[N0help4u]

Believe in God the creator the almighty and understand repenting of sin you are off to a good start I think

[JoeCanada76]

Well, I decided to open up a huge can of worms, but I hope that we can all have a rational discussion about this, because I really do want everyone's point of view.

Why do Christians base their beliefs on the bible? Why do they consider the bible to be Gods word?

The Bible was written by men, not God, not Jesus, but men. How do you explain all the contradictions in the bible? Do you really believe everything that the bible states, all the miracles, all the stories?

Why do people quote the bible and expect that to be taken as proof of Gods word?

I believe in God, but not the bible, I believe in God but not in Church. Isn't the belief of the bible and church putting you in the hands of man, not God?

I'm curious to know, so please respond, but lets be nice about it. I will admit now that no matter what you say about the validity of the bible, I will not ever accept it as the word of God, 10 years of Catholic school got that out of my system. I just want to know why Christians believe in a man written book, after all, man is not perfect, man is not infallible, so how can the bible be the God's honest truth?

I was brought up as Roman Catholic, I also went to other church services from other denominations growing up. The church has changed a lot over the years and I believe that church can be beneficial... I also believe that you should always be open to new experiences... Trying different churches out, studying the bible... Just because you may not believe that the bible was not written by God, but only by men... I believe that Gods codes or life imprint or guided spirit is within each of us. It is up to us to open up to his word, which his word is within each of us. Jesus said, he would send a comforter to all of us. Without God nothing would be possible, but I truly feel that within each and everyone of us, has different gifts and different ways of expressing those gifts... The spirit can lead us in many different books. Is the Bible more important then God know, but the bible if used in the proper hands can be a blue print in each of our lives..

As far as contradictions, The old testament is more of a history book and stories of the experiences of people in those days. It is a story told by the witnesses of that day and were expressed in different ways depending on the persons outlook and experience of life.

I would also like to add that many of the stories and influences of the bible are their to show future generations of their cultures and beliefs and how there is always room for forgiveness, love, and compassion no matter what is happening in life.

For me personally, nothing was shoved down my throat and I do not believe I do that with others. I started at a very young age reading the bible on my own, it was my guide in life. I had no father figure and God was my only true father that I could depend on and the one way I got to know God was through reading the bible and meditating and praying...

So since a young age I have always had God within me and I have always believed the bible to be true accounts of God, and his love for his creation.

I do not quote but like to give examples of certain stories or relate to others by my own personal experiences in life. We can help each other through our stories, our life stories and that is why I believe there are so many stories in the bible. To show us, and guide us and help us along the path of LOVE, FORGIVENESS, AND SO MUCH MORE.

I am rambling on and on... I just know that the bible and getting to know God through prayer and meditation has helped many times... Not just for understanding when life is hard for myself but to also give strength to other people.

[JoeCanada76]

I also would like to add that I do believe our own personal experiences while we are young, whether with family, church , etc... can and do shape what we may believe or not believe when older...
Many people who have had bad experiences in the church or school, are then turned away from that certain denomination... It is understandable but as the old saying goes.. do not judge the book by its cover, or do not let one bad apple ruin everything.
I have had my own personal experiences in the church that I do not agree with and never will, then there are other things that I do agree with. It is up to each of us to stand up for what each of us as individuals believe in... To share that with each other, my belief is we all can share with each other our different views and thoughts and beliefs is good for all of us.

[Alty]

Joe I value your input, and I do respect your beliefs. To you the bible is a comfort, the word of God, I don't begrudge you that, in fact I will admit that I envy your unfaltering belief, your commitment to that belief.

You have never preached to me, or to anyone else on this site as far as I know. You are an example of someone that lives his life according to his beliefs without feeling the need to make anyone else feel or think the same way. I respect that.

I can't say that I am as respectful of that, I have gotten into arguments with people about religion, that is something I do not wish to do. I realized, recently, that allot of the time, when a fight or argument ensues, if I would have just backed down, or spoken more respectfully, then the argument would not have begun.

I started this thread to share my beliefs, and to ask about others beliefs. Perhaps I did word it in a way that forced people to stand up for their beliefs, if so I apologize, that was not my intention.

I did realize that I might be opening a huge can of worms by posting this, but I honestly wanted to discuss this, with everyone. If I've hurt anyone's feelings then I apologize for that too, that was not my intention.

I know that my experiences growing up (not because of my parents, they truly were the most wonderful parents anyone could have asked for) turned me away from the bible and Church, and I have no desire whatsoever to turn back to either of them. My experiences did not turn me away from God, I still believe.

I guess I'm a bit confused, struggling to understand how Christians, and someone like me, could really believe in the same God. Our beliefs are so very different, so do we believe in the same God? I don't know. And if we don't, then why?

I keep asking more questions, and I know that there aren't any answers.

I cannot accept the bible as fact, nor can I put my faith in organized religion, so how can anyone answer my questions when the two things that any Christian would use to convince me are things I will not accept?

Maybe I should ask that this thread be closed, I don't want anyone to be hurt by anything I say.

Perhaps this thread has done one thing. Now you all understand my beliefs more, and perhaps, by understanding that, you can better understand me. :)

[N0help4u]

I don't put my faith in any denomination either. I believe that most of them lead people away from the truth rather than to the truth. I DO study their doctrines and compare them to the Bible and learn what I can from it though.

[Wondergirl]

I admire you, Alty, for posting your question on a public board and risking a few arrows. It sounds like you are open to God being in your life, and isn't that what it's all about, no matter what a person believes?

[N0help4u]

I agree she is more open to God than many that do good works trying to 'buy' their way to heaven which many do-gooder church people mistakenly do.

[JoeCanada76]

God of the Jews,
God of the Christians,
God of the Native Indians,
The God of etc...

What I am saying here is there is in my belief one God, but we all see different aspects of that same God. Each of us has something different to offer. Meaning that... By sharing each others beliefs and how each person has come to that belief is important to share..

Even though Alty, you feel there is two major things that separate you from what Christians believe. I betcha if you dig a little deeper and get more posting going on you will find there may be more similarities then you think. Just a thought.

For example: There are many experiences I had in church that were not necessarily positive, but I look at things completely different then what the church teaches or practices. So some things I do not agree with and won't... but I do not think it matters what church, religion, denomination or person you speak with.. There is good and bad with everything and it is up to each of us to find what is right for us, I mean find and discover what beliefs we do have...

Like you have said you Believe in God, in your own way.
You believe in Jesus.

I think we all have our own ideas, and no man made religion can satisfy our thirst for the complete true loving God, but as I said I believe we can find that truth within ourselves...

My own opinion...

[Alty]

I was a Lutheran, but never an active member of the Church. We went to Church twice a year, once at Christmas (my parents loved the carolling and the decorations) and once on Easter (again, the decorations, the songs, and the fact that it was a great excuse to buy a new outfit). ;)

My parents never pushed Church on me, nor did they push God on me. Like I said before, it was my decision to go the Catholic school, because my best friend went to that school.

My parents believed in God, much the same way I do now. I guess in a way I'm sticking to my roots, even though they never said that I had to, and never actually described their actual faith or belief.

The stories they told, the things that they did, and things that happened in our lives, that's where my belief came from.

I can honestly say, no matter what is said here, I will never venture into a Church as a member.

Sorry everyone, I hope you can accept that.

[Alty]

Wondergirl, NoHelp and Joe, thank you, that's really all I can say, thank you. :)

[JoeCanada76]

Alty, that is your choice and you need to stay true to yourself.. and true to your beliefs and your roots. (;

[Wondergirl]

Jesus said the two greatest commandments are to love God and love your neighbor as yourself. From what I've observed, Alty, those commandments are written on your heart.

[Alty]

Thanks everyone. :)

Good discussion, great friends. :)

[N0help4u]

Jesus said the two greatest commandments are to love God and love your neighbor as yourself. From what I've observed, Alty, those commandments are written on your heart.

Exactly what I am saying it is the purity of heart that God has mercy on whom he will.
Not what denomination you attended or how many times you made it to a service within a week or a month or year.

[JoeCanada76]

I can honestly say, no matter what is said here, I will never venture into a Church as a member.

Sorry everyone, I hope you can accept that.

Alty, You know what Lately I have been going to a different denomination church and they try to get you in as a member, and accept the church as your new home...

I have still not committed myself or my family because I believe that I am just a visitor, to any church or denomination I go to. I am just a VISITOR..
I belong to God. That is simple. So I do not feel the need to commit to any church, even though they want you to, that is just not in my belief either.

[Alty]

I guess we aren't really all that different after all. :)

[N0help4u]

Same here JH
Many will even tell you you have to have a church home and not church hop within the denomination but every time I ever went to different churches because the Holy Spirit led me I was really really blessed each time.

[ordinaryguy]

The Bible has in all sorts of ways (good as well as bad) affected the lives of millions of people. Certainly if the Bible is "just a book," that wouldn't be the case.

There are quite a few other books that have affected the lives of millions of people (good as well as bad), so the Bible is not particularly unique by that criterion.

My opinion is (I BELIEVE) that many, many such texts (hundreds at least, maybe thousands) exist in the world, and that they are all more than "just a book". I really don't have a problem accepting the Bible as a holy book of scripture, but I have a BIG problem accepting it as the ONLY holy book of scripture. To me, the scriptures of the world contain the accumulated stories of humanity's yearning for and attempts to approach the transcendent and the ineffable--that which is believed to be real, but is just beyond the grasp of the rational intellect. Those of us who have some measure of that yearning in our own mind (not everybody does) can learn much from reading these texts. But I don't think any of them are The Word of God.

As to why churches use scriptures the way they do, it's important to remember that churches are voluntary social organizations. That means any individual can unilaterally remove themselves from the church, and the church can expel and exclude any person it deems unworthy to belong. So they have a need to make up a list of rules and regulations and criteria that define who is to be regarded as "one of us", and who is to be treated as "one of them". Many of them seem to think that scripture is the right tool for this job, and they often develop considerable skill wielding it as device for sorting sheep from goats. This turning of scriptures into rulebooks for inclusion and exclusion based on required beliefs and behaviors is a degradation and perversion of them, in my opinion.

[firmbeliever]

Maybe I don't believe in the same God as all of you, there are so many differences between my beliefs and the beliefs of those that follow the bible and go to Church. So, if there is but one God, then who do I believe in? Is he the same God that Christians believe in? If so, then how can that be? I guess I am confused, but not about my beliefs so much as I am about others.

Okay?

I would actually like to hear your thoughts on what I said...
https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/religi...ml#post1205948

[Allheart]

Hi Alty,

Great question and great thread.

Being a Roman Catholic and attending Catholic school, we never had our head in the bible.
Mostly, it was the ten Commandments taught over and over.

During Mass, readings from the bible are read, and then explained. Which actually is my favorite part of the mass.

I believe there are truths in the bible, and it is a tool, to keep us strong, and on the right path, but man did have a role in writing it, so they may have added their views to it as well, but it should not take away from the truths that are in there.

The bible is a tool, the ten Commandments, Mother Teresa's writings, the love we have for God and others in our hearts, are all tools that can be incorporated in our daily lives, to help keep God, and His love, the central point in our lives.