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tomder55 · Feb 18, 2013, 03:03 PM

Obama paid lip service to that last week in Chi-town
Video: Barack Obama: 'I wish I'd had a father who was around' - Telegraph
Guess that was hate speech too .

It was a rare moment when a lib spoke candidly of the consequences of their poliices.

Wondergirl · Feb 18, 2013, 03:39 PM

Originally Posted by speechlesstx

The right question is why doesn't the left promote what is proven to work?

No. The right question is why doesn't the right get off its behind and promote some useful ideas instead of constantly moaning about what they consider bad ones being pushed by the left?

talaniman · Feb 18, 2013, 03:41 PM

Originally Posted by speechlesstx

Asking the wrong question, I'm not going down that road to strawmanville. The right question is why doesn't the left promote what is proven to work?

Divorce is a strawman argument? More like reality since half the marriages in America end in divorce. And that's not accounting for the relationships that end in kids,but no relationship.

So tell me other than controlling people and making them stay together, what do we do with them? Why doesn't the right recognize that reality has to be dealt with, and not swept under the rug while you doggedly stick to your solutions that may have good intentions but is not the ultimate solution.

talaniman · Feb 18, 2013, 03:45 PM

Originally Posted by tomder55

Obama paid lip service to that last week in Chi-town
Video: Barack Obama: 'I wish I'd had a father who was around' - Telegraph
Guess that was hate speech too .

It was a rare moment when a lib spoke candidly of the consequences of their poliices.

Maybe in your own right wing world but he wasn't lamenting policy, he was lamenting the truth of his own existence. I guess you hear what you want.

speechlesstx · Feb 18, 2013, 03:53 PM

Originally Posted by Wondergirl

No. The right question is why doesn't the right get off its behind and promote some useful ideas instead of constantly moaning about what they consider bad ones being pushed by the left?

You act as if the right has abandoned its dedication to the very things you said you wanted to promote. It has done no such thing but is marginalized and mocked for "clinging to old-fashioned values" and "living in the past" blah, blah, blah. Your fight over the proposed solutions you suggest today is with the left for undermining those values. You should point your "family values and God/mom/apple pie and education improvements that actually work" argument at them, we still believe in that but that message is not going to get through the liberal media and academic echo chambers.

speechlesstx · Feb 18, 2013, 03:55 PM

Originally Posted by talaniman

Divorce is a strawman argument? More like reality since half the marriages in America end in divorce. And thats not accounting for the relationships that end in kids,but no relationship

So tell me other than controlling people and making them stay together, what do we do with them? Why doesn't the right recognize that reality has to be dealt with, and not swept under the rug while you doggedly stick to your solutions that may have good intentions but is not the ultimate solution..

I love it when you validate my point, and right on cue.

talaniman · Feb 18, 2013, 04:19 PM

So we agree your good intenions aren't enough to produce good results? That's a good start.

Wondergirl · Feb 18, 2013, 04:31 PM

Originally Posted by speechlesstx

that message is not going to get through the liberal media and academic echo chambers.

And so you are going to crawl into a corner wimpering?

Want me to list the family and personal values that the right espouses that are very important and would even be acknowledged by the left as good?

speechlesstx · Feb 18, 2013, 06:47 PM

Originally Posted by talaniman

So we agree your good intenions aren't enough to produce good results? Thats a good start.

Not at all, you haven't gotten past the straw man that we don't understand reality.

speechlesstx · Feb 18, 2013, 06:49 PM

Originally Posted by Wondergirl

And so you are going to crawl into a corner wimpering?

When respond in a relevant manner we can talk.

Wondergirl · Feb 18, 2013, 07:05 PM

Originally Posted by speechlesstx

When respond in a relevant manner we can talk.

So far, all I've heard is wimpering and accusations, but no plans to solidify and spread conservative ideas and values.

paraclete · Feb 18, 2013, 08:02 PM

Sounds like the right side is divided against itself

talaniman · Feb 18, 2013, 10:08 PM

Originally Posted by Wondergirl

And so you are going to crawl into a corner wimpering?

Want me to list the family and personal values that the right espouses that are very important and would even be acknowledged by the left as good?

Go for it. Its got to be better than the hollering and dismissing everything as a strawman argument.

tomder55 · Feb 19, 2013, 03:42 AM

add to the list the polices of the left that undermine the values they claim to support .

talaniman · Feb 19, 2013, 05:12 AM

Add them yourself.

excon · Feb 19, 2013, 06:57 AM

Hello:

Changing hearts and minds means convincing them that voting for positions we believe in is in their best interests.

The right question is why doesn't the left promote what is proven to work?

I've been reading..

In MY view, before we talk about a GOP Hispanic female running for president, we should have the discussion about immigration reform.. The right wing, of the right wing party isn't going to go for ANY law that leaves ANY illegal immigrant IN this country. I think that'll put the kibosh on immigration reform and ANY hopes the GOP has for national office.

You talk about "what's proven to work", and "positions that are IN their best interests", yet STAYING in this country is in their interest FIRST and FOREMOST..

On other threads, the MOST I've gotten from you, is the concession from tom that once the right wing demands have been met, he's ready to NEGOTIATE whether they can stay or not... THAT position will NOT get a right winger elected, and I think his views represent what your ordinary right winger thinks... And, they're NOT about to accept 11 million new Democrats..

Therefore, the candidacy of Susan Martinez is DEAD in the water BEFORE it ever gets underway.

Excon

paraclete · Feb 19, 2013, 07:07 AM

Ex what you are really saying is the GOP is outnumbered and their support base will decline

tomder55 · Feb 19, 2013, 07:12 AM

Hard to compete against freebees

excon · Feb 19, 2013, 07:18 AM

Hello again, clete:

I'm saying they're faced with changing a long held position, or giving up national office and becoming a regional party..

I DO agree with tom's original sentiments, however. The Mexican interlopers are conservative in their lives, their religion and their politics... They're NATURAL born Republicans.. But, once they realized that the right wing just wants to THROW THEM OUT, all that other stuff doesn't matter.

excon

excon · Feb 19, 2013, 07:25 AM

Hello again, tom:

hard to compete against freebees

Couple things. It's not true, and it's a losing position.

You know, the right wing can't remember what went on BEFORE Obama came on the scene... Now, you're going to forget what happened during our last election...

As a lefty, I'm THRILLED with it.

Excon