[excon]

Hello again, Steve:

Come on. You're going to make me pull teeth? I don't know why. Look. You think, the mosque is TOO close to ground zero. How far is NOT too close?

Yes, I'm going to call THE area that you're going to tell me is TOO CLOSE, a Muslim free zone. You're free to choose some other politically correct phrase, but it IS, what it IS.

excon

[Synnen]

So...and that ammounts to everyone elses opinions too, including your own.

Any Proof YOU are any smarter than Bush? I haven't seen evidence...

Is this the pot and the kettle?

And Proof the the REAL Dumbo...Obama...or more Correctly Dumbo Ears...has actually graduated much less got more than a minimally passing grade? No, you can't prove it because he is hiding it...the only reason for him to sopend millions in legal fees to hide something is if he is afraid someone will see it...because they are even WORSE than John Kerrys grades...who we all know had LOWER grades than Bush had.

FERPA law protects student records. There is absolutely NO reason why you have to see his transcripts. None. Or would you like to set the precendence that any "public interest" person's personal documents are no longer protected? And by "public interest", I would want to know the grades of every single person in the US Military, every Judge, every City Council member, every police officer, every sewer digger--anyone that works for the public, essentially. If they're not smart enough (read that as "got good grades", we shouldn't pay them with taxpayer money, according to your argument.

I know PLENTY of people who are intelligent that did not get good grades in college--myself included. You have no idea what may or may not contribute to someone's bad grades, either. In my case, it was working too many hours to effectively study, along with pretty much starving because I wasn't poor enough to get food stamps. Add to that a case of depression and several years of counseling to get over my daughter's adoption, and you have 6 quarters of straight F's and a college dismissal. That has NOTHING to do with my intelligence.

And some of the smartest people I know don't have a college degree.

I haven't seen any evidence YOU are able to string two words together and come up with anything that can be proven with actual evidence.

Again with the pot and kettle.

Rather than appologize for every damn time Obama puts his fat foot in his big mouth (and it has happened a LOT)....call it like it is. The man is a OAF.... Smart people don't repeatedly say stupid stuff like that. Or is Obama really as stupid as you like to like to think Bush was.

Please show me an intelligent president in the last 40 years that wrote his own speeches and had thoughts in his head that weren't part of the party agenda.

Another thing....smart guys can remember speaches....particularly smart Lawyers....teleprompters aren't allowed in the courtrooms.

I can't remember a speech to save my life. I really can't. If I don't have note cards, I cannot make it through a speech for longer than 2 minutes.

I guess I'm just not very smart.

[Synnen]

Only the Muslims are entitled to freedom of religion.....the people defending Islam have spent the last 40 years fighting against anything Christian that might be seen in public.

No--the people who are NOT CHRISTIAN (which means they support the Muslims because they're in the same boat) have spent the last 50 years trying to reach a separation of church and state.

You can display any damned thing you want on your own front yard (which is in public). But damned if I want a Christian display ONLY at the courthouse or City Hall.

If you represent ONE religion, you have to represent them ALL---and the only time Christians get p!ssy about it is at Christmas, when all the REST of us have major holidays too.

Same with prayer in school--I don't care if Christians pray SILENTLY to themselves in school. But if a Christian prayer (or Muslim prayer, for that matter, or Jewish, or whatever you want) is said OUT LOUD, with the SANCTION of the school, then EVERY religion needs to be represented.

We aren't fighting to get rid of Christianity, you know. We're fighting to get Christians to recognize that they're not the national religion.

[Synnen]

It doesn't matter which one it is, it's not sacrosanct if it's a conservative trying to exercise the right. I've been arguing this very point here, at Huffpo and my newspaper for weeks and they just gloss right over it. I don't think some of them even realize the freedom of religion they're defending is in the same amendment that guarantees my right to object.

And I've said over and over that you have EVERY right to object. Object away!

What I've said is that I think you're WRONG to object--which is ALSO within MY freedom of opinion.

What the point is, though, is that regardless how many Americans object--it's still probably going to be built, because NO laws are being broken in the building of it.

[Synnen]

I wonder if everyone's opinion of this issue would've been the same if this was proposed within a year of the actually attack on our country.
Somehow I kinda doubt it.

Mine would be.

[NeedKarma]

I'm just worried now about what the real haters will do to the mosque after being riled by the conservative media. :(

[excon]

What the point is, though, is that regardless how many Americans object--it's still probably going to be built, because NO laws are being broken in the building of it.

Hello again, Synn:

This brings me back to my other question of the opposition... They SAY they support the RIGHT of this citizen to build. Consequently, their objections are nothing more than opinion, as you point out...

UNLESS, that is, they'd REALLY like some government agency to STOP it somehow. Tom mentioned some local bureaucrat who had a plan to take the mosque via eminent domain. Tom didn't object. In fact, he kind of LIKED it.

So, my question for the Constitution loving conservatives here, is this: IF the local zoning board changed their position, and ruled against the mosque, would you support the GOVERNMENT, or the victims of religious repression?

Since that question still lingers, my confusion about their STAUNCH support for the First Amendment, does too.

excon

[Synnen]

Because News flash.....Obama ISN'T the Messiah......and Mohammed was nothing more than a Murderer and a child molestor....all of which history proves. Some people chose to whorsip a pedophile....you don't prcreate with a prepubescent girl. Much less call her a wife.

When did you convert to worshiping the moon god?

We all know the Left HATES christians....everything the left has done has been anti Christian. IN fact...when was the last time the left has defended Christianity?

In case you didn't know....Islam isn't a big fan of abortion, or womens rights....or even civil rights.

Thats in line with the Lefts goal of socialism....but it flys in the face of everything else they have been ranting over for more years than I can remember.

I'm really an Independent, Smoothy. I'm not Left OR Right--because I think they're BOTH too extreme.

But... to answer the points in your post above---YOUR Messiah was descended from people who thought incest was okay (Lot and his daughters), who had multiple wives (Abraham and Jacob come immediately to mind), who held slaves, who were willing to cast a woman and child into the desert because the first wife was jealous (Sarah casting out Hagar and Ishmael), who have revered people like the misogynist St. Paul, who punished people for adultery by stoning them to death, who sent men into battle to die so that they could get their wives (David sent Uriah to die so that he could have Bathsheba)---and you want me to take seriously that someone ELSE'S gods/messiahs might not be good people? Okey-dokey, then.

I converted to the moon GODDESS when I was 18--so nearly half my life ago.

Christians aren't exactly big fans of abortion or women's rights either. Zero points for you for bringing that up. And 60 years ago, the MAJORITY of Christians weren't exactly standing up and saying "Hey! It's wrong that we treat blacks as lesser people! Let's invite them to our churches, schools, and neighborhoods". Again--some of that has changed, but you're not convincing me that Christianity is better than Islam with THAT argument.

I don't support Islam any more or any less than I support Christianity. I'm frankly JUST as outraged that they won't let the Greek Orthodox Church destroyed on 9/11 rebuild as I am that people think that the mosque shouldn't be built. Build them BOTH, in my opinion.

[tomder55]

I'm just worried now about what the real haters will do to the mosque after being riled by the conservative media. :(

Has there been any incident with the mosque 4 blocks away ? I think it's speculation like yours that puts thoughts like that in the minds of "real haters".

[speechlesstx]

I'm just worried now about what the real haters will do to the mosque after being riled by the conservative media. :(

I already asked once, should we follow the example of those who stole the Mojave desert cross after it was ruled constitutional? Or the union thugs that reacted to tea parties with violence?

I think it's interesting that the very people who not only mock and protest Christianity in this country but spent 8 years wringing their hands over the prospect of a Bush theocracy, are wholeheartedly defending this mosque and their effort to spread Islam, the religion behind 9/11.

[speechlesstx]

Come on. You're gonna make me pull teeth??

Yes.

[speechlesstx]

And I've said over and over that you have EVERY right to object. Object away!

Then can we say we're both on the same page on that count?

What I've said is that I think you're WRONG to object--which is ALSO within MY freedom of opinion.

And I think you're wrong to think I'm wrong, so there.

What the point is, though, is that regardless how many Americans object--it's still probably going to be built, because NO laws are being broken in the building of it.

I've said it many times on various forums that they have the right and already have the green light, so that's another are of agreement. I'm sure it will be built, but I won't guarantee it will be built there. The public has the right to pressure them otherwise - as has happened with countless projects all across this country - and that's what's happening here. We're all just exercising our rights.

[tomder55]

Hello again, Synn:

This brings me back to my other question of the opposition... They SAY they support the RIGHT of this citizen to build. Consequently, their objections are nothing more than opinion, as you point out....

UNLESS, that is, they'd REALLY like some government agency to STOP it somehow. Tom mentioned some local bureaucrat who had a plan to take the mosque via eminent domain. Tom didn't object. In fact, he kinda LIKED it.
So, my question for the Constitution loving conservatives here, is this: IF the local zoning board changed their position, and ruled against the mosque, would you support the GOVERNMENT, or the victims of religious repression?

Since that question still lingers, my confusion about their STAUNCH support for the First Amendment, does too.

excon

You are correct that I voiced no opinion about it . But you are wrong to assume that means I support his idea . Given the position I've already taken on issues of imminent domain I would think you know I oppose it. Now I've made it clear I hope.

As to your question about how far away ;well there is one that is 4 blocks away that no one is paying any attention to at all. But maybe that is because it wasn't built as a victory mosque with a name referring to political Islamic conquest.

By the way ;the politician I mentioned is a primary candidate for Governor and I don't support him over his opponent.

[excon]

Hello again, tom:

I got it about eminent domain. You STILL dodged the question. IF the ZONING board reversed it's decision in light of the overwhelming opposition to the mosque, WHO'S side will you support?

Perhaps you're evading, because even YOU don't like your own answer?

excon

[tomder55]

I would support the zoning board of course. I think the opposition is a legitimate form of political expression just like I think boycotts and demonstrations against enterprises and individuals also exercising their Constitutional rights are legitimate .

[Synnen]

Oh goodness.

Speechlesstx and I agreed on something.

[speechlesstx]

Oh goodness.

Speechlesstx and I agreed on something.

Think back, it's certainly not the first time.

[Synnen]

Think back, it's certainly not the first time.

Oh I know---it's just usually rare :D

[excon]

I would support the zoning board of course. I think the opposition is a legitimate form of political expression

Hello again, tom:

I agree. Opposition IS a legitimate form of protest and political expression. It's reserved for YOU to do, a citizen. It's YOUR right.

Government, on the other hand, must obey the law. You, yourself SAID, the First Amendment IS the law. You, yourself, SAID he has the RIGHT to build. You, yourself SAID that you staunchly SUPPORT the Constitution...

But, as soon as a local zoning board denies a citizen a Constitutional RIGHT, that you SAY he HAS, you CAVE and immediately jump BEHIND the government in OPPOSING the citizen seeking his Constitutional rights.

The above is overwhelming evidence that you, INDEED, do NOT support his right to build, and do NOT support the First Amendment, no matter how many times you say it...

excon

[speechlesstx]

Oh I know---it's just usually rare :D

Ok, now that may be so. Oops, we agreed again. :D