[talaniman]

I can't answer that since the only ones in DC saying it are a few repubs while most others say one has nothing to do with the other. Now there is a few who are calling for Rosenstein's firing by Trump and here we still have many repubs saying there is no cause for it, so you tell me. I guess if Trump declassifies the rest of the FISA documents we get to see that "possible" misconduct.

If there is NO misconduct now what?

[tomder55]

I already said I think all the docs should be declassified and released. How else we going to expose the lies in Pathfinder Schiff's memo ?

[talaniman]

What should we do with the lies in Nunes's memo? Or more accurately the lies about the memo? One big whopper is it clears The Dufus of collusion.

[tomder55]

I'll tell you the lies that the Nunes memo exposed ..... there was not a shred of evidence that Carter Page was doing anything illegal. It is not illegal to have business with Russia. It is not even illegal to "collude" with Russia. There must be probable cause that a crime has been committed before a warrant can be granted, and there was none against Page or anyone else. (He had never been charged with anything.) The source of the Steele dossier was never mentioned to the judge when they sought the original warrant, even though the FBI knew that it was wholly funded by the DNC and the Clinton campaign. (Deputy Asst AG Bruce Ohr's wife happened to work at Fusion GPS, which hired Steele.) They never sought to verify any of the information in the dossier, and when they concluded that the dossier was virtually entirely fiction they went back to the judge THREE ADDITIONAL TIMES to get the warrant renewed, never once disclosing that the source had been discredited. Andrew McCabe, whose wife was a Va State Senate candidate who had received substantial funding from Clinton bagman Terry McCauliffe and the Va Democratic Party testified before the Intelligence Committee that without the Fusion GPS/Steele Dossier, there would have been no basis for any kind of FISA warrant whatsoever). And to boot, they offered a Michael Isikoff article as supporting evidence for the warrant, EVEN THOUGH ISIKOFF'S SOURCE WAS CHRISTOPHER STEELE! AND THE FBI KNEW THIS AND DIDN'T MENTION IT TO THE JUDGE!!!

[talaniman]

I'll tell you the lies that the Nunes memo exposed ..... there was not a shred of evidence that Carter Page was doing anything illegal. It is not illegal to have business with Russia. It is not even illegal to "collude" with Russia. There must be probable cause that a crime has been committed before a warrant can be granted, and there was none against Page or anyone else. (He had never been charged with anything.)

https://www.buzzfeed.com/alimwatkins...nmd#.fpZMxwQpg

Maybe its not illegal, and maybe he will never be charged, but you darn well should make sure there is nothing there before you just assume there is nothing to see here.

The source of the Steele dossier was never mentioned to the judge when they sought the original warrant, even though the FBI knew that it was wholly funded by the DNC and the Clinton campaign. (Deputy Asst AG Bruce Ohr's wife happened to work at Fusion GPS, which hired Steele.) They never sought to verify any of the information in the dossier, and even after they fired Page and concluded that the dossier was virtually entirely fiction they went back to the judge THREE ADDITIONAL TIMES to get the warrant renewed, never once disclosing that the source had been discredited. Andrew McCabe, whose wife was a Va State Senate candidate who had received substantial funding from Clinton bagman Terry McCauliffe and the Va Democratic Party testified before the Intelligence Committee that without the Fusion GPS/Steele Dossier, there would have been no basis for any kind of FISA warrant whatsoever). And to boot, they offered a Michael Isikoff article as supporting evidence for the warrant, EVEN THOUGH ISIKOFF'S SOURCE WAS CHRISTOPHER STEELE! AND THE FBI KNEW THIS AND DIDN'T MENTION IT TO THE JUDGE!!!

Lets see now, two candidates under investigation, one publicly, one NOT. One candidate looking for dirt on an opponent knew the dirt was stolen (HACKED) by a foreign power, and used it, the other paid for dirt the repubs found already. So that wholly funded crap doesn't wash!

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/27/u...ul-singer.html

As for verifying the dossier Tom, of course they did,

Comey hinted that Trump-Russia dossier will be verified - Business Insider

Do you really think they went back three times to renew the warrant without enough supporting evidence to get it reissued? That is a stretch, but I guess we will find that out soon enough, as well as what McCabe really said. As to McCabe's wife, TOTALLY IRRELEVANT, but I guess if you are looking for crap to stick you throw everything you can against the wall.

I think it's best to see what comes out next since The Dufus has FIVE days to release more of this case. I also think you have to separate the POLITICAL machinations from the LEGAL process to keep things straight so sorry if I don't get excited about the way the dubious at best happenings of Page will help The Dufus at all at this point. Nor should we be distracted by this side show as I see no good coming from trying to discredit law enforcement. It's more likely in my opinion that Nunes is working for Trump and not the American people.

[tomder55]

The Schiff memo will be released . comedy relief .

[tomder55]

As for verifying the dossier Tom, of course they did,

Comey hinted that Trump-Russia dossier will be verified - Business Insider

October of 2016. Second Comey FISA request relying on the Steele Dossier – FISA Warrant Issued to spy on Carter Page. Andrew McCabe makes it clear that without the dossier, there would have been no FISA warrant.
The dossier has never been verified – to this day. Comey told Trump in January of 2017 that the dossier was “unverified.”

Yet, Comey represented to the FISA Court that the dossier was credible – in part, by citing a Yahoo news story on the matter. However, Comey knew that that story was planted by the dossier author Christopher Steele. In other words, it was not an independent verification of the dossier.

All in all, Comey swore under oath that the Court should consider the dossier credible evidence so that the FBI could spy on Carter Page – even though Page had already left the campaign. Given that it was known that Page already left the campaign, it could well be that Carter Page was the fall guy excuse to begin domestic spying on others.

Without question, Comey misled the FISA Court by submitting and vouching for the unverified dossier and pushing the Yahoo News story. Those were not the only questionable acts, misrepresentations nor omissions of Comey.

[talaniman]

I gotcha Tom. You're on record as saying the dossier is ALL they got on Page and used it 3 times to get a warrant to surveille him through the FISA court. Hmm, maybe that was the whole intent of this Nunes gyrations... to see what they had on Trumps buddy Page, and discredit the FBI and Justice Dept. for Trump's own benefit.

We still have to wait for the Dem memo to be released, or if there is any connection between the White house, and Nunes. There is enough other stuff to deal with while we wait for Dufus to decide though, like another shutdown, and a debt ceiling issue, AND the price increases I predicted.

[tomder55]

your wasting your time with the Schiff memo . You want to read the Nadler memo . Nadler would be the one to run the impeachment proceedings if the Dems gain the majority . It is weak as hell and blatantly political ( Dear Democrat colleagues.... leaked to NBC news ) . But it is a fun read .http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/i/TODAY/z_...nes%20Memo.pdf

[talaniman]

Yeah that was fun, but this may be funner... 8)

https://www.newsmax.com/politics/don...r=010135czvvaj

[tomder55]

Here is the rather heavily redacted memo from Senate Judiciary Commitee Chair Senators Grassley and Graham . The gist of it is a criminal referral for Christopher Steele . https://www.judiciary.senate.gov/imo...0Referral).pdf

Turns out the Steele was lying and misleading just about everyone he dealt with ;including the FBI and Brit Intel. Not only that ;he was feeding these lies to Yahoo news .They published ,and then the Yahoo news feed was used as independent confirmation of the dossier. It gets even better ...... Steele did not even do his own digging . Much of the Steele dossier was information he received from Sid Blumenthal ,aka the Evita campaign.
(you remember him from the days of inventing the birther controversy that so angered the emperor that he told Evita he could not be hired by her State Dept ....not that that stopped her . )

[talaniman]

Trump is the one they should arrest for lying, just like everybody else associated with him. EEEK! I sound like Smoothy now! 8(

Didn't they try to arrest Ellsberg too? Oh wait, he WAS arrested and charged and we know how that worked out.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daniel_Ellsberg

[tomder55]

Ellsberg stole top secret documents. Back then libs like Katherine Graham and Ben Bradlee were willing to go to jail to release top secret documents about government abuse of power . Now the Dems argue that such release harm national security . They went to all types of extreme contortions trying to prevent Nunes from releasing his summary .They claimed he was putting national security at risk , Sound familiar ? The same arguments Nixon used.

[talaniman]

They aren't saying that now since repubs released their memo... devoid of anything but BS! But if the Dufus allows it, then it will look like that Grassley letter, REDACTED. The thing is who will redact what since I expect The Dufus to try his level best to cherry pick what FACTS get released. EX Gen, Kelly hinted as much.

No doubt Mueller is watching with keen interest.

[tomder55]

The Grassley memo is clearly redacted because it makes foundation for a criminal referral . The only reason the Dems don't want the FISA warranted released is because it exposes how baseless they were .

[talaniman]

The dems wanted their version released with the repubs piece of crap. They sided with the DOJ, and FBI in not releasing any of these memos from the start. All that changed when Nunes flimsy memo with no underlying FACTS was made public. What a clown show that was with plenty of hype he didn't deliver on.

Repubs will be exposed, yet again, for the incompetent clowns they are.

.

[tomder55]

Remember when the Dems mocked Romney for calling Russia our number one geopolitical threat ? Remember when the Dems thought that domestic spying was an abuse ? Remember when it was the left that questioned the motives of the deep state ? I thought that the Bush era created a built in distrust for the national security apparatus . Remember there was a time when prominent Dems news moguls like Katherine Graham and Ben Bradley were willing to go to jail to release government secrets ? How benevolent do you think American power and institutions are ? Don't you think it strange that they have gone all out to completely destroy the first outsider elected to the Presidency since perhaps Andrew Jackson or Abe Lincoln. (no I am certainly not comparing Trump to Lincoln except for the fact that his election made the establishment's head explode ) . And yes the libs in their effort to take down Trump have become unhinged if they believe this pile of cow excrement conspiracy theory . Someone show me how exactly the Russians made any significant change in the outcome . Even if I were to concede that the Russians attempted to interfere in the elections tell me how they influenced them . No one changed their votes because the DNC and Evita did not properly secure their emails . No one has proven that any voting machine was "hacked:" . Even if the Russians attempted it (and they probably did ) ,was it any worse then our move to get Yeltsen elected

http://content.time.com/time/covers/...960715,00.html

,or the emperor's attempts to unseat Netanyahu ,
https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...=.e07fe32f4f3a

or our proven meddling in the Ukraine election .....or the many other elections we've "hacked " throughout the years ?http://www.vocativ.com/388500/electi...ies/index.html

[talaniman]

Don't conflate politicians trying to get elected with actual governing policy Tom. Yes many nations have moved up the chain in cyber capabilities and turned our tactics against us. I fully acknowledge our efforts to topple authoritarian regimes has always been at play, going back to the world wars, probably better than raising Armies, and committing blood and treasure.

What we should be aware of is that it can and does happen here a well and The Dufus has failed to even acknowledge it, and there is AMPLE evidence that Russia is in deeper in very sophisticated ways into our institutions than most know and Dufus has done nothing about it.

I for one don't think this is a coincidence, or just incompetence, but intentionally turning a blind eye to the threat to our nation. As it stands you or anybody else doesn't know the total effects of the Russian meddling, or what they intend to do AGAIN, as said by our own agencies that are tasked with finding out the FACTS, except the Commander and Chief!

Yes Tom we weaponized the cyber tools, and others followed, but to stand idly by while they turn those weapons on us now is unacceptable.

[tomder55]

there is AMPLE evidence that Russia is in deeper in very sophisticated ways into our institutions than most know

well said Joe McCarthy . By all means investigate Russian meddling .It would be money much better spent than this Evita campaign and the emperor's initiated witch hunt against Trump.


http://www.nationalreview.com/articl...steele-dossier

[talaniman]

So you really believe that the Steele Dossier is all they have on Page? On Trump? Just because a few repubs are rallying around The Dufus and seemingly Page, we still have no evidence the FISA judges were derelict in their own due diligence, nor the investigators were partisan in theirs.

Just a lot of right wing hollering points, so be cool, and wait, and enjoy the scandals.