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Delilah P · May 20, 2007, 12:21 AM

I don't like seeing people give up on one another, yet I can certainly understand when it feels so one-sided that you become so depressed. I remember a relationship years ago (not married) when I had tried hard to keep it together to no avail. Essentially, the other half (fiance) waited pretty much for me to get tired of trying and then we drifted apart. Perhaps this is what your wife is trying to have happen. Being blasé about your relationship and just letting you wear yourself down and give up. Sometimes the differences in a relationship are just too much for one to handle. As you had mentioned, perhaps she'll see what she is missing when you stop trying to appease her. Focusing on the children only right now is a good idea. I still can't get past why SHE has the kids all of the time and not you? Are you both having equal time with them, or are they with her more of the time? I also wish, for the sake of having her want to really miss you, that she didn't have a constant support group with her at all times. You sound so level-headed and have your priorities in order.. it's a shame that she is putting you through this. Keep up your counseling just to keep your wits about you, if for no other reason. You had told your wife about counseling a few times.. she said she would go with you.. now it's up to her to keep her word. If she doesn't, familyman2, then don't push. You don't want to always be the one who has to coerce her into a good marriage.. to understand you.. to be a good wife. It takes two.. no doubt about it. You deserve your happiness.. you are still young. Life is too short to have to struggle like this with a person who doesn't have her heart in it. I pray she comes to her senses very soon and realize what a loving husband she has in you. As always, best wishes, familyman2. Please continue to post her so we see how things are going for you.. and to give you some support, too!

talaniman · May 20, 2007, 04:56 AM

I'm glad you see the logic of my post. You are connected to her through your children for years, and must be civil enough to raise them with as much love and stability as possible. Not only can you stop the dog and pony show, you can get your own house in order, with out her screwing the finances up. Keep us posted as I feel you will land on your feet, and find the happiness your looking for.

familyman2 · May 20, 2007, 10:36 AM

Thank you Delilah. Your constant support has been priceless to me throughout this difficult period. And just so you know, I don't plan on giving up. I am changing my strategy. I will leave it up to her to figure out what she is walking away from. In the meantime, like Taliniman recommended, I will focus on myself and my kids, who deserve all the love I can give them. Incidentally, we share the custody of the kids. It's 50/50. This is one thing we do agree on.

talaniman · May 20, 2007, 11:45 AM

I am so glad you understand that a change in strategy is not giving up.

Delilah P · May 20, 2007, 10:46 PM

Thank you for the 'thanks', familyman2. It warms my heart to have someone thank me for my support. :o I'm hoping that your wife will sit and think one day soon, "Hmmm, I wonder what he's up to .. why hasn't he called or sent a note?" Her friends are keeping her mind occupied now and she doesn't have time to think about what she is missing. She may feel that she knows you so well that she thinks you'll always be there, waiting for her to return. Your stategy of holding back is a good one. I'm hoping that you have a group of friends you can lean on, too. You have all of us here, too, for support. ;)

familyman2 · May 21, 2007, 11:16 AM

Well sometimes the unexpected happens: I had asked my wife to look at a school I want to get my daughter into. Before I could even start on the information she began talking about things on her mind. She talked about all my problems naturally. How I would get angry and then turn cold (untrue), how I didn't leave the house instead of her (we all know why), how I would do nice things for her just to make her happy instead of doing them because I wanted to (?) etc... I mean lots of ranting. I just bit my lip and said "I'm sorry you feel that way". Then I said it takes two and that she has done many unfair things as well. But to me they aren't as important as the big picture. I said we all make mistakes and that you have to cut people some slack for being human. I also told her that we still can have a great marriage with many good years. She would need to come to counseling immediately so we can work through these issues, and learn to communicate better. She has agreed to come.

talaniman · May 21, 2007, 11:20 AM

Small steps, can mean big changes.

Delilah P · May 21, 2007, 03:14 PM

This is great news, familyman2! It's a start and hopefully it will escalate to the point of bringing you two back together! I'm glad you stayed calm and that you gave the PERFECT response. I truly hope she sees the counselor with you. Is Friday the next appointment? This is great news and I'm keeping positive thoughts for you. Keep us posted, as you have been.

familyman2 · May 21, 2007, 06:08 PM

Thanks y'all. I am going to remain cautiously optimistic. Our appt. isn't until a week from this coming Friday. She'll be away this Friday. I will still go, however. I'm just wondering in the interim if I should hang back and leave her alone, or should I give her a "what's up" call now and then, or send her a card or something meaningful. What would a woman really appreciate in this situation?

talaniman · May 21, 2007, 08:37 PM

Give her a single rose, and take the kids for the weekend. Have big fun and they'll tell mom what a great time they had. Females love happy kids. Ask me how I know! ( you'll love yourself for it too. Tell me a fun distraction wouldn't be good right now)

Delilah P · May 21, 2007, 10:00 PM

Tal's advice is good. A single rose (yellow is for friendship) is a great idea.. maybe with a nice, light-hearted card attached. Don't forget this is Memorial Day weekend coming up.. so taking the kids would mean a long weekend with them. Is your wife going away for the long weekend with friends? Call her one day next week with a reminder of the counselor appointment. I think you'll get a good idea about how serious she is about a reconciliation immediately after the counseling session with her. Always best wishes.. and keep us posted, as you have been, familyman2.

familyman2 · May 28, 2007, 07:34 AM

Hi all. Just checking in with a little question/concern. All is set for our counseling session on Friday, and we have been getting along fine during the brief moments we see each other (trading the kids). But, something has been bothering me a bit: my daughter inadvertently said, "mommy's friend Jeff comes over to the house alot". I've asked my wife about this guy over a year ago and she said he was just a friend from her bowling league, and that he was married. Recently, I asked her again about being involved with anyone and she completely denied it. This was when I decided to save our marriage. So now she knows I am "all in" about reconciliation, and she IS coming to counseling, which brings me to ask:
Should I bring this issue up with my wife before, during, or after counseling? Should I pay this no mind and believe her platonic relationship with this guy? I'm trying to figure out how to handle this, what my mindset should be, and what I should say (if anything) to my wife.

I know we all have known about this guy, and I have previously felt no threat by him. But, how is she supposed to think about our marriage when she has this guy filling the gap?

talaniman · May 28, 2007, 08:36 AM

You cannot let assumptions take over your thinking, nor let them cloud your judgement. Stay focused on the counseling, and your relationship with your children. The rest you have to take with a grain of salt and just wait and see what the true facts are that will come to light. Don't get worked up over every little thing you hear.

YeloDasy · May 28, 2007, 10:05 AM

I think you should bring it up in counseling! Not about Jeff, or anyone specific... but you can say your daughter has made comments about male friends and want to clear the slate and hear it from her, since you want to have open communication from her and not hear things through the kids. You want her to be honest about anyone she is or has been seeing. Counselors are trained!! And if the counselor feels there is dishonesty, they should be confronting that... so let the counselor do the work for now... you just keep being honest. If you do not bring it up, it is called having a "hidden agenda" and it will keep your relationship unhealthy and dishonest. Lingering thoughts are not healthy, they need to be squashed and move on.

familyman2 · May 28, 2007, 05:36 PM

Great! Thank you both for keep ing me focused. It's what I needed.

Delilah P · May 28, 2007, 09:00 PM

I agree with YeloDasy... I would bring up.. nonchalantly.. in counseling, that your daughter has mentioned that another man has been visiting 'mommy' frequently. I would say you were bringing it up during counseling because obviously your daughter has been noticing it enough to tell you and you're wondering if this will signal to the child that there is more a problem between 'mom and dad. (Your daughter already knows there is at least one problem since you're living apart). And, since you are working towards a reconciliation, you'd like to know if someone else is in the picture. YeloDasy is right.. there shouldn't be any hidden agendas, especially when you are both going for marriage counseling. Important information should be out in the open so that the counselor can help you both. If you don't bring it up, it will be nagging at you. True, you can take some things with a 'grain of salt', but with something like this.. and especially since your child noticed enough to mention it... I would bring it up. Your counselor is there to help decipher such things for you and your wife. Good luck, familyman2.

antymay · May 28, 2007, 09:45 PM

She's screwing somebody else and afraid to admit that to you. Start cutting your losses.

talaniman · May 29, 2007, 04:31 AM

Just to be clear, wait until she is actually in counseling before even considering anything else. The focus stays on the kids.

Delilah P · May 29, 2007, 07:40 AM

I agree, talaniman. Counseling will expose if she is serious about being hopeful or not. Unquestionably, the children should always be the main focus. Good advice, tal.

familyman2 · May 31, 2007, 05:39 PM

OK, in typical Familyman form I have written an opening statement for our counseling session tomorrow. This is meant to break the ice and to develop a course theme. Hopefully this will also set the tone for mature discussions and it will get all of the cards on the table.

So, please review and respond with thoughts. I am open to edits, additions, etc:

"It will be great if our ultimate goal is to create a strong marriage; One in which we can be proud, content, and blissfully in love.

Obviously, in order to get there we need to dedicate ourselves to rebuilding the foundation with friendship, compassion, understanding, forgiveness, and proper communication.

This begins here with a commitment to being open and honest about how we feel about issues that have troubled us, but we should also discuss the many positive things that we have accomplished together, and never lose sight of them.

I think if we can do this with empathetic ears, and focus on expressing feelings rather than attacks and blame, we can make positive tracks towards our goal.

I for one am totally open to everything you have to say. I want to know how you feel, and how you think, and how I can do things better; because I want to be better. I want to be the best husband possible to make sure that you have a good life, and that you are always taken care of.

At the same time, it is my wish that you will be open minded and willing to listen to how I feel about the issues. Perhaps you will find things that, done differently, can bring us closer together. And will also provide you with self pride and contentment.

Let's be ready to do the work. Let's be patient and do it right this time. A strong effort, and lots of faith in each other, will reward us with the kind of marriage we both have wanted for many years. We can be best friends, best lovers, with the greatest life and family we could ever ask for. We can be very, very happy. It's right here in front of us.

So let's relax, roll up our sleeves, take a deep breath, and begin step one in our journey home..."

I will probably read this out loud after we have sat down and gone through the pleasantrys. Maybe there would be a better time to read this?

Outside of this, I am feeling very good about our chances of making it. There are definitely many obstacles that can trip us up and close the whole deal. But I know we can have the best chance if you all will pray a little extra with me, and we'll put the rest in God's hands.

Kind regards