[excon]

Still not true and you know it.

Hello again, Steve:

Must been that last hit...

Yup, I mis spoke again, I should have said that if you're poor, you get medicaid. If you're a member of the working poor, you don't get health care...

Now, before you say that health care is available at the ER, I'm going to call YOU a liar. We've had this discussion before. You say that going to see a doctor at the ER when you're sick is the same thing as getting health care. I say it's not. Plus, if you say the working poor get health care, because you know someone who's poor and they get great health care, I'm again, going to call YOU the liar.

excon

[smoothy]

Hello again, Steve:

Must been that last hit...

Yup, I mis spoke again, I should have said that if you're poor, you get medicaid. If you're a member of the working poor, you don't get health care...
Now, before you say that health care is available at the ER, I'm gonna call YOU a liar. We've had this discussion before. You say that going to see a doctor at the ER when you're sick is the same thing as getting health care. I say it's not. Plus, if you say the working poor get health care, because you know someone who's poor and they get great health care, I'm again, gonna call YOU the liar.

excon

Still total Bullsh*t...

My brother years ago got downsized... right after he started his new job he had a ruptured appendix... he wasn't yet covered under his new employers insurance... he had no money...

was he tossed out on the street to die like you claim here... no, they operated on him... when he had complications that meant he had to be fed intravieniously for a month... he got it...

And contrary to what YOU claimed yet again following Democrat party talking points which are pure propaganda and false... you DO get needed care even IF you aren't insured, OR on Medicaid.


Why YOU and the left THINK you should get top tier care without paying a dime for anything is typical Socialist mindset. Basic care is all anyone who is unwilling to pay for deserves.

I suppose you complain Soup Kitchens don't serve prime rib and lobster too?



Doctors spend a lot of time in school, a lot of money to go to school... and why people on the left think they should get everything free while they overvalue their own time is beyond understanding.


When was the last time YOU worked for free, or paid someone else's bill when you were out?

Do the poor deserve new cars... a new free house... free airfares to the French Riviera? Will YOU pay for it for them? I know I won't.


Ever go to an emergency room... want to know how many "Poor" people all have their own cell phones... ever notice how those cost far more than basic service in your house... see their misplaced priorities?

[excon]

And contrary to what YOU claimed yet again following Democrat party talking points which are pure propaganda and false....you DO get needed care even IF you aren't insured, OR on Medicaid.

Hello again smoothy:

Then the 35 million Obama is going to cover is just a waste of money, because all those people NOW get the greatest health care in the world... Is THAT what you're saying?

So, the idea to cover them is really just a secret commie plot to send the country into ruin? What IS the point of covering them, if they already have good care? Maybe a secret commie plot to "take over" the rest of the country - although I don't see how insuring all these people is going to do that.

Really, smoothy. People DIE here in this country because they don't have access to health care. This law is going to help that.

I know. I know. You're going to stick with your commie BS.

excon

[smoothy]

Hello again smoothy:

Then the 35 million Obama is going to cover is just a waste of money, because all those people NOW get the greatest health care in the world... Is THAT what you're saying?

So, the idea to cover them is really just a secret commie plot to send the country into ruin? What IS the point of covering them, if they already have good care? Maybe a secret commie plot to "take over" the rest of the country - although I don't see how insuring all these people is gonna do that.

Really, smoothy. People DIE here in this country because they don't have access to health care. This law is gonna help that.

I know. I know. You're gonna stick with your commie BS.

excon

Exactly... a TOTAL waste of money... THEY have money to eat out... they have money for cell phones... they have money for cable TV, they have money for video games... they have money for everything but what they should buy first.

"Really, smoothy. People DIE here in this country because they don't have access to health care. This law is gonna help that."

Total Bulls*t... Prove it... If people were thrown out on the street from hospitals to die... the left wing news would be all over it... so that claim should be real easy for you to prove. With 30 million (12 million of whom are illegals)... there while be hundreds of thousands of deaths in front of hospitals by your assertations.

Because if you can't back that lie up with some evidence... then read into what that makes you.

And because some DNC official blowhard makes that claim, even Dumbo Ears Obama... its still a bold faced lie.

And ANY person who does or ever has worked in a hospital knows the LAW is they HAVE to treat them.


Funny how if YOU was forced to work for free... you'd be screaming slavery... or forced servitude. Yet you expect Doctors to do it.

Expect MANY doctors to close up shop rather than work like that... If I was a doctor... I'd take a hiatus... rather than work for less than free. Because they still have bills and rents to pay... no income is better than having to pay to work.


And we are talking FEDERAL law that requires them to take anyone who walks into a ER... not state or local laws.

[JoeCanada76]

- Montreal is a city in the province of Quebec.

- Canada has 10 provinces and 3 territories. So to say that experiences in Montreal speak for the rest of canada is just unbelievable.

- Each province has the responsibility to deliver health care to the citizens.

- Quebec government has always wanted to do things there own way, be there own distant country and etc etc... To say there changes they want in health care, and also to be arrogant enough to think the rest of the country should follow suit because of one province. It does not work that way, sorry.

- So what, Montreal had bad experiences. That does not speak for the rest of canada.

- Nor do the americans know enough about Canada to know a lot. Tend to be so self absorbed in their own stuff and own issues that they have no clue what is going else where.

- On the other hand I think a lot of us, knows more about the united states because we do pay attention to the world around us. Not just focus on our own selves all the time.

[speechlesstx]

- Canada has 10 provinces and 3 territories. So to say that experiences in Montreal speak for the rest of canada is just unbelievable.

This organization thinks there is a coast to coast need for private care.

the americans... Tend to be so self absorbed in their own stuff and own issues that they have no clue what is going else where.

Is that a universal talking point outside of the U.S. I imagine it must be printed in textbooks across Europe and Canada as I've read it almost verbatim more times than I can count. Can we get a little more original with our insults?

[JoeCanada76]

It does not matter what organization thinks what, what matters is what Canadians think.

It is not an insult it is the truth. There is a big difference.

[speechlesstx]

It does not matter what organization thinks what, what matters is what Canadians think.

And as I said, if you love it then great, but the evidence still shows a lot of Canadians don't feel the same way.

It is not an insult it is the truth. There is a big difference.

As if ignorance is a distinctly American trait...

[NeedKarma]

And as I said, if you love it then great, but the evidence still shows a lot of Canadians don't feel the same way..

Hey speech, if I post a website that shows an american group that favours universal healthcare does that now prove that a majority of Americans want that? Is that we play that game?

[inthebox]

Hello again, smoothy:

I'm sure there's rationing of health care in Canada. But, why do you think there ISN'T health care rationing here? We DO, of course, ration health care. Our rationing is based on one's ability to pay, whereas Canada's rationing is based on one's ability to wait.

At least in Canada, someone is seen by a doctor eventually. Here, if you don't have any money, you DON'T see a doctor. Our system is fine if you have money. It's not so fine if you don't.

Now, you can argue that our system of rationing is better because it's based on capitalism, the free market, and the right stuff. But, to put down the Canadians because they ration AT ALL, is the proverbial pot calling the kettle black.

excon

Facts?


Go to any inner city university training program and I guarantee you that on every ward there multiple inpatients that have no insurance or the hospital / taxpayor is paying for it. Leave the keyboard behind and experience real life- go to Cook county in chicago or Charity in New Orleans or Kings county in New York or Grady in Atlanta. They get world class cutting edge medical treatment that can't even be imagined in countries with socialized medicine.

Also include the Shriner's hospital, St Jude Hospitals - why not donate?



G&P

[tomder55]

Montreal is a city in the province of Quebec.

- Canada has 10 provinces and 3 territories. So to say that experiences in Montreal speak for the rest of canada is just unbelievable.

And here I thought it was a universal system in Canada .It is a system where provinces determine the level of care ? Sort of like the United States then, where each state determines the level of care the Medicaid system provides... or at least they did before Obamacare.
To tell you the truth ,I suspect here in NY the truly needy are going to get gypted because our social safety net is generous.

[paraclete]

Facts?

They get world class cutting edge medical treatment that can't even be imagined in countries with socialized medicine.

G&P

This is an indication that you think the rest of the world is stupid and inferior to the US, there are many medical innovators in other parts of the world. The US health system is ranked 37th by the World Health Organisation behind such places of socialised medicine as France or perhaps the whole of Western Europe, Australia, Canada and ranks 14th on the scale of preventable deaths, 24th on life expectancy 95th in fairness of the financial contribution and only first in health expenditure per capita.

What does it tell us, that cutting edge that benefits the few you imagine you have available to you as a justification for the high cost of health care is actually delivering outcomes you would expect in Slovenia. All you are doing is keeping the doctors and insurance companies rich. I am glad I live in a system in which the delivery of any procedure isn't dependent upon the whim of an insurance company deadhead.
The WHO also made this comment

The authors also note that "it is difficult to disregard the observation that the slow decline in U.S. amenable mortality has coincided with an increase in the uninsured population, an issue that is now receiving renewed attention

[inthebox]

WHO ?

They don't control for factors that have nothing to do with MEDICAL CARE - such things as obesity, ethnicity, smoking rates, homicide rates etc. things that have a big influence on mortality and life span rates but are not a good measure of actual medical care. In a measure of medical care, such as cancer survival rates, even the British medical journal, Lancet, has factual evidence that the US healthcare system is better.

As one who has been working in the US healthcare field for more than 20 years, If you think that people without the ability to pay or don't have insurance, don't get medical care, go to any hospital, any clinic, any health department and ask how much care is given free, or written off. Ask any ER doctor or nurse how many people, without any insurance ARE seen and taken care of.



G&P

[JoeCanada76]

and here I thought it was a universal system in Canada .It is a system where provinces determine the level of care ? Sorta like the United States then, where each state determines the level of care the Medicaid system provides....or at least they did before Obamacare.
To tell you the truth ,I suspect here in NY the truely needy are going to get gypted because our social safety net is generous.

There is a universal standard for Canada. There are laws each province is supposed to abide by. If they do not comply then they will get into a lot of trouble.

The province, Quebec is a unique situation on its own, but as said earlier. There are good hospitals, bad hospitals, good doctors and bad doctors. Just because people in Montreal quebec has had problems does not indicate that the whole country is the same.

As far as the social net, you guys in the state have none. What safety net do you guys have?

[paraclete]

As far as the social net, you guys in the states have none. What safety net do you guys have?

It is fairly obvious isn't it? They rely on welfare or the charity of others, I don't this think is much different to a third world country

[paraclete]

WHO ?

They don't control for factors that have nothing to do with MEDICAL CARE - such things as obesity, ethnicity, smoking rates, homicide rates etc. things that have a big influence on mortality and life span rates but are not a good measure of actual medical care. .

G&P

What you seem to ignore are the facts as documented by an independent organisation, in any case I thought we were discussing medical care. You want to discuss removing some of the causes of ill health, then start with your big corporations in food, tobacco, power. You want to say that your ethnicity causes you to have bad statistics, how come a place like Australia which is home to every race on Earth is higher up the scale than you are. It isn't ethnicity, but life style that affects health. Unless you are making a specific comment about particular races, ethnicity has no place in the argument. As far as mortality is concerned, certain other factors come into play, such as gun ownership, drug addiction, unemployment.

[inthebox]

You miss the point. If someone dies due to heart disease in country A and does not in Country B, you have to control for confounding factors: tobacco use, cholesterol levels, age, high blood pressure, diabetes, family history. If there are more of these factors in Country A rather than country B then it is no surprise that Country a has higher rate of and deaths due to heart disease. That rate has nothing to do with actual medical care. You have to compare apples to apples, which the WHO does not.

I guess you are in favor of the government making lifestyle choices for you - rules for what you can eat or how much or what you can drink and you dare not smoke or have a waist above a certain size etc...

What ever happened to personal responsibility and choice?
Is it right for someone not to play an active role in their own health?
No one put a gun to your head and told you to smoke, eat fast food, and spend most of your time not moving around, so when you have metabolic syndrome why should you expect another taxpayor to pay for the lifestyle you led?

That is why costs are going up, the majority of healthcare dollars spent here or in socialized medicine are paid for by someone other than the person receiving the service.

G&P




G&P

[inthebox]

High Blood Pressure Statistics

Non-Hispanic blacks are more likely to suffer from high blood pressure than are non-Hispanic whites.
Within the African-American community, those with the highest rates of hypertension, are more likely to be middle aged or older, less educated, overweight or obese, physically inactive, and to have diabetes.
In 2006 the death rates per 100,000 population from high blood pressure were 15.6 for white males, 51.1 for black males, 14.3 for white females and 37.7 for black females.

And yes, ethnicity does make a difference - a factual medical difference.



G&P

[paraclete]

I guess you are in favor of the government making lifestyle choices for you - rules for what you can eat or how much or what you can drink and you dare not smoke or have a waist above a certain size etc...

G&P

Where do you get this stuff from? You have been listening to insurance company propaganda. The government doesn't make life style choices for me, it supports whatever choice I make but it does endeavour to have me make the right choice through information. I am probably personally paying for some wrong life style choices when I was younger but the government says nothing about that in it's approach to providing health care. Unlike your insurance companies it does not discriminate for pre-existing conditions.

The reality is you just don't get it because you live in a society which has a wrong idea of what freedom is really about. Freedom and Liberty is about every person having an equal opportunity to enjoy life to the fullest. Freedom isn't about every person doing his damnest to climb over the top of every other person.

[speechlesstx]

Hey speech, if I post a website that shows an american group that favours universal healthcare does that now prove that a majority of Americans want that? Is that we play that game?

What part of me acknowledging - for the third time in this post alone now - that some like it and some, don't you get? I'm not misrepresenting Canadians or their health care system, don't misrepresent me.