[speechlesstx]

Good to know you libs care nothing about the rule of law, not to mention helping a family get answers on why their son is dead.

[excon]

Good to know you libs care nothing about the rule of law, not to mention helping a family get answers on why their son is dead.

Hello again, Steve:

Slow down, podner...

IF getting answers for the family was Issa's objective, you'd think he'd call the head of ATF to ask him WHY he did that crap. You'd think he'd subpoena the previous Attorney General who was running the show WHEN the program called Fast and Furious started... You'd THINK he'd call the head of the Phoenix office of the ATF who, on his OWN, ran this program...

But, he DIDN'T. He's not interested in what they have to say. Now I don't know about you, but to me it's OBVIOUS what his intention is.. At least, it's obvious to SOME of us. The rest want to believe the conspiracy promulgated by FOX News.

Bwa, ha ha ha.

excon

[speechlesstx]

You must have missed the part where Holder retracted his statement blaming Mukasey. Nice try but that blame Bush thing has already been blown out of the water by Holder himself.

Oh, and Melson testified to Congress under a deal. You forget that he wanted to testify before the committee but Holder did not want that to happen.

Next excuse?

[excon]

You forget that he wanted to testify before the committee but Holder did not want that to happen.

Next excuse?

Hello again, Steve:

So, you think Holder controls who is called to testify?? Really?

excon

[tomder55]

I don't know how this OP became about Fast And Furious . But since its here now ,then I want to correct something I've read twice already... the fallacy that Fast And Furious began under the Bush Adm. Not so.

There was a program under the Bush called, Operation Wide Receiver. Operation Wide Receiver was run out of Tucson, AZ, between 2006 and 2007.300-500 guns were sold. In Operation Fast and Furious, 7x as many weapons were placed into the hands of the cartels in an operation done without the Mexican Government's knowledge.

Operation Wide Receiver was a controlled delivery of guns in cooperation with the Mexican Government with the sole purpose of tracking the guns. In a controlled delivery, law enforcement watches to see that their target goes through the steps of a crime, to see intent, and then interdict the guns and make an arrest. ATF put actual tracking devices in the guns. As Operation Wide Receiver was done in coordination with the Mexican Government, Mexican law enforcement officials were supposed to be waiting on their side of the border to interdict and make arrests; but in some cases they failed to do so.
Unfortunately, since Mexican law enforcement failed to interdict all the weapons, the batteries on some of the tracking devices later died and the ATF lost the ability to track the weapons. The program was later shut down long before Fast And Furious began..

So no, Operation Fast and Furious did NOT begin under the Bush Administration. The deaths of Border Agent Brian Terry and ICE Agent Jaime Zapata are not traceable in any way to Operation Wide Receiver.

[paraclete]

It doesn't matter how you play it this was snafu and this sort of thinking is snafu and the Committee has the right to investigate and find out how it became so messed up

[tomder55]

it doesn't matter how you play it this was snafu and this sort of thinking is snafu and the Committee has the right to investigate and find out how it became so messed up

Yup . The real problem is the cover-up led by the chief law enforcement officer of the nation. Let's see what happens if the House charges him with contempt . Will he turn himself in ? Who will enforce their charge ?

We had a similar potential constitutional crisis during Watergate . If Nixon refused to comply with the court order to turn over the White House tapes , it could've gotten dicey.

[speechlesstx]

You don't think most lawyers are snakes? I never used the word "control," I said "Holder did not want that to happen." Stalling, he's been stalling all along quite obviously and the part about Melson was right there in the article:

According to sources close to the investigation, ATF Acting Direction Ken Melson had previously wanted to testify before the oversight committees but Justice Department officials sought to delay his testimony.

And that's part of his testimony:

The acting head of the ATF voluntarily appeared before two congressional oversight committees and revealed that senior Justice Department officials tried to limit his communications with Congress about an investigation into a controversial ATF program known as "Fast and Furious," according to a letter from the heads of two oversight committees.

Are you going to retract your previous erroneous statements like Holder or are you just gust going to stall and hold up shiny things like Holder the administration does?

[speechlesstx]

I don't know how this OP became about Fast And Furious .

Sorry, that was me via Pelosi's lunatic ravings.

[excon]

Hello again,

The Democrats COULD have provoked a Constitutional crisis when Bush covered up for Karl Rove, and Josh Bolton... But, they didn't. They KNOW that a Constitutional crisis should be reserved for times when REAL crooks like Nixon, are actually endangering the Republic.

The Republicans don't know that. In fact, they actually LIKE playing chicken with our country.. I don't know why.

excon

[speechlesstx]

You think Obama's first amendment destroying contraceptive mandate is a good thing and you accuse us of playing chicken with the country?

[tomder55]

The Democrats COULD have provoked a Constitutional crisis when Bush covered up for Karl Rove, and Josh Bolton... But, they didn't.

They would've lost in court. Rove and Bolton were NOT officers of the Administration confirmed by Congress like the AG is . The President used executive privilege because they ,as his closest advisers ,were giving the President personal council . That is historically a recognized implied power of the Presidency.A power I fully agree with when it is used properly.
However ,the President is not protecting either personal communications (unless he was personally involved ) ,or national secrets . He is covering for the chief law enforcement officer of the land who is stonewalling on a reasonable request.
The question you should be asking is ;why didn't Bush use executive privilege when Alberto Gonzalez testified ? Because it wasn't proper for him to use it there .

The Republicans are not issuing this contempt charge lightly .