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southamerica · Mar 17, 2011, 07:30 AM

Originally Posted by NeedKarma

b) you are a part of one of those since you believe that the earth will end on May 21 2011, this is told to you by a religious "scholar".

Are you sure you have that right NK? I know "headstrongboy" was saying that stuff about May 21, 2011 in the "Seeking God" thread, but I didn't see "hauntinghelper" saying that here. I haven't read everything HH has said in other threads, but I just wanted to make sure.

HH-I like what you've said: too many people blame God when it's a human's interpretation of God's word that's wrong, not God who's wrong.

I personally am far too novice in this life to start talking about what God wants, though I tried when I was younger. I feel in my heart that, as a baby in the grand scheme of things, God doesn't have such high standards that seeking him/her/it as a member of X denomination of X religion will send me or anyone else to hell (if hell exists). Just be good in the best way you know how-and try not to step on many toes.

You're welcome for starting the thread. It's been really interesting thus far.

excon · Mar 17, 2011, 07:37 AM

Hello again,

I've tried to understand why this loving god would send his people to hell, or destroy them.. It never made sense to me, until a lady from the Westboro Baptist Church explained it to me. Yes, THAT Westboro Baptist Church.

She said that hell was the default, and you had to DO something to go to heaven. That makes so much more sense to me. A loving god WOULDN'T consign anybody to hell.

I don't know if this is worth anything, but I thought it clarified some stuff for me.

excon

southamerica · Mar 17, 2011, 07:44 AM

Originally Posted by excon

Hello again,

I've tried to understand why this loving god would send his people to hell, or destroy them.. It never made sense to me, until a lady from the Westboro Baptist Church explained it to me. Yes, THAT Westboro Baptist Church.

She said that hell was the default, and you had to DO something to go to heaven. That makes so much more sense to me. A loving god WOULDN'T consign anybody to hell.

I dunno if this is worth anything, but I thought it clarified some stuff for me.

excon

I don't even believe in a hell. I am not so sure that God is "loving". "Love" is a corporal emotion, like hate, fear, and attraction. They help us as humans relate to one another, avoid danger, reproduce, etc. Why would an omniscient and omnipotent being have any need for human emotions? I think that God is much more distant from human-like than we (as egotistical creatures) have ever wanted to admit. If God is so much like the average joe I meet on the street... that's just plain scary!

NeedKarma · Mar 17, 2011, 07:44 AM

Originally Posted by southamerica

Are you sure you have that right NK? I know "headstrongboy" was saying that stuff about May 21, 2011 in the "Seeking God" thread, but I didn't see "hauntinghelper" saying that here. I haven't read everything HH has said in other threads, but I just wanted to make sure.

You are absolutely correct, thanks for correcting me.

hauntinghelper: my apologies, I did indeed get you confused with HeadStrongBoy.

Wondergirl · Mar 17, 2011, 08:04 AM

Originally Posted by excon

Hello:

My religion says the end will be at 11:11 AM, on 11/11/11 - cause it just seems soooo right.

excon

Whew! My birthday is the 10th. I'll still be eating leftover cake.

hauntinghelper · Mar 17, 2011, 05:04 PM

You're correct... I do NOT believe that about May 21st 2011. I was using it as an example for what a cult is or how people twist scripture for their own needs. It's such a prime example of that because the bible so specifically says that no man will know the time of Christ's return. Funny how that doesn't stop them from saying that they know it.

hauntinghelper · Mar 17, 2011, 05:06 PM

Uhh... my apologies for the "red" mark. I didn't see this post until it was too late. Good thing you have quite the buffer of points.

hauntinghelper · Mar 17, 2011, 05:10 PM

I like to look at it this way. The bible tells us we were made in His image... let's not assume these emotions we have AS humans are strictly human in nature. There is a lot more of us that is God-like than is really taught to us. This could be more of a God attribute than a human one. Anger is not always bad... their is a righteous anger. Jealousy is not always bad... there is a righteous jealousy. Just because God displays emotions does not mean they are used in the same way ours are... very selfishly.

classyT · Mar 17, 2011, 06:44 PM

Originally Posted by excon

Hello again,

I've tried to understand why this loving god would send his people to hell, or destroy them.. It never made sense to me, until a lady from the Westboro Baptist Church explained it to me. Yes, THAT Westboro Baptist Church.

She said that hell was the default, and you had to DO something to go to heaven. That makes so much more sense to me. A loving god WOULDN'T consign anybody to hell.

I dunno if this is worth anything, but I thought it clarified some stuff for me.

excon

My dearest pal,

I'm confuzzled. I think.

Your friend was right.. God doesn't send anyone there and the ONLY thing you have to do ( according to what I understand in the Bible) is reject Christ as your savior.

A loving God wouldn't send anyone there, instead he sent his SON in your place.

You know exy.. I wouldn't keep on telling you that, if I didn't care. :)

NeedKarma · Mar 18, 2011, 04:17 AM

Originally Posted by hauntinghelper

uhh...my apologies for the "red" mark. I didn't see this post until it was too late. Good thing you have quite the buffer of points.

No biggee. It's just a website.:)

southamerica · Mar 18, 2011, 08:34 AM

HH-I can see what you're saying... and I could even accept it. The issue is so many religious people do make God selfish and human. It's when "God" throws a fit over simple human short-comings that the image of an all-knowing, all-loving creator/source and center breaks down... for me.

I could attribute love, empathy, altruism, and the like to a God. Those are rarely seen in animals the way they are in humans. The God version of all of those things is probably something that we cannot comprehend, yet. If it is-I would be disappointed :)

hauntinghelper · Mar 18, 2011, 11:54 AM

Well, let's look at it like this. Remember, by default humanity is born selfish and in sin. God had a plan, Jesus Christ... THE way THE truth and THE life, to redeem mankind back to himself, since sin of any kind cannot stand before this holy and perfect God. So, let's take the most "innocent" sin we can think of. Let's say someone wants to and DOES live a good life, yet does not want anything to do with Christianity. Remember, good in human terms is only relative to other humans... it still does not compare with God. No matter how peaceful and nice this person who lives this "good life" is... by not adhering to the life God called us to live so that we may have fellowship with Him (accepting Christ as our savior by dying in our place)... at the very core of this you have the rejection of God in your life. This person is saying I don't need Jesus Christ, I can make my own way to God. You see, there is really no sin that is just a "little" sin. It all has big issues at the core of it.

One can only be good according to HUMAN terms... we CANNOT be good enough to reach God on our own merit. That is the very reason Jesus Christ came. Because God loves man so much he made such a simple way to redeem them BACK to himself. John 3:16 - "For God SO LOVED the world that He gave His only Son, that who ever believes in Him shall not perish, but have everlasting life."

TUT317 · Mar 18, 2011, 02:11 PM

Originally Posted by hauntinghelper

Well, let's look at it like this. Remember, by default humanity is born selfish and in sin. God had a plan, Jesus Christ...THE way THE truth and THE life, to redeem mankind back to himself, since sin of any kind cannot stand before this holy and perfect God. So, let's take the most "innocent" sin we can think of. Let's say someone wants to and DOES live a good life, yet does not want anything to do with Christianity. Remember, good in human terms is only relative to other humans...it still does not compare with God. No matter how peaceful and nice this person who lives this "good life" is...by not adhering to the life God called us to live so that we may have fellowship with Him (accepting Christ as our savior by dying in our place)...at the very core of this you have the rejection of God in your life. This person is saying I don't need Jesus Christ, I can make my own way to God. You see, there is really no sin that is just a "little" sin. It all has big issues at the core of it.

One can only be good according to HUMAN terms...we CANNOT be good enough to reach God on our own merit. That is the very reason Jesus Christ came. Because God loves man so much he made such a simple way to redeem them BACK to himself. John 3:16 - "For God SO LOVED the world that He gave His only Son, that who ever believes in Him shall not perish, but have everlasting life."

Hi hauntinghelper,

Three questions.

What if someone has never encountered Christianity?

Some practices are relative but does this mean that all practices are relative?

Is a person amoral if they don't know or care about the rules?

A person is ethical if he/she is aware of certain rules they must or should follow. Does this mean that anyone who disagrees or doesn't follow these rules is unethical?

Regards

Tut

hauntinghelper · Mar 18, 2011, 03:28 PM

Romans 2:12-16

12 When the Gentiles sin, they will be destroyed, even though they never had God's written law. And the Jews, who do have God's law, will be judged by that law when they fail to obey it. 13 For merely listening to the law doesn't make us right with God. It is obeying the law that makes us right in his sight. 14 Even Gentiles, who do not have God's written law, show that they know his law when they instinctively obey it, even without having heard it. 15 They demonstrate that God's law is written in their hearts, for their own conscience and thoughts either accuse them or tell them they are doing right. 16 And this is the message I proclaim—that the day is coming when God, through Christ Jesus, will judge everyone's secret life.

God is a just judge. As you see people will be judged differently... according to how they lived according to His laws that ARE written on EVERY man's heart. It is a different situation altogether for someone living in a primitive part of the world who has never had the chance to hear the gospel vs. someone who does receive God's law and rejects it to serve his own ways. Not everybody will be judged the same.

Don't worry about other people... God can get through to anyone... don't use other people as an excuse not to come to terms with Him in your own life.

And to answer your last question... not knowing and not caring about the established moral law are two different things. As that above scripture states... everybody DOES have His law written on their hearts... so there really is no such thing as not knowing right from wrong. I hope you can understand how not caring is a big deal too.

NeedKarma · Mar 19, 2011, 12:35 AM

Originally Posted by hauntinghelper

...everybody DOES have His law written on their hearts...so there really is no such thing as not knowing right from wrong..

What you miss is that my god, the Flying Spagetti Monster, has his law written into your heart, that's why you try to be good.

paraclete · Mar 19, 2011, 03:04 AM

Please give us a break karma you don't even believe your own ethic. My God knows all sees all and at the appropriate moment rewards all, be in awe of this

NeedKarma · Mar 19, 2011, 03:18 AM

Originally Posted by paraclete

please give us a break karma you don't even believe your own ethic. My God knows all sees all and at the appropriate moment rewards all, be in awe of this

There are several gods that people believe in, don't expect all to share yours. I am in awe of none of it.

paraclete · Mar 19, 2011, 03:30 AM

Originally Posted by NeedKarma

There are several gods that people believe in, don't expect all to share yours. I am in awe of none of it.

That's your problem no belief no reward

NeedKarma · Mar 19, 2011, 04:11 AM

I'm already getting my reward - good family, good health, good friends - do you not have this as well?

I don't believe or care about eternal life if that's your planned rejoinder.

paraclete · Mar 19, 2011, 05:10 AM

Originally Posted by NeedKarma

I'm already getting my reward - good family, good health, good friends - do you not have this as well?
I don't believe or care about eternal life if that's your planned rejoinder.

Of course I have those things how do you think I can waste my time here but looking forward there is more