[paraclete]

Well perhaps they thought the little people like you would suffer more

[dontknownuthin]

There's a problem with undermining and continuing this hate for all the rich guys in board rooms. They hire people. They do the deals that build our trade in the world environment. They make the big-ticket donations to the charities that protect the most vulnerable among us. They take the big risks that move our economy in progressive ways. They get rich doing it - fine with me if while getting rich they also drag many people from poverty into the middle class, and some from the middle class to elite levels of financial wealth.

Getting rid of rich people is flat out a stupid policy ideal, though it's Obama's core strategy. He is trying to take one of the world's wealthiest nations and move us into the third world. Apparently it's more "fair" if we're all poor.

[paraclete]

While you are right in some of what you say there is a need for such people to pay taxes and not hide their earnings in tax shelters

[talaniman]

Paying more taxes at the top doesn't make rich guys poor. We are only talking about 4% increase on 2% of the population.

It also addresses uncertainty, which most businesses and wall street said they needed. Its lunacy the rich should pay less than the working poor. We all agree the middle class tax cuts should continue, so do what we all agree on and keep negotiating the rest.

[tomder55]

Apparently it's more "fair" if we're all poor.

That's exactly his thinking . He even said so when confronted with the evidence that lowering the rates increases revenues. He said he would do it anyway over the issue of what he perceives as 'fair' .

[tomder55]

We are only talking about 4% increase on 2% of the population.

isolate and demonize . The Democrat Alinsky party .

[talaniman]

And name calling changes the facts of the debate HOW? Do you really think rich guy deserve more protection under the law than everyone else?

[speechlesstx]

Do you really think poor people are going be better off by taxing the rich?

[paraclete]

What a spirious argument, poor people will only be better off when the society takes a real interest in addressing the issues that make them poor, some of those things are inequality and exploitation. Do you think the poor will be better off by increasing taxes on them? The rich have always objected to being taxed, but the rich are not made worse off by taxing them since no one takes 100%. What you are objecting to is a 4% increase in tax. Here's an idea, make it equal and everyone pay more. No, you don't like that idea either, but the rich couldn't bleat then. Your country is bankrupt and you don't want to pay more tax to help overcome the problem, you would rather future generations solve the problem for you because you are too dumb arse to do it. You want the poor to bear the burden so the rich can become richer

[tomder55]

Here's an idea, make it equal and everyone pay more. No, you don't like that idea either,

Ummm you didn't wait for my response... of course to make the tax system equal everyone should pay the same flat rate.But you guys aren't concerned about equal... you are concerned about your perception of fairness.

[paraclete]

Tom you think I should wait around for your opinion, we have heard your opinion before, but that idea is ridiculous because to collect enough money the rate has to be rediculously high and have a catastrophic effect on the poor. Those who benefit most (the rich) should pay the most. Taxes go to provide the inferstructure that enables the rich to make money, therefore they should pay. Would you be infavour of a fifty percent tax rate for everyone irrespective of means. What a disincentive to be employed for a poor person, in fact it is inflationary because the level of wages would have to be very high to make such a system work..

You want a flat rate tax, abandon income tax and tax consumption, tax spending and tax money transactions. Take the tax right off the top, so there can be no deductions

[talaniman]

Do you really think poor people are going be better off by taxing the rich?

Yes, becaue they will be no WORSE off for sure!!

ummm you didn't wait for my response ....of course to make the tax system equal everyone should pay the same flat rate.But you guys aren't concerned about equal ...you are concerned about your perception of fairness.

For one, it NOT fair for the rich to pay less than anyone in the lower brackets, and for two a flat consumption tax isn't fair on those states that have a state tax, and those that pay payroll taxes, and detroys the buying power of all the middle and lower tax classes, and to be honet my idea of fair is a lot more fairer than the one you have presented.

I mean don't we build roads and bridges to help the rich guy make money? Don't we give them tax breaks to build their store in our cities? Don't we as a people deserve more than low wage for all that help to the "job creators" who have not created jobs?

That not my idea of fair!

Just saying.

We wouldn't be having this conversation if they had done their job, and NOT blown the money on cigars and cognac, and being GREEDY!

Job creators my A$$!

[tomder55]

but that idea is ridiculous because to collect enough money the rate has to be rediculously high and have a catastrophic effect on the poor.

But you think raising rates a couple points on the rich is going to make a difference ? You're joking right ?
Nothing will matter if spending isn't checked . You're whole tax ruse is about your perception of fairness and has nothing to do with fiscal sanity .

Take the tax right off the top, so there can be no deductions

Well that part is sane at least.

[paraclete]

Sane, insane Tom what is not sane is doing the same things and exxpecting things to change. Yes you have to cut the cloth, it you are paying benefits you can no longer afford then you have to make adjustments. Don't you think this is realised, the difficulty is do do it whilst impacting as little as possible on the most vulnerable. What you do is set thresholds so those who have their own resources don't get on they bandwagon.But you also look to those who have benefited to contribute. You have a situation where the wealth of your nation is owned by very few and the intention is to target those people to contribute more.

80% of your people have only 5% of the wealth and yet you think taxing these people more will solve your problems, bunkum! 80% of your people earn less than 40% of the income.

BO wants to tax the top 2% more, I think he has it wrong, he left a digit out

The fact is you are under taxed relative to the public inferstructure you are trying to maintain. You want aircraft carriers and to project your military power, then pay tax, you want bridges and highways then pay tax

[talaniman]

LOL, If a .05% tax increase on the top 2% can fund a million jobs to fix roads and bridges, imagine what 4% can do! Revenue + smart spending cuts = jobs and paying the debt.

Your way with just spending cuts = poverty increasing and even less revenue. The same plan that has Europeans in a worse down turn than before. Why would we do that?

[paraclete]

Tal he doesn't get it he has swallowed the B/S believing it will be all right on the night. Fact is it won't. There is one way to fix the debt, massive inflation, devaluing the currency until it is worthless or at least the same value as the Chinese wan, that might even bring some of those jobs back but goodbye Walmart, We will buy equipment from you using US dollars, might even pick up an aircraft carrier or two

[tomder55]

The same plan that has Europeans in a worse down turn than before. Why would we do that?

The Europeans did not cut enough .Their cuts were marginal... AND... they raised taxes in an economic downturn . That's STUPID !

You are the ones who doesn't get it. In France,the "austerity" consisted almost entirely on raising taxes. There was a 3 percent surtax on the rich , an increase of one percentage point in the top marginal tax rate ,and an end to the automatic index of tax brackets . There was also a 5 percent increase in corporate income taxes on businesses... AND an increase in the capital gains tax,AND a closing of many corporate tax breaks. Then they screwed the middle income with an increase in the VAT; and excise taxes on tobacco and alcohol.

It doesn't surprise me at all that their economic plan failed and they are headed back into recession.

[speechlesstx]

Yes, becaue they will be no WORSE off for sure!!

Ah, so you admit it's just for show.

LOL, If a .05% tax increase on the top 2% can fund a million jobs to fix roads and bridges, imagine what 4% can do! Revenue + smart spending cuts = jobs and paying the debt.

And we've seen how efficient government is at "creating" jobs. The CBO estimated last year that every job "saved or created" cost the taxpayers $228,055 per job. At that rate, to create a million jobs would cost $228 billion. His tax the rich scheme will only raise $824 billion - over ten years. Do some of that math you guys keep talking about, we can do a lot better with a quarter million dollars to create jobs than he can. .

[excon]

Hello again, Steve:

Ah, so you admit it's just for show.

Sure. Nobody ever said it was going to cure our financial ills. But, just like the 47% paying NO taxes pisses you off, the 2% paying VERY LITTLE taxes pisses ME off. You DO understand, that, don't you?

Let me ask you the same question. You don't think, do you, that taxing the POOR is anything but show, do you?? Do you REALLY think that's going to help?? Oh, it'll make you FEEL better... So, why can't I feel better too?? We WON the election after all...

Excon

[speechlesstx]

Hello again, Steve:

Sure. Nobody ever said it was going to cure our financial ills. But, just like the 47% paying NO taxes pisses you off, the 2% paying VERY LITTLE taxes pisses ME off. You DO understand, that, don't you??

Let me ask you the same question. You don't think, do you, that taxing the POOR is anything but show, do you??? Do you REALLY think that's gonna help??? Oh, it'll make you FEEL better... So, why can't I feel better too??? We WON the election after all...

excon

You wanted to win so you could feel better? That's no surprise, I've been saying for years that liberals weren't about solutions, they just want to feel good about themselves. Me, I like solutions.

P.S. I don't talk about taxing the poor, we can't afford to expand the welfare class intentionally. That's more of that math you keep talking about.