if yolu really believe what you saying.

Otherwise you are just being abusive.

And I have discussed that with you several times, but you tend to ignore what the bible says about several things such as Mary is the Mother of God the Son,

Mary is the mother of Jesus, but God pre-existed Mary and has no mother.

That is orthodox Christian teaching, Fred. To suggest that God had a human mother means that God (the trinity) had a beginning and started life as a human. That is Mormonism, not Christianity.

God entered the word manifest in the flesh, through Mary as the human vessel, as scripture says in 1 Tim 3:16.

http://www.geocities.com/smithtj.geo...therofgod.html

baptism is needed for salvation

Really? Prove that from scripture.

You can trust in water. I trust in the blood that Jesus shed on the cross.

there will be no rapture

This is not an essential one way or the other, but scripture does teach that there is a rapture. I do not see that this is a matter to divide over though.

as the Last Days book try to teach,

What book is that Fred? I never heard of a "Last Days" book.

and that the Eucharist is indeed the body and blood of Jesus Christ.

http://www.geocities.com/smithtj.geo...m/baptism.html

I believe what the bible teaches about those. You apparently do not.

Quite the contrary. I would be willing to discuss ANY of these with you strictly from the Bible, but you refuse each time.

Now, what is interesting is when you promoted the belief that men become gods and defended the Mormon teaching. Now that is heresy!

[adam7gur]

Tj3
If you think there is something wrong about Fred and you find it difficult to communicate with him , pleas do as the Scripture says...
Titus 3:10 A man that is a heretic after the first and second admonition reject;
If in your opinion Fred is heretic then please do as Paul says.
If Fred is wrong about something you are not helping him that way!

[adam7gur]

Fred
You are a wise man!
Don't bite the hook.
1 Peter 2:23 Who, when he was reviled, reviled not again; when he suffered, he threatened not; but committed himself to him that judgeth righteously

[Tj3]

Tj3
If you think there is something wrong about Fred and you find it difficult to communicate with him , pleas do as the Scripture says ...
Titus 3:10 A man that is a heretic after the first and second admonition reject;
If in your opinion Fred is heretic then please do as Paul says.
If Fred is wrong about something you are not helping him that way!

Adam,

Perhaps you did not notice who called who a heretic, and you don't know the history here.

I have no issues with Fred. Fred has spent a large part of his life following me around internet harassing me with messages like you see here. I keep offering to take this off line to discuss whatever makes him so bitter, but he won't - he just carries on. So as long as he does so, I will continue to refute his false teachings and support what he says where he speaks the truth.

To be quite honest, I care about and am concerned about Fred. I do hope and pray that I will meet him as a brother in Christ in eternity, and have told him that I will never close the door on him, in the hope that he can someday put aside the bitterness. If you want to help, encourage Fred to bury the hatchet somewhere other than my head so that we can discuss whatever it is that makes him exhibit such bitterness toward me and others who disagree with him.

Tom

[adam7gur]

Hey Fred. You surprise me again. I did not think that you would be supporting the view that the Apostle Paul was a heretic!

Tom
That is the only reason why I suggested what I suggested.
If you think that someone finds Paul a heretic then probably you find that someone also a heretic.
If I am mistaken here , I apologize!

[Tj3]

Tom
That is the only reason why I suggested what I suggested.
If you think that someone finds Paul a heretic then probably you find that someone also a heretic.
If I am mistaken here , I apologize!

Adam,

My focus is not to declare people heretics. I would very rarely make such a statement. I declare doctrines to be heresy, as I did here. If I was intending on declaring Fred a heretic, why would I have said that I was surprised that he was supporting the doctrine that Paul was a heretic? My focus is to see people come to an understanding of the gospel.

Does Fred believe heretical doctrines? Yes, we have discussed those before. But why is it necessary to get into labeling if there is no benefit? Fred has been extremely bitter with me for many years now, but I hold to my view that the door will never close on him. Whenever he wants to walk through, I am waiting and would be pleased to welcome him. Personally, I like to see Fred bury the hatchet, dispense with the bitterness, and agree to take it off line and be willing to have a honest respectful discussion.

But in any case, this is not the proper place to discuss this. As I said, if you want to help, then the best way is to get Fred to drop the attitude and agree to take it off line. In any case, I don't think that airing it here is beneficial, nor is it on topic. If you don't like what I am saying, then I think you know the Biblical approach to deal with that.

Tom

[arcura]

HeyTom Smith Tj3,
Why is it that when you try to tell me abiut my beliefs that you don't agree with that it is Ok, but when I do the same for you you call it a personal attack.
That is why I should ignore you and from now on I think I will.
Goodbye Tom
Fred

[Tj3]

HeyTom Smith Tj3,
Why is it that when you try to tell me abiut my beliefs that you don't agree with that it is Ok, but when I do the same for you you call it a personal attack.

Because, Fred, when I disagree with your beliefs, I do so respectful and go to scripture to see what it says. I don't make it personal. I do not call you names. I do not go around just posting messages attacking you by name. When I disagree with you, I give a reason, I provide scripture, and am always willing to discuss it respectfully, and have encouraged you to do so likewise. I also do not state that your beliefs are wrong without explaining what I am talking about. Lastly, I do not call orthodox Bible based Christian theology "heresy".

Those are the areas in which our approaches differ.

That is why I should ignore you and from now on I think I will.
Goodbye Tom
Fred

Fred, if I had a dime for every time that you have said that, I could retire! Let's see how long that lasts this time.

Don't forget, the door never closes, Fred. As I said to Adam, and as I have told you hundreds of times over the years - anytime you want to put aside the bitterness, the door is open and I will be here to welcome you. Take me up on it!

[sndbay]

John 6:28-29
28 Then they asked him, "What must we do to do the works God requires ?"
29 Jesus answered, "The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent."
NIV

This scripture was a very good refer to consider a requirement. And the verses go on to confirm the Bread of Life/Flesh/ The Word is what we follow in our requirement. Mamma was the bread of life within the spiritual realm given. On earth today, Christ/The Word is what was given and we are to eat. All that is written is the requirement, and we must consider the Bread as important as the Blood. One without the other is not acceptable.

John 6:30-38 They said therefore unto him, What sign shewest thou then, that we may see, and believe thee? what dost thou work? Our fathers did eat manna in the desert; as it is written, He gave them bread from heaven to eat. Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Moses gave you not that bread from heaven; but my Father giveth you the true bread from heaven. For the bread of God is he which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life unto the world.Then said they unto him, Lord, evermore give us this bread. And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.But I said unto you, That ye also have seen me, and believe not. All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out. For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.

Rom 13:8-10
8 Let no debt remain outstanding, except the continuing debt to love one another, for he who loves his fellowman has fulfilled the law. 9 The commandments, "Do not commit adultery," "Do not murder," "Do not steal," "Do not covet," and whatever other commandment there may be, are summed up in this one rule: "Love your neighbor as yourself." 10 Love does no harm to its neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.
NIV

Another great refer, and look deeper at what LOVE brings to our hearts. The unwillingness to do any unclean act... When we love those around us, we would not try to hurt them. And when we Love God we desire not to go against what "His Will" is for us. Sure we still fail each and everyday, but what is within the heart of love is what matters. Our Father knows each of us, and the price was paid. God decides whether your heart holds the Love/Faith that is of His Will. Walking in Christ is not an easy, staying in His Light and giving up what is a short life here on earth is not easy. But Love for the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit brings great reward within the heart, mind, and soul. Repent and pray the prayer Christ taught us. Realize the words of that prayer begins each day with love, and given hope to doing all that is Our Father's Will.

John 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

2 Cr 6:16-17 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? For ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you, And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.

1 Corinthians 6:19-20 What? Know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own? For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.

[revdrgade]

[QUOTE . Walking in Christ is not an easy, staying in His Light and giving up what is a short life here on earth is not easy. But Love for the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit brings great reward within the heart, mind, and soul. Repent and pray the prayer Christ taught us. Realize the words of that prayer begins each day with love, and given hope to doing all that is Our Father's Will. QUOTE]


Amen!

[arcura]

sndbay,
Yes,
Amen to that.
Fred