[FloridaFisher]

Can making every effort to continue to speed up this custody thing(even though she makes no effort to do so) show a deed or action? I need some brainstorming activities. What is it I can do to lessen tension and give a positive vibe to her? What will intrigue and bring out the curiosity and her own "what-if's"?

I won't ask her again about the hangout out and having fun when she comes down. I'll just make an effort to do it when she comes down. She hates being stuck places.. specially at her dad's. I'll lower the defense by getting her out to perhaps shop for clothes for our son at the mall or something neutral. She'll have her son and that'll also lower tension. I can make her laugh and show her that I'm making efforts to change who I was becoming. How's that sound? I can probably DO all of these without SAYING anything. Subtle. Will this friendzone me or backfire?

[talaniman]

QUOTE by FloridaFisher;
I kind of get what you're saying.. I'm not sure how to guideline myself though. What kind of action or deed would this be? The actual making of guidelines?
Please, an example? Sorry, my brains far too gone right this moment to think.

Guide line are like personal boundaries of good behavior. Like a code of conduct,that you hold yourself to based on your own value. Rules you stick to as a testament to yourself. The knights of the round table, or chivalry, or Klingon's and there warrior creed.

What do you make of her MSN thing? I know I'm over analyzing, but doesn't it clearly show you the same it shows me? She says she has no feelings of us yet cries inside when we hang up?

Pushing your buttons because she knows she can, confusion is a tactic.

I guess feelings and words aren't helping, even though I feel as though I'm getting somewhere when I push her like that. I need a plan of action.. I love plans.. I have no bearing.. I feel like I need to act or do something. I do not like sitting and letting everything just happen. I feel that if someone like her walks out of your life you should take charge and gather information as to why and use it in a plan of strategy to show her you really meant what you're saying. Proof so to speak. I know it sounds corny, but it's how I operate.

Adjust your thinking and leave her alone to come to her own conclusions, at her own pace and wonder about what you're doing for a change

I do know these things:
- I have to get past this defense of her. I'm guessing by lowering it gently without her being aware. However, I need to stay aware of the friend zone thing.

That's a game you lose, just because she pays closer attention to you, and this is her game to play. That's why she can push your buttons without effort. Don't play the game, do nothing but handle your own business.

- Show her the truth! We both love the same things and want the same things.

Then your tactics are lousy, or you have deluded yourself, because she ain't co operating, is she?

- Show her the changes that I've spoken of so that she knows everything she ever asked for from our relationship is here.

AARGH, it takes years to change, and even longer for someone to see it. Even harder to prove since she ain't their, and really doesn't want to be there. That's why she left.
-

Separate her from the people talking trash in GA.

More of what you want, and not what she wants. She will not allow you to isolate her. That's why she left. Even you have to see this whole thing is about doing it your way and fail to see why see is having none of it.

Only problem.. How? I mean it's got to be do-able. I don't know as much as most of you on women's habits, but I'm doing my best to learn.

And dropping the ball as you learn. The secret to females is they are equal human beings, and use what the lack in size and power to protect themselves and fight back when attacked. That's the whole secret, so UNDERESTIMATE them at your peril. A lesson you should have known, so you can listen, as well as talk.

How do I show action and deeds when she's living so far away and I'll see her once for 5 minutes every 3 weeks? I mean.. am I supposed to just show up up there and take her on a date and surprise her? I'm working on subtle dates when she comes to FL. Hopefully I'll have my vehicle by then and I can take us out as a family and with alone time.. Something which we never had as a couple ever.

Stop trying to get her back, and handle your own business without her.

Bouncing this NC and this want to not let go of someone and something so great and I need to figure out which one is the better bet to follow through with. Original says NC as does Wish, but knowing what I've said.. does it make a difference or no?

I go with the guys who have been there done that, and No Contact does work, to let you heal, gain perspective, and THEN you make better decisions based on FACTS, and not just feelings. Then you won't be confused or so emotionally BLIND!

[talaniman]

Can making every effort to continue to speed up this custody thing(even though she makes no effort to do so) show a deed or action? I need some brainstorming activities. What is it I can do to lessen tension and give a positive vibe to her? What will intrigue and bring out the curiosity and her own "what-if's"?

I won't ask her again about the hangout out and having fun when she comes down. I'll just make an effort to do it when she comes down. She hates being stuck places.. specially at her dad's. I'll lower the defense by getting her out to perhaps shop for clothes for our son at the mall or something neutral. She'll have her son and that'll also lower tension. I can make her laugh and show her that I'm making efforts to change who I was becoming. How's that sound? I can probably DO all of these without SAYING anything. Subtle. Will this friendzone me or backfire?

No comment to takeover plots.

[FloridaFisher]

I just got off the phone with her. I didn't mention shopping at the mall when she comes down.. even admitted it was to get out as a family and see if we can even get along. She said she'll think about it and she'll be down for at least a week. This sucks.. I should know better by now.. I did, however, put our son on the phone to let her talk to him and so forth which I'm not sure why she still has that tone of voice even when speaking to him. You know, she admits to having nothing to do all day, yet.. she's not willing to give up NOTHING in return for her FAMILY. I'll let it go and perhaps cross the going to the mall thing when she gets here.

I told her the picture comments about the other girl was just crap talk. Told her it meant nothing and they're just lose feelings I have for her, and she's the only important girl in my life.

Very short call mainly about custody. She's in agreement but then brought up the subject of her wanting to live in GA. I told her it's a really stupid choice and I can't tell her what to do but that she's clearly not putting her son first. I told her I'd move to GA in a heartbeat to get to see him more often, share holidays, and when school comes we don't have to fight about residential custody and so on. I told her it's really her call and her life and I would feel the same if she saw me not putting him first. I said I hope that if I stop thinking that way for any reason to tell me. Said it's her call in the end. She said she'd think about it.

She'll be in Florida Saturday which means next week is when custody disputes will be over with and she'll begin her custody time.

Honestly, yeah I'd love for her to live closer anyway, but this is about many different things. Emergencies, holidays, birthdays, money to travel(insurance goes up, gas money, maintenance), school time, friends & family, seeing him more often then once a month almost. Also, I know for a fact that her soon to be step father smokes weed, drinks a case daily, and does it while driving with kids in the car. Seriously, it's just not a good environment. I spent a lot of time trying to keep him away from that sort of stuff. He went away for 2 1/2 weeks to visit up there and came back throwing fits, hitting, biting, and just acting really bad. I have to fix this every time! She doesn't have to allow me to isolate.. I can chose to do it at my will.. I'm just not that big of an a-hole. I am worried for my son's sake though and I'm worried if I do use this that she's going to hate me even more. I mean I don't want him in a house with weed and alcoholics, her uncle who visits is hooked on crack and is currently dating his niece, the alcoholics father is a cross dresser, her mother is a drama causing queen, her one brother is partially mentally retarded and tried to molest/rape my ex when she was a child, and the guy she's talking about is 16 years old and still not even divorced yet. I fought hard to keep him out of that mess.. him and her both. I don't want to be a jerk, but if she doesn't come to her senses I might just have to so he's not riding in the car with him or living in that house with those people(which I warned her about all this long before we broke up).

I left it at that and told her I'd let her go and let her say bye to our son.

I didn't mention her MSN thing being that she doesn't know I can see her (it's setup so she can't see mine but I can see hers). Why it's like that.. I haven't the slightest clue.

Lol @ no comment on takeover plots. I understand.. Just a subtle idea that I thought might work.

Yeah, I'm back to NC after tonight. I've said my peace. Like I said, I'll just see what happens when she gets down here, depending if we've made progress at all, and cross that bridge when I get to it. I believe in NC, but I know she's also very stubborn and when she puts something in her head she sticks to it. Right now, that something is her making herself void of feelings and angry towards me. The longer this goes unsolved the more harsh it'll become I fear..

Day one begins tomorrow. Let's see what happens.

Thinking about depression meds now, but I hate vices and I know I do well without them. I know they can help in a rough situation, but I don't need a withdraw issue later on. I've already got that with stopping smoking. Lol..

Everything's a mess.. I need some order in my life.. Guidelines might just be it. Thanks, Tal.

[FloridaFisher]

OMG it just totally hit me.. ALL all my options are open now! This IS where I learn to be who I am again. This is where I learn what I want out of life and I can try things for a taste to see if I like it without worrying.. Man I wish I could join the services like Original. Always wanted to do that but I cannot have a firearm due to the felony.

This part gets me super excited! I don't know why! I love her and miss her and would chose her in a heartbeat, but I love options! I haven't had options in about 3 years now!

I plan to lay off dating and just have a good time and find my place in this world. I've wandered around lost for a long time worrying. I want to know where I belong! I want that confidence that original, sneezey, and all the others I read about have! I want to be my own person for once!

Crap.. Where do I start?

[FloridaFisher]

Well.. I've gathered more evidence and now I have enough to show in court to guarantee full custody.. and possibly have her drug tested and mentally evaluated..

If she's really being this mentally unstable and smoking weed now I don't want him there PERIOD. I plan to go ahead to use it in court. This is ridiculous!

[FloridaFisher]

I feel as though she's changing.. not sure why.. I love her how she is, but what she's becoming worries me. I know she;s no longer my problem, but the things I've read and seen lately scare me. I would give my life to protect her. I'm worried for her badly even though she's treating me like complete crap. I can still tell she has feelings which says something isn't right.. I see she's blocking her own family members on social sites/programs. She's writing really dark and f'd up things. I know she's her own dragon, but I still want to be the knight to save her from these things as stupid as that sounds. I love her very much.. always will.. I don't get what's happening. I really want to try to show her a better life when she comes down and I have my vehicle finally. My son has to be around his mother when she's like this is scaring the **** out of me. I can see she's really a wreck.. even if it is just attention these are really serious things. I'm afraid to hurt her now. I'm afraid of where she'll end up. I plan to continue NC for now.. and I'll see what happens about trying to get her to hang out a little bit. I don't want her to do these things to her life or our sons life. I know this path I'm seeing.. I've watched my last ex go down it. Good grades, college coming, head cheerleader, lots of friends.. When we broke up she went wild. Lost her friends, dropped out, left he college plans, did drugs, became a stripper, and now goes out and hoes around and cheated on her boyfriend after me for a pack of smokes. I see this coming again, I've seen what happens. I know I'm technically better off without her if she's going to turn into this, but I know she has a lot of potential and I don't want to see her throw her life away. This hurts the same amount as the break up itself. Man, I'm really tired of feeling this way, you know?

NC for now. I got out what I needed to say. I've seen plenty enough right now and I don't want her to know I know these things in case I do need them in court. Trying to be responsible about this, but loving her and feelings are clouding my judgment.. obviously..

[amicon]

Start thinking with your head instead of your heart.

Again-NC-unless it has to do with the custody issue.

As for whatever 'evidence' you have found,you should leave that up to your legal representative to handle.

[the_original]

Stick with NC... you have to KNOW its going to be difficult at first and prepare for it. Honestly man, I know how you feel. You want to show her things can be different, that you can change, trust me I have been there. Did it for months. It does not matter to them whatsoever. Right now dude, she does not deserve your reassurance or comfort. Exes are exes. They don't get to find out what's new in our lifes and how we are doing, they don't get to call to hang out, and they don't get to play with your emotions anymore. Your one post was perfect-this is the time to find out who you really are! Find out what you like in life, and just focus on yourself. After a few weeks/months, it is possible you will be able to look back on this whole thing and realize that "gee, maybe this relationship wasnt perfect". It is a bit different with a kid involved, but you sound like a great father, and if she can get her act together and be a great mother, than broken home or not your child will turn out just fine.

Man let her come to you about hanging out. You have to fake it at this point. She knows your down and weak right now, and will play on that as much as she can. Tal is right, it is the way they fight... and its dirty.

I remember my first day of NC a few weeks back... I was so afraid that I would never hear from her again, never see her again etc. But I stuck to it, because I could tell day by day, by the tiniest pieces I was getting better. 1 1/2 weeks went by and she started trying to get ahold of me. A lot of exes do this, and by than you don't even want the attention from them. I ignored all of her attempts, not because I don't love her or not even because I wouldn't consider getting back... just because you get so sick and tired of having your heartbroken. Stick to NC man... remember this, harder on you, easier on her. Not what your primary focus needs to be right now.

[FloridaFisher]

Thanks for those words of encouragement. Sometimes I feel like I can't do NC and sometimes I feel like it's for the better.

You're right, original and amicon, I do need NC.. It shows in my posts, now that I've re-read them to myself, that I'm clearly thinking 90% with the heart. I need this pretty badly. I'm somewhat ashamed of how I've handled all this. Just fell in love with my family and was kind of put into shock when I lost them I guess. I've always been a logical thinker, but a big hearted one.

You also right on the fact that she lost the right to my life and feelings when she left me. I've been acting like it was my fault she walked out. I messed up, but she chose to not stick around and try to work things out.

I too have that feeling of never hearing from her or having her in my life outside of our son's custody. I feel as though since I know she's stubborn that I'd have to initiate anything.

I started a list last night which seemed to help pretty well when I was breaking down about to break NC. This list was all of the things she did that hurt me. Each one was like a reason in it's own not to call her or message her. Try it man.. It's a real life savor.

Is it wrong to still use her return as motivation to get my act together despite it being a false hope? I want to build a new life with a stronger structure and I'm afraid this may collapse down the line, but I currently have no motivation to get anywhere. These two have been my happiness for the past 2 and a half years.

Yeah, I really want this to hit her. It's her turn to face reality as well, and I for sure am not going to comfort her when all she does is hang up on me when I need her.

Man, I wish everyone from AMHD lived in Florida. Lol

How are you doing?

[FloridaFisher]

I need opinions.

Can she really be OK with losing me forever? Does the special times we shared and the love we shared really mean nothing to her anymore?

I know you don't know for sure, but based on what I've said throughout my posts.. what do you think? How do you think she's feeling about all this and does she really not care? How come she doesn't want to talk to me at all anymore?

I sat and wrote her a probably 6-8 letters over two weeks.. Some before she ended it for good and the rest after the fact. I even sent two pictures with them. She said she read 2 of the letters then put it all away. Before, when this all fist went down I admittedly logged into her Facebook and myspace and seen that she hadn't read most of what I sent. She hasn't replied to anything and never comments on them when talking to me on the phone. What's the deal?

[talaniman]

She is shutting you out. Whatever you shared before is over, and her plans and yours, do not match any more.

She doesn't have to worry about losing you forever because you have a child together and if you quit pushing your agenda so hard, she may co operate better and be more civil.

I had a good friend who divorced his wife when we were in our twenties. Kind of messy with a house and a kid. They shared custody though, and got along better than when they were married, and remarried about eight years later, weird I was at both wedding ceremonies. My point, we never know what's going to happen down the road. But we do know what's happening now, and we just have to make the best of it by adjusting to it the best way we can.

You can't knock down a brick wall by running head first at full speed. That's what I see you doing, and can imagine your frustration, and heartache at, seeing that brick wall still standing, and your head hurting.

Every one knows that you find a door, or get a ladder to conquer that break wall. In other words, back off and get a better plan, or buy some band aids and aspirin. Up to you.

[FloridaFisher]

Wow.. I feel you, Tal..

You're right.. obviously none of these plans are working right now.. I think a new plan that calls for no plans is in order as far as her and I go. Time to be me.. It's what I do best.. She loved what she saw once, I do believe she could love it again, but like you said.. not right now. It obviously won't happen anytime soon when she's doing everything she can (even fighting herself) to push me out (still unsure why.. but h*ll.. does it matter if I can't stop it?). I know what I did wrong and I plan to change all of that, but still remain true to myself.

It's not a subtle approach I need.. It's no approach. It's all I can do.. You're absolutely right! I'm doing everything I can to get through this wall when there currently is no way through it or over it. And yes, it does hurt every time I make a failed attempt, but now I see that attempting to be with her while she pushes away is ludicrous. I mean it rationally makes no sense and is literally impossible.

There's still a lot left unsaid I think is why I annoyed her with calls, messages, and letters.. I mean.. I had a weekend at first to figure out everything she had known long before then had to say goodbye 6 hours later. I was just sort of blown away and I'm honestly still in a bit of shock. I think this explains all my venting as well. The feeling of needing to be heard hoping to catch an ear/eye that wants to hear it and that understands. Unfortunately, the main person I wanted to hear/see it ignored it.

I really do plan on reserving a spot for her to possibly work things out between us some day, but I can't make it the only spot available. When I told her I loved her always and forever, I meant it and I don't wish to take it back even still. There's something special about that girl.. So special she broke me of my fears of commitment and long term relationships. I'm always going to be thankful for having been with her even though I still think it would have worked out had she never left. I have no regrets other then wishing I had fixed these issues sooner. I'll always root for my family to be back together.

I plan to go through with this settlement out of court. However, I will be keeping my evidence and so forth just in case I don't like what I'm seeing when my son goes there. I'm also still trying to talk her into moving down here to her dad's because they honestly care about her and want her to do great things like I do. I see tons of potential in her and I would hate to see her throw it out over having a good time right now. I still want her to be happy no matter what.


I would now like to have a beer and a fun night out with my friends.
If only I had some friends lol..
Lonely beer sucks..

[FloridaFisher]

Almost done watching Swingers.. Funny movie.. pretty real so far too..

Still hurts.. I know we can't be right now.. I just still don't understand sometimes.. If I'm such a great guy like she says then we did we end.. and why doesn't she want to be with me anymore? Why doesn't she even call? It's one thing if we've grown apart.. but this isn't even that.. We were perfect up until the day she left. It was my fault for being stupid so long and taking things for granted until she just couldn't take it anymore. I don't get why we can't be together if I change the bad ways. I'm still just confused.. whether it's me doing it to myself.. the confusion's still there. Our love is still there, it's just buried under all of our fighting. I don't know how to bring it back, or if time does that on it's own.

Yeah, I get better periodically, but inside I'm still the family man. I don't enjoy life without them. Should I have to grow old and die never being able to have my family because I made a mistake?

[FloridaFisher]

My life was built around her and my son.. so everything in it reminds me of her and f's my day/head up. I really need out of this place, but I have no where to go.

I'm going to take a couple days off here..

[amicon]

Find somewhere to go.

And find it within yourself to focus on you and your child rather than overthinking her possible thoughts,feelings and future actions.

That's futile.
And a waste of time and energy.

[Imabadman]

Amicon had to spread the love but I just wanted to say I'll second your last post... this guy at least needs to TRY to focus your enery else where. Whining is not trying.

[the_original]

Almost done watching Swingers.. Funny movie.. pretty real so far too..

Still hurts.. I know we can't be right now.. I just still don't understand sometimes.. If I'm such a great guy like she says then we did we end.. and why doesn't she wanna be with me anymore? Why doesn't she even call? It's one thing if we've grown apart.. but this isn't even that.. We were perfect up until the day she left. it was my fault for being stupid so long and taking things for granted until she just couldn't take it anymore. I don't get why we can't be together if I change the bad ways. I'm still just confused.. whether or not it's me doing it to myself.. the confusion's still there. Our love is still there, it's just buried under all of our fighting. I don't know how to bring it back, or if time does that on it's own.

Yeah, I get better periodically, but inside I'm still the family man. I don't enjoy life without them. Should I have to grow old and die never being able to have my family because I made a mistake?

Swingers is a great movie... glad you liked it. They don't sugar coat anything-and I like how it doesn't triviliaze the fact that "yea....us guys feel s**t sometimes too".

No matter what they say to us, feelings change, and most of the time, the dumper doesn't even know why themselves. It's hard but it just needs to be accepted. Your not going to grow old and die by yourself-matter of fact you don't know what's going to happen in the future. But my bet is that isn't what's going to happen. You will always have your family... you just can't expect things to be all perfect right now. She is going through whatever feelings/changes she is experiencing, and we as the dumpee have the right to be confused, upset and hurt. But, eventually we also have to accept. This stage is pivotal, and I hope after a few days rest you start to feel better. Let us know how your doing man.

[FloridaFisher]

I do know why is the problem, man. I know it's a what-if type thing, but I know had I figured this out before that we would be fine. I feel like such an jerk for letting my family go over stupid fights. This alone probably shows digression, I know. This isn't like losing a puppy because you left the door open. This is losing your family, your life, because you forgot for a while that they're what mattered most. I do feel like I need to beat myself up over it.

I'm sure she has no clue- why else would she say she doesn't have feelings then contradict that with her actions? Since we've broke up she's: 1) asked mutual friends if they've heard from me and what I've said. 2) searched through my friends and my own pics, profile, comments to find comments stating one girl looks good and the other that I would hang out with her. 3) Puts up these crazy MSN statuses about some pretty crazy emotions. 4) Wanted to possibly try again until I bombarded her with calls and messages. 5) We had sex 30 minutes before she left, cried for a full weekend, and kissed before she got in the car. 6) She contradicts everything she says to me every phone call. 7) Still admits her greatest feelings in life and any relationship were with me even when she was mad.

Tell me I'm insane for seeing her feelings. Tell me why the hell she's hiding them. Why do I have to sit and feel insane over something so obvious? I'd bet anything I own, including my life, on the fact she still has feelings. I can see she's confused, but I know it's because when she showed love I didn't show it back and assumed she'd figure it out. I'm going insane because I'm "running at this brick wall" trying to show her that I did and do love her.

I'm trying to focus on my son, but you have to understand how much he reminds me of her, amicon. I have this crawl in a hole and just lay there feeling. I've not eaten in pretty well 3 days.. 2 days I've had a single glass of water. She was my motivation and happiness- my family was. Now, no matter how hard I try I'll not have her, and only half of my son.. Now what? I run a race that I cannot win merely to do it?

Is it possible to use her as motivation yet still be in a good enough frame of mind to get over her?

Tal, this couple that were married, divorced, then re-married- how did they handle it? NC? Friends? I mean I want her back in 8 years rather then never, but I'd rather have her back sooner of course.

Listen to me.. I'm still sitting here talking about being with her.. I really feel confused, stupid, and somewhat creepy..

Yes, I'm whining. No, I'm not trying to. I want to stop hurting, but I feel like the only thing that's going to stop it is her coming home.

NC continues.

[the_original]

I do know why is the problem, man. I know it's a what-if type thing, but I know had I figured this out before that we would be fine. I feel like such an jerk for letting my family go over stupid fights. This alone probably shows digression, I know. This isn't like loosing a puppy because you left the door open. This is losing your family, your life, because you forgot for a while that they're what mattered most. I do feel like I need to beat myself up over it.

I'm sure she has no clue- why else would she say she doesn't have feelings then contradict that with her actions? Since we've broke up she's: 1) asked mutual friends if they've heard from me and what I've said. 2) searched through my friends and my own pics, profile, comments to find comments stating one girl looks good and the other that I would hang out with her. 3) Puts up these crazy MSN statuses about some pretty crazy emotions. 4) Wanted to possibly try again until I bombarded her with calls and messages. 5) We had sex 30 minutes before she left, cried for a full weekend, and kissed before she got in the car. 6) She contradicts everything she says to me every phone call. 7) Still admits her greatest feelings in life and any relationship were with me even when she was mad.

Tell me I'm insane for seeing her feelings. Tell me why the hell she's hiding them. Why do I have to sit and feel insane over something so obvious? I'd bet anything I own, including my life, on the fact she still has feelings. I can see she's confused, but I know it's because when she showed love I didn't show it back and assumed she'd figure it out. I'm going insane because I'm "running at this brick wall" trying to show her that I did and do love her.

I'm trying to focus on my son, but you have to understand how much he reminds me of her, amicon. I have this crawl in a hole and just lay there feeling. I've not eaten in pretty well 3 days.. 2 days I've had a single glass of water. She was my motivation and happiness- my family was. Now, no matter how hard I try I'll not have her, and only half of my son.. Now what? I run a race that I cannot win merely to do it?

Is it possible to use her as motivation yet still be in a good enough frame of mind to get over her?

Tal, this couple that were married, divorced, then re-married- how did they handle it? NC? Friends? I mean I want her back in 8 years rather then never, but I'd rather have her back sooner of course.

Listen to me.. I'm still sitting here talking about being with her.. I really feel confused, stupid, and somewhat creepy..

Yes, I'm whining. No, I'm not trying to. I want to stop hurting, but I feel like the only thing that's gonna stop it is her coming home.

NC continues.

No matter how many times she contradicts her actions, and no matter what second hand information she collects- you need to stop trying to figure it out. It's impossible dude. Never mind the fact that she's a woman and they themselves are like rubicks cubes to figure out, the dumper half the time doesn't know if they made the right decision, and why they made the decision they made. The only thing you can do is take a respectful absence from her life, that and time is your only hope my friend if you truly want to fight for her back. You know the saying if you love something let it go, and if it was truly yours it will come back? I think you should just let it go man, and give you and her the time to heal and get your stuff together. I know its hard looking at her spitting image everyday in your son, but enough time goes by and it won't be like that.

Whining is OK, your allowed to be hurt. Just don't break the NC. Respect her wishes and let her deal with her own demons.