[Jake2008]

It is not a matter of what you have done so much, as it is a situation that still has not resolved itself.

* You accepted smoking- you had no choice, smoking is her call.

* Accepted a relationship with another man. What have you done to accept it, just given up?

* Stopping all suspicious behaviour on your part is not the same thing as asking obvious questions, such as drinks in the backyard, late night dog walks to meet up with him, late night texts...

* You have stopped asking questions in a probing and accusational way you say, so does that mean you are asking questions in a different way, or have you given up until the next time it blows up.

* You should not have to look for reassurance and love, it should be right there, frequently, with no doubt about it. You have good reason to be insecure.

* Arguing while under the influence is never a good idea.

* Six months to get a message across to your wife that your marriage is important (if I'm reading that right), and you are still not getting through.

Accepting it is entirely up to you, and how you handle it, justify it, and explain it away, is entirely up to you also. All you will get from me is an opinion.

For what its worth, in my opinion, you have given up. I don't see you going to counselling, or both of you going to counselling, or your wife trying to curb her attachment to the neighbourhood guy. So be it.

If you have a reached this point, and are comfortable with it, more power to you.

I know I would not have tolerated any of her behaviour more than once.

[Gemini54]

I don't know if you've given up inasmuch as you've got a form Stockholm Syndrome and that you've become numbed to the goings on. You do seem to have reluctantly accepted the status quo and your wife is the one advantaged by this numb acceptance.

However, you're still empty and unhappy - that's why with a little help from a few beers the frustrated words tumbled out of your mouth.

You're at an impasse really - your wife won't give up stay-at-home-dad and you're afraid to assert yourself in case it all goes pear shaped.

I think you have every right to be annoyed and angry. Sure, there are better ways to express it than a drunken rave, but essentially you're being emasculated by your wife and stay-at-home-dad, and you know it.

But, it could be that stay-at-home-dad's wife is less accepting than you are. (I have to ask - WHY would stay-at-home-dad text your wife at 12:15 in the morning - what couldn't wait until breakfast? ) Sometimes change comes from unexpected quarters.

Having said all that - it does seem as if you are not your wife's priority. She has spent a lot of time defending her attachment to him. It is up to you, as Jake says, to decide if you can live with this and be comfortable with the status quo.

[bigblack]

I don't think that you are out of line by questioning your wife's friendship with the married male. I may be wrong, but I don't get the impression that she has been cheating with him... if she were, I think a little more information would be hidden from you, and that just doesn't seem to be the case (I may be wrong, I just don't get the feeling she is... at least physically).

Anyhow... I really loved Jake's response. What I'd like you to examine for yourself is the behaviour's you can change and the ones you have no control over. And I commend you over excepting those behaviours you cannot change (ie: her smoking, her 'friendships'). But can I ask you if you're really doing all you can do to become closer to your wife? Can you give her the honest time and effort and genuity of interest in her that she may be seeking in her married friend? I'm not trying to insult you, but this is the area that hit a chord with me. Married women with children can be LONELY. Even if you think you are right there, she may need the reassurance that she can trust you again to share her inner-most feelings without being judged. To intrinsically know that you are her #1 best friend and that you are behind her all the way (this is where the non-judgemental smoking partner comes into play... seriously... and your non-judgemental opinion about her best friend, whether male or female - as a side, I think her best friend has come to be a matter of greater convenience than anything else... again, that's just my thoughts over what I've previously read. I mean, a lover of your wife would never spend hours debating a relationship with your wife... he run away almost immediately... just my intuition).

Overall, I think that you are very sensitive in noticing the things that are important to your wife in her life. Honestly, that's a very good thing. But I think you need to inject yourself into her life more, so that she trusts, and confides in you more (especially more than the friend). I wish you so well.

[Ramesees]

Its been quite a while since I posted last:
Htttp://www.askmehelpdesk.com/marriage/getting-but-wife-shows-little-love-emotion-am-wrong-410550.html

Background, together 20 years, married 15, 2 kids 12 & 8. Has a really bad period early in 2009 and have been working at the relationship since (in the post above).

Things seemed to be progressively improve, the odd bump in the road would come along, the odd history related argument. I have though always struggled with the amount of time my wife continues to invest in her male friend, but largely we managed around this.

I really fell back in love my wife through lot of effort and acceptance as to whom we both are. Just recently though the continued lack of engagement, emotion, need and effort from my wife towards me has become more of an issue, I feel like I work hard, come home at night, work hard on making 'us' work, then have no relationship to speak of.

So over the last week, we have had calm discussions where I asked her to be honest and consider how she feels about 'us', that has now manifested itself in her asking for space and time away from me and she asked me to leave for a while. I did that yesterday.

We met this morning and in her words told me she has been trying to pretend for the last year that she loves me and things are OK and that she is not sure she can ever love me again, devastated. She feels very damaged due to the 2009 events and described herself as feeling cold and distant from me in her heart.

I actually do understand much of what she says and what makes her feel this way, it makes total sense of my frustrations of lack of emotion, engagement and 'love' I feel.

The question is, what to do know. She says she needs time to work her own feelings out, without me, something I am giving her, 2nd night in a motel 6 for me. I just don't see how and when she will get there and am quite frankly of the belief she really has her mind set that she cannot be 'fixed' (her words).

I love her more now than ever before and it was so hard to hear, I don't love you as a wife, I just don't know, do I just give her all the time she asks for, do I try to influence it, I genuinely want her to decide she wants to be with me on her own, not because I pressure it, but am very worried where this ends up.

I have asked for over a year for us get marriage guidance/counseling and she will not go, I asked her again this week after this, NO.

[Ramesees]

Ok so some history, (I have posted in the past some issues, last time I did it got merged couldn't find it again, so not sure if this can stay as a new thread, mods?)

Some background:
- Married 15 years, together 20, 2 kids.
- Moved to a different country 2 years ago.
- Grown apart over time, including prior to moving country.
- Wife became 'best friends' with a male neighbor, caused lots of issues.

I recognized that we had problems for a while and about 18 months ago started to attempt to work things out.

For about a year now, I have been working on 'Us' believing (although looking now I can see not) that my wife was doing the same.

About 2 months ago, everything came to a head, I was away for a week, got back and my wife was cold, distant and not they're for me. So I raised with her and asked in as non confrontational way as I could, does she want to be with me. She finally after all this time said she doesn't know.

So I left the house for a few days, at her request, then we talked for the first time in years, where she actually opened up, in summary she said:
- I love you, but am not sure I am in love with you.
- I have been pretending for the last year.
- I can see you have been trying so hard, but I have not.
- I feel cold towards you

So over the last couple of months we have been through some difficult times.
- She decided she wanted to make it work.
- She has put the 'best friend' friendship where it needs to be, she actually admitted she knows it was wrong and affecting us.
- She is clearly trying in certain areas.

BUT, she still is distant to me, doesn't ever engage in conversation on 'serious' topics and will not discuss our progress at all. Just says you are always going on about things. No physical contact in 2 months (the one thing we did have before was a relatively healthy sex life), no more, she pushes me away even from just kisses.

When I ask and she does open up a bit, she says she needs time to work her own mind out about what she feels for me.

I can see she is trying, I know she has great great difficulty dealing with issues, her personality type is to ignore the issues, they will go away. She says she wants to make it work, she wants to 'be in love with me'.

So my question (eventually). I am getting very frustrated and I want to talk with her about things, she will not and as a result I have had mini blow ups (nothing more than rants). She now says these are a source of issue for her. So we move forward, I get frustrated with lack of progress(and no sex to be honest) and then that is stated as a reason for not moving forward?

What do I do, I am trying to ignore it, not raise it, be normal etc, but I cannot as it is eating me up, we seem so close to being sorted, but so far away.

[CheffreyGriffin]

I recently broke up with my Fiancé, we were together for 6 years, engaged for 1.5. I felt the same things that your wife says she feels. (love, but not In love, "pretending", not trying). It has been a month, and we both agree that the split was the right decision. While we could have given it everything and stayed together, sometimes the best thing to do is call it what it is. People grow apart. We had a clean separation, have remained friends, and still have each other to talk to if needed, while we live our own separate lives. I think that it was better we realized this before we went too far, and its best to let yourself move on, rather than stress your life away trying to fix something that's too far gone. In my opinion, from what you have told us, your wife has already let you go. You shouldn't hate her for it, as I can promise you that we cannot control what we feel. She may want to love you, but emotions are not something that we choose. I know that this is not what you want to hear, but maybe she is only still with you because although she is not "in love" with you, she still "loves" you enough not to break your heart, and she is willing to live a life that she doesn't want (pretending) in order to make you happy. This sacrifice could be what is causing the "coldness" she exhibits, because she knows that you know she isn't happy, and you let her live that way. I hope this helps you to see things in a new light, and do what you need to do to work it out or to let it go.
Good luck my friend,
Jeff

[Wondergirl]

Is couples counseling a possibility? This would be good for both of you whether you decide to stay together or end up separating.

[answerme_tender]

Okay so I looked back at your other post---did you try any of the suggestions? Have you tried to get any type of counseling? If she didn't want to go have you tried to get some on your own?

Instead of telling us how frustrated you are, why not tell us what you have tried to accomplish since your last post. That way we aren't repeating ourselves.

In regards to the "No Sex" situtuation, that is the result of a woman not even able to fake it. Obviously her feelings are not involved at ALL and there for she cannot bring herself to fake it. I am not trying to be harsh here, but you need to understand that if it has gotten to this point, why are you still trying to sail this ship that SANK awhile back.

When are you going to decide enough is enough?

[Ramesees]

Have been though rationalizing growing apart and tried to discuss this, said if this is the case then we should move on, she sticks to the position that she wants things to work. Maybe she cannot comprehend dealing with the outcome of that choice

[Ramesees]

No chance of counseling, straight out refuses, have suggested now for years in many ways.

[Ramesees]

Mmm, answerme_tender, from previous suggestions:
Yes I have had some individual counseling that has helped me is some ways, but hasn't answered my current questions, hence the latest posts.

Ok, accomplishments since previous posts:
- Stood up to the stay home dad situation, as I wasn't happy with it, to coin my friend's phrase, I took my balls back out of the jar. This has benefited us.
- I looked at myself and who I was towards my wife, to ensure I fill gaps, I am more available, understanding, engaged etc.
- Finally got my wife to open up, yes I stood up even though I feared it all going 'pear shaped', and it did obviously.

Sailing a ship that SANK, maybe I am. However, there have been signs of effort, signs of improvements in certain areas, that give me hope. I don't know when the light went out for my wife, but it probably took a long while for that to happen. I continue sailing, for a while yet, in the hope that time will help.

I continue for a couple of reasons,
1) Me!
2) Our children
3) My wife. It may not be my place, my responsibility, my concern or ultimately my business if she decides that. But I do not feel she is thinking straight, that may be considered as arrogant that I would know better than her, maybe it is and I am wrong, but I know her better than anyone and she isn't thinking straight, I now know that the stay home dad was toxic and poisoned her views on many things, her thinking feels like someone's else's if you can understand that.

I can see all the points and its hard to articulate when so much has happened. My counsel and her best female friend are telling me, chill, hold tight, it will work out, just don't keep pushing, raising things etc.

So any ideas how to stem frustrations that have been building for 18 months.

[Wondergirl]

No chance of counseling, straight out refuses, have suggested now for years in many ways.

Then YOU go! Continue to go -- get more done and get the current stuff dealt with.

[Rose2010]

You sound like a really nice guy, but I am afraid that by pushing your wife to deal with her coldness everyday is pushing her away. Can you try instead to focus on you and your kids. When she is left alone and sees how full you can make your life without her, maybe she will choose to be a part of that picture. Maybe she won't, but hopefully you will be okay with her letting go. It seems like you have been trying for a long time and must be feeling a lot of resentment. You can't change your wife's temperament. All you can do is work on yourself and nurturing relationships with others, especially your children.

[answerme_tender]

Ramesees,

Honestly, I would continue working on what you can improve, and that is just YOU. Unfortuantely you have no control over your wife, and no matter how hard you work to fix everything for her, you still cannot help HER. Each of you only have control of your own eventually happiness in life. Yes, both of you can strive for the same goal, but if you BOTH don't put in the same amount of effort, then the it still comes down to just one doing all the work to improve, and the other standing on side lines looking in. When someone in just standing and looking in, when they put up their hand all they are going to feel is a cold window unless they make the choice to actually open the door walk in and participate.

Also from just another point of view, have you considered that your wife is going through depression. She made a choice to stay with the marriage, and yes she said wanted to work it out, but she is still going through her own personal loss and mourning that loss. I know you might not want to hear this, but that could be why she doesn't want you touching her or wanting to do anything to improve the issues of the marriage. If that be the case, I don't know how long it will be when she will feel like moving on with the marriage. But everyone handles loss differently.

I am impressed on the effort you are tryingt to put forth to make things work out for you marriage. But I agree, you need to continue counseling for yourself, and tell the counselor what is going on at home, get suggestions on how to proceed. Your wife's friends are a good comfort source, but still go to counselor. Good luck

[talaniman]

Comes a time in this relationship you need to stop trying to fix things, and work on yourself. That also gives your wife the space to work on herself. You are frustrated that your fixes have not helped you, and have actually created more problems than they have solved. She has issues for sure, but your solutions have not worked for her and you either have they?

Step back for a while and let those frustrations go by focusing entirely on your kids and NOT the marriage. Sorry for merging all your posts together here, but maybe you should re read them and see where your frustrations are really coming from and that is a lack of confidence in your wife that has you trying to fix HER, and made worse by the how you go about it. Sharing your fears and frustrations with your friends is a lousy idea, and acting on those fears and frustrations has done nothing bu build a rather high wall between you.

A very fresh start is what's needed, and that requires a lot of space between the two of you. I do mean a lot. That's the only way as I see it that the emotional dust that you both have kicked up over the last year and a half will ever settle enough for you both to breathe and decide what you want as individuals, and later as a couple.

That's why my suggestion to focus only on the kids, and there issues is what's important, and should be the only priority at this time. Let the rest of the crap you have been going through completely alone, and start from scratch and build around your kids, and being great parents. None of this "we are great parents, blah blah" stuff either. The whole point is take a nice long break from yourselves, and your problems, and come back with fresh eyes, and attitudes, so you can actually resolve your issues to the benefit of you both, and not just be stuck in positions that benefit one, and not the other.

You may even decide that a divorce is the best way to go, because you have grown so far apart it would be a waste of time to continue together. You still have to work together for your kids though, so do that and leave the relationship/marriage alone for a while so you both can cool off, and stop spinning your wheels, and maybe miss each other enough to be willing to do what's right.

You can't do that, and gain a new, and clearer perspective on things when all you have been doing for so long is overwhelming each other with the same old recycled crap. That's the pattern that emerges when your posts are merged. Read it yourself if you don't believe me, and start from the beginning.

[Ramesees]

Ok, so I did what was suggested and re read the posts, I also re read my diary (I started keeping a diary a while ago(18 months) to keep track on what was happening. The result, particularly in reading the diary was a little shock, 12 months ago the statements, frustrations, concerns and general feelings I wrote in my diary fit today! So there is progress! And just to compliment things, timing is everything and its ironic that my wife started to txt, meet and talk to the stay home dad last week, so it really did feel like 12 months ago, all 'innocent'.

I hear the advice on stepping back and leaving the relationship issues aside and I guess I have made a decision, until after the holidays are done and the new year is here, I am going to just get on with enjoying my kids and my life as much as we can. My wife can come along (and I hope she does) and enjoy and be part of the family (and my wife) or not. If she does, great, if she doesn't then we can deal with the way forward in the new year and the way forward cannot be more of the same.

The only thing I will raise issue on in the mean time is anything on stay home dad, that line is drawn and right or wrong I am not compromising (reading my diary, I must have been insane, or a saint not to have dealt with him a long time ago).

[SVImager]

Wow, you are still in the situation. At least it is improving for you.

So, I believe your next step is to increase your attractiveness.
Simple things like, having a goal. You can go on without her. Not being needy.
Having conversations with her, in which you don't provide any answers, just confirm her feelings.
Good luck.