[tomder55]

Businesses and banks share and sell lists all the time and to deal with them you do have to check a box of a lot of fine print no one reads. I can deal with check balances and safe guards that reflect the new technology and defines what legal and not.

As much as I hate the idea of law enforcement having vast powers, I recognize they have to have tools to be effective against bad guys who are ever coming up with ways to get what they want.

I mean how else can you separate bad guys killing innocent ones if you can't tell them apart? Its to late after the bomb goes off.

Well for one thing ,remember that FISA means Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act ; not FEDERAL Intelligence Surveillance Act

MR. EARNEST: I know there's at least one story that all of you may b
E interested in: the reports overnight about a purported order from a FISA judge, as reported. So why don't I read a statement at the top just to give you a sense about where we are on this, and then I’m happy to answer your follow-up questions after that. So if you'll bear with me, we’ll do this.

It won’t surprise you to hear that I'm not in a position to discuss specific classified or operational issues. But what I can explain to you are our policies. The Patriot Act was signed into law in October of 2001, and included authority to compel production of business records and other tangible details with the approval of a FISA Court. This provision has subsequently been reauthorized over the course of two different administrations -- in 2006 and in 2011.

The Obama administration has made public that some orders issued by the FISA Court, under Section 215 of the Patriot Act, have been used to support important and highly sensitive intelligence collection operations on which members of Congress have been fully and repeatedly briefed. And I think you’ve heard a couple of members of Congress in both parties today acknowledge that fact.

The intelligence community is conducting court-authorized intelligence activities pursuant to a public statute with the knowledge and oversight of Congress and the intelligence community in both houses of Congress. There is also extensive oversight by the executive branch, including the Department of Justice and relevant agency counsels and inspectors general, as well as annual and semi-annual reports to Congress, as required by law.

There is a robust legal regime in place governing all activities conducted, pursuant to the Federal Intelligence Surveillance Act. That regime has been briefed to and approved by the court. And activities authorized under the act are subject to strict controls and procedures under oversight of the Department of Justice, the Office of the Director of National Intelligence, and the FISA Court, to ensure that they comply with the Constitution and the laws of the United States and appropriately protect privacy and civil liberties.

The order reprinted overnight does not allow the government to listen in on anyone's telephone calls. The information acquired does not include the content of any communications or the name of any subscriber. It relates exclusively to call details, such as a telephone number or the length of a telephone call.

The information of the sort described in the article has been a critical tool in protecting the nation from terror threats as it allows counterterrorism personnel to discover whether known or suspected terrorists have been in contact with other persons who may be engaged in terrorist activities, particularly people located inside the United States.

My final point here: The President welcomes a discussion of the tradeoffs between security and civil liberties. Many of you covered his speech at the National Defense University just a couple of weeks ago. In that speech, the President said, "…in the years to come, we will have to keep working hard to strike the appropriate balance between our need for security and preserving those freedoms that make us who we are. That means reviewing the authorities of law enforcement so we can intercept new types of communication, but also build in privacy protections to prevent abuse.”

Press Gaggle by Deputy Principal Press Secretary Josh Earnest and Secretary of Education Arne Duncan en route Mooresville, NC, 6/6/2013 | The White House

[cdad]

Well hell, that's the solution then, wait until they strike and then start looking for them. Why didn't I think of that?

Not sure but that is not the answer either. It's a matter of being proactive without throwing everyone under the bus. Just like what they did a few years back in Washington State when that guy wanted to blow stuff up during a Chirstmas celebration. They waited until he pushed the button before the arrest. Up to that point they were investigating it and watching it unfold.

[talaniman]

I don't see it as throwing everyone under the bus, but I do hope that the safeguards should be put on the FISA court and the FBI that prevent just any old use of the data they mine. You are a computer guy so you know a broad data base is needed for identifying the norms to compare to the abnormal. A background to bring a clear picture to light.

I think though that the rules will be tightened up quite a bit, or the congress will look closer.

[tomder55]

Dark Knight cell phone surveillance — Critical Commons

[talaniman]

Rooting for the Joker huh? Okay they got the Joker, didn't they know Catwoman, and the Penguin were coming? Bet Lex Luthor has a better system.

Are you rooting for Lex to beat Superman? You probably are since you guys hate illegal aliens who sneak into the Earth.

[tomder55]

I think Lucious Fox made excellent points. The idea that the government would dragnet millions of phone conversations is like I've already said... seaching through a field of hay stacks hoping to find a needle. I had no problem when the system was being used for conversations with known jihadist #s . It's a horse of a different color to make a broad sweep .

[paraclete]

Horse of different colour, you have a mixed metaphor Tom horses don't search for needles in the hay, but we know who does, NSA, the Nasty Spies Association or the CIA,
The Crippled Intelligence Association, who isn't allowed to go trolling on their own

[tomder55]

The latest excuse is that the intel community took a hit for blowing the intel prior to 9/11/01 because intel was compartmentalized on a "need to know " basis . So they changed their methods to more interdepartment sharing ;and intel became a 'need to share ' arrangement . So that's why we get weasels like Bradley Manning and this jerk Ed Snowden .

Then to my great disappointment , John Bolton said that the dragnet approach had to be OK because all 3 branches of government signed off on it. What nonsense! There is nothing in any of the laws that cover this activity that justifies such a broad data grab. What I would like to see is the brief that the Obots submitted to a FISA judge to get the judge to sign the warrant . The judge should be impeached.

[NeedKarma]

Well this is interesting: Bush’s Carlyle Group behind NSA Spying
It's Tin Foil Hat Time – Bush's Carlyle Group behind NSA Spying « Dvorak News Blog

[tomder55]

Add some extra tin foil... James Robert Clapper, the emperor's DNI ,who lied to Congress about the NSA collecting data on hundreds of millions of Americans,was employed by BAH . Before him ,Bush hired John M. McConnell for the role... also from BAH . So it appears that both adm. Have dipped their beaks into the same well.

[excon]

Hello again,

Bush’s Carlyle Group behind NSA Spying

I'm not thrilled that we're subcontracting our national security apparatus to private companies that are partly owned by Saudi Shieks... But, that's just me.

Maybe you trust your government with your secrets (I don't know why), but do you trust private companies with 'em?

Excon

[NeedKarma]

"Military Industrial Complex"

[tomder55]

Kind of hard to get the geek squad to apply for a government job when they can command the salaries they do in the private sector . Ed Snowden obviously was doing all right for himself according to his video and the pix I've seen of his "pole dancer " girlfriend .

[cdad]

kinda hard to get the geek squad to apply for a government job when they can command the salaries they do in the private sector . Ed Snowden obviously was doing alright for himself according to his video and the pix I've seen of his "pole dancer " girlfriend .

120k a year. But depending on what he was doing in his field that's about the correct salary. I don't see a problem there.

[talaniman]

Why squeal and run to China? China??

[tomder55]

Why squeal and run to China? China???

Best guess is that Jullian Assange isn't paying what he used to for espionage.

[paraclete]

Julian isn't paying anything these days but no doubt others are

[tomder55]

The dots are connecting and they are pointing towards Chinese espionage.

[excon]

Hello again, tom:

Would you share your dots?

excon

[paraclete]

the dots are connecting and they are pointing towards Chinese espionage.

I have heard they are also pointing towards US espionage, but you don't call it that ioer there, what is the venacular? Intelligence gathering? Given your track record I guess you need to do one hundred times as much as everyone else