[tomder55]

Congress has declared no wars, or taken any actions except in front of a camera,

the AUMF was a declaration of war and still applies

Been going on in the ME for thousands of years, and the Christians have been knee deep in the crap as well.

That's why the west will lose . We have this moral equivalence syndrome.

[tomder55]

The agenda of governments and rich guys have little to do with the actions of loonies but wingers are famous for arranging dots to fit the master conspiracy theory. I have no doubt though of the collusion of rich guys to use the crazy guys to gain a few bucks though.

it's amazing how easy it is to arrange those dots.
When you look at Russia's contributions it becomes even more apparent . Russia wants to be the energy supplier to Europe . A pipeline connecting ME gas through Turkey ;the proposed "Qatar -Turkey" pipeline (especially if it is also tied into the planned pipeline from the South Caucasus through Turkey.... the proposed "Nabucco line " ) would break their virtual monopoly . An alternate pipeline , the 'Iran -Iraq -Syria ' "Friendship Pipeline" ,would cut Turkey out . Syria would be the energy hub ,either exporting it direct to Europe ,or running a pipeline under the Mediterranean to a European country ,with a refinery built in Damascus . Russia would not have direct control ...but with Syria being a client state ,Moscow would have direct influence on the supply. This is why Russia built up its naval presence at the Syrian ports of Latakia and Tartus.

Assad in 2009 refused to go along with the Qatar -Turkey plan ,and instead inked deals with Russia and Iran in 2010 . That set the stage for the Syrian Civil War.


BTW ; the Nabucco line is slated to run through Azerbaijan, Georgia, to Turkey. Russia has already taken out a slice of Georgia . Their actions in Ukraine are in a large part conducted to protect their gas pipeline to Europe . Expect Putin to set his eyes on Azerbaijan next . Russia's economy is critically dependent on it's energy exports.

[paraclete]

Yes we are all being manipulated by Putin or is that Rasputin but his reaction to recent sanctions on the energy sector is interesting, like he thinks your efforts are insignificant. The winter will tell, when he has the opportunity to switch on some sanctions of his own

[tomder55]

judging from our experience with sanctions against Saddam's Iraq ,Castro's Cuba , and the 12ers in Tehran ,I find sanctions to be largely ineffective in a world where so many are willing to violate them . What Putin is trying to accomplish is a monopoly on energy supplies to Europe ;and our "war " ,"counter-terrorism ","kinetic actions"; whatever you want to call them to "defeat" ,"degrade to a manageable level" , against "ISIS" ,"ISIL", the "Islamic State ",whatever puts us in alignment with the powers aligned with Putin's goals .
But the Islamic State is becoming way too big a threat to ignore.

Yes winter begins early in northern Europe .That is why it has calmed down ,and they have begun serious negotiations .

[paraclete]

I doubt Putin finds ISIS little more than an inconvenience, they are militant muslim and he would be strongly opposed to such a group and would want them eliminated before their ideas spread to Chechyna. No one wants to see muslim militants successful. No doubt Putin would like to woo Iraq back into his block.
Sanctions are having an effect on Russia and Iran but they won't cause economic collapse because these countries haven't been stupid enough to transfer their manufacturing capabilities to China. ISIS is a serious threat to Iraq, they have not been successful in beating Assard and now they are fighting on two fronts, a serious strategic error, they have also pissed off the most powerful nations, so they are more of an inconveniece than a threat and people should be careful about self fulfilling propecies

[paraclete]

Australia has announced a deployment of men and aircraft to the middle east specifically to combat ISIS, it seems we have yielded to an american request, as we are to be part of a larger force it will be interesting to see what the composition of that force will be, particularly since it is unlikely to contain americans

[tomder55]

I doubt Putin finds ISIS little more than an inconvenience, they are militant muslim and he would be strongly opposed to such a group and would want them eliminated before their ideas spread to Chechyna.

too late ,they were active in ISIS over a year ago.
http://english.alarabiya.net/en/pers...ilitants-.html

No doubt Putin would like to woo Iraq back into his block.

No doubt ....but until something changes ,Iraq is under the influence of the 12ers .

Sanctions are having an effect on Russia and Iran but they won't cause economic collapse because these countries haven't been stupid enough to transfer their manufacturing capabilities to China. ISIS is a serious threat to Iraq, they have not been successful in beating Assard and now they are fighting on two fronts, a serious strategic error, they have also pissed off the most powerful nations, so they are more of an inconveniece than a threat and people should be careful about self fulfilling prophecies

The centrifuges still spin in Iran . The sanctions have hurt some of Putin's cronies .However ,as long as Russia controls the energy supply to Europe ,they will not have a big enough impact to make him change policies.

I can just hear the talk in 1920s Germany ...those Nazis are an inconvenience .. You sound like the emperor calling them Jayvees .

[paraclete]

I said that Putin found them an inconveniemce, if you want a WWII comparison Stalin was an inconvience to Hitler, something that had to be dealt with. I don't have as much problem with Iran as you do, they represent a check to sunni muslim power, even if they threaten Israel. With that tension in place no one is actually fighting a war with Israel and the way this is going you may actually find them convenient

[tomder55]

I would have no issue with Iran if it wasn't run by the Shia version of jihadistan . The 'Green Movement' revolt against them in 2009 was the one popular uprising in the region I supported . Of course that was the one the emperor completely turned his back on.

[paraclete]

Your politics are too internally focused, you want to grow up and let the man do the job, instead you have a lot of armchair heroes second guessing everyone

[tomder55]

you want me to grow up ? The emperor's disengagement ,naivety, and disinterest in foreign affairs is a main reason we are at this point. We can live with a President who goes through on the job training .But emperor King Putt is only interested in improving his golf swing .

[paraclete]

Your political system breeds this insular attitude with its focus on the electoral cycle. If that cycle brought renewal as it was intended that would be good but all it does is entrench a dog in the manger attitude