[workerbee]

[I]
How can u say there is no God.Then where did this concept of God come from??I do believe Jesus was a man.A man who came to lead us to God but failed.
Science is very young.It is unable to explain everything happening in our very earh.For example let me quote Nobel laureate Carlo Rubbia-"The identity of 95% of what constitues the universe is not known and experiments are being conducted"If this is the case how can u site scientific evidences.Know what Einstein used to say, he felt like a child playing at the sea shore when the ocean of knowledge stretched before him.

I am glad that you think Jesus was just a man, he was some people even think that he never existed because he never left and writings in his own hand, or he was illiterate
Here is a more scientific explanation of how myths get started. First off let me say there are many Gods, from Zeus, to Jupiter, apollo, etc All made up. In ancient Greece Fossils decorated many temples and from these
We get Cyclops, griffin and so on. Finding fossils of some dinosaur heads with lots of teeth
Even a mammoth head. The Mammoth was broken up but looked like a head with one eye
The small dinosaur head never seen before, the Griffin is bornThe fossils were collected and are now in Museum of natural history. It explains a lot. You might see a giant leg bone but not a complete skeleton, with a little imagination the giant gods are born. These stories are handed down going from country to country. That's why there were thousands of ancinet Gods. Not all stories were from fossils but it takes very little for a story to become inflated. Cho, don't just dismiss me when I tell you that God is not real. I think most people have a physcolgical need to believe in God
You might do well to read books by David Mills and others See what they have to say.


Workerbee

[Cho]

Cho, don't just dismiss me when i tell you that God is not real. I think most people have a physcolgical need to believe in God
You might do well to read books by David Mills and others See what they have to say.


Workerbee

Then why did u say "God made you an athiest".Who are u to question his existence?

[workerbee]

CHO, My signature IS A JOKE

workerbee

[Cho]

Here is a more scientific explanation of how myths get started. First off let me say there are many Gods, from Zeus, to Jupiter, apollo, etc All made up. In ancient Greece Fossils decorated many temples and from these
we get Cyclops, griffin and so on. Finding fossils of some dinosaur heads with lots of teeth
even a mammoth head. The Mammoth was broken up but looked like a head with one eye
The small dinosaur head never seen before, the Griffin is bornThe fossils were collected and are now in Museum of natural history.

Workerbee

So if they found a big piece of bone why didn't they mistake it for a rock or something else? Why give a superhuman touch to it?

[Capuchin]

I think most people have a physcolgical need to believe in God.

I believe this is true, God is simply a method to come to terms with death. Humans find it hard to accept that there will be nothing after death. Everythign else is constructed around this initial seed.

[Cho]

Humans find it hard to accept that there will be nothing after death.

What is there after death?

[NeedKarma]

What is there after death??

Nothing that can be explained by astronomy I'll tell you that for sure.

[Capuchin]

What is there after death??

Nothing.

[workerbee]

Capuchin, that is what I think. Cho I changed my signature just for you. Check it out if you have time It's a great website and might answer your questions in more detail. From there you can get to the forum. There are many sections to it for Atheists, former Christians, Christians even a science section

workerbee

[inthebox]

So worker bee:

You changed your signature. Because god made me an atheist, though a joke, ironically acknowledges God and absolves you of the choice you make.


Lets see, your type of god would have to prove himself to you with all sorts of miracles and supernatural feats. No choice, no effort to decide. What kind of god is that? One at your beck and call to make your life here on earth better? One that does not give you the free will to love back. No wonder you do not believe. So enjoy your time here - its limited, there is nothing after death, as you say.

1 John 4: 7-21 - in fact the whole epistle.
That is my kind of God. :D

[CMM_Kaleido]

I believe this is true, God is simply a method to come to terms with death. Humans find it hard to accept that there will be nothing after death. Everythign else is constructed around this initial seed.

You can make the argument that science seeks the same goal. If we can understand and control everything than we can control death and thus no longer need to fear it. Or call it immortality through legacy or being part of something larger than ourselves. Same logic fits both "we need God" or "we need science."

And the same fact applies to both: just because something is constructed by humans does not make it invalid. Science is constructed by humans. Sure you can argue the laws of the universe were in existence before, but we identified them, labeled them--we gave them identities--constructed them. We give them validity by our belief in them.


Back to Cho's original question--Could God be a large amount of energy--does anyone have any comments on Birabhadra Mahakud's response?

Physics is just a part of the Metaphysics.Physics cannot describe the whole of metaphysics. By examining Special Theory of relativity one comes to know that infinte energy is required to stop time and exit from this physical world while still existing in its own frame. Furher no maths or physics can describe it--This is the limit of Logic. In the beginning of the universe too, space and time were zero and infinite. My calculations on the relativistic schwarzschild metric shows that it was also like the case mentioned above. I am Damn sure that the BigBang required infinte amount of energy, which is beyond the human capability and reasoning. INFINITY is the only attribute of GOD.

[curiousasheck]

God is dog spelled backwords

[Capuchin]

does anyone have any comments on Birabhadra Mahakud's response?

Yes, It sounds like a lot of hogwash to me. He seems arguing that God only existed at the big bang. Would you agree with that?

You can make the argument that science seeks the same goal. If we can understand and control everything than we can control death and thus no longer need to fear it. Or call it immortality through legacy or being part of something larger than ourselves. Same logic fits both "we need God" or "we need science."

And the same fact applies to both: just because something is constructed by humans does not make it invalid. Science is constructed by humans. Sure you can argue the laws of the universe were in existence before, but we identified them, labeled them--we gave them identities--constructed them. We give them validity by our belief in them.

You could make that argument, but I think it's not a very valid one. Science isn't about a fear of death at all. Are you arguing that, if we didn't all die, then fire is a useless invention, gravity is useless to understand? It's about understanding the world around us through observation. Living longer is a tiny tiny spin off.

You seem to be arguing that God only exists because of our belief in him? We don't give the laws of physics validity by our belief in them, but instead by our observation of them. This is something that you cannot argue in favor of God.

Let me humour you by accepting that science is about a fear of death. Science actually gives verifiable results which extend our lives. God and eternal life are just something that you're pretending about, you'll still live just as long with or without it.

The OP claims that there is a clash between science and God. This seems like a contradiction to me. I can't see how it's possible to have a clash between science and God.

[CMM_Kaleido]

Yes, It sounds like a lot of hogwash to me. He seems arguing that God only existed at the big bang. Would you agree with that?

Does he say that the infinite energy only existed at the Big Bang? I didn't get that.

You could make that argument, but I think it's not a very valid one. Science isn't about a fear of death at all. Are you arguing that, if we didnt all die, then fire is a useless invention, gravity is useless to understand? It's about understanding the world around us through observation. Living longer is a tiny tiny spin off.

Defeating death is just one aspect of what drives science--I called that one out first because you mentioned it specifically. I stated the following:

"If we can understand and control everything than we can control death and thus no longer need to fear it. Or call it immortality through legacy or being part of something larger than ourselves."

These are all part of the same thing:understanding the universe so we can control our place in it.

You seem to be arguing that God only exists because of our belief in him? We don't give the laws of physics validity by our belief in them, but instead by our observation of them. This is something that you cannot argue in favor of God.

Observation is only half of it. We observe, then label--thus it is part of a human construction of reality. Does gravity exist whether you label it or not? You would say yes. And guess what--so does God: the intelligent creator behind gravity. Just because we have not observed Him in a context science was prepared to label does not mean He is not there.

[NeedKarma]

And guess what--so does God: the intelligent creator behind gravity. Just because we have not observed Him in a context science was prepared to label does not mean He is not there.

Actually in the scientific realm it does indeed mean that he is not there because we cannot view/measure that "fact". If, in 1,000 years we come up with a way to measure or make a replicable experiment that proves that phenomena then the understanding of "god" may change then. But for now the answer is there is no god at work.

[CMM_Kaleido]

NeedKarma are you saying that scientists can not acknowledge the possibility of the existence of something they have not already discovered? That can't be what you meant to say. Even scientists have to use something other than fact to come up with the idea of something while they work to prove it. If every hypothesis starts with absolute fact and already observed reality what is the point of science?

I sure as heck thought I was teaching my boys to use their skills as observers in conjunction with with that amazing brain to imagine possibilities not yet conceived, observed, or labeled.

[NeedKarma]

All right then, how would go about testing for the presence of god since you've already imagined the possibility?

[workerbee]

So worker bee:

you changed your signature. Because god made me an atheist, though a joke, ironically acknowledges God and absolves you of the choice you make.


Lets see, your type of god would have to prove himself to you with all sorts of miracles and supernatural feats. No choice, no effort to decide. What kind of god is that? One at your beck and call to make your life here on earth better? One that does not give you the free will to love back. No wonder you do not believe. So enjoy your time here - its limited, there is nothing after death, as you say.

1 John 4: 7-21 - in fact the whole epistle.
that is my kind of God. :D

And your god promises everything and does Nothing. Why would you believe in him? In that case take your pick. I like Zeus better than your God. Enjoy your time in your make-believe-world. You also might try to open your mind up a bit and realize that you might be worshiping the wrong God which makes you in danger of going to another hell. Think about it. Let me finish with this "If i am wrong and God exists, the same God who gave me a brain, reason, common sense. I don't think that this god would then condemn me for using those tools he gave me"
:D
workerbee

[firmbeliever]

What is god??There is always this clash between science & god.Can God be a huge amount of energy??

The question whether there is an Almighty God does not fall under the jurisdiction of science the same as with the proof of a life after death, as science is concerned with classification and analysis of data.
Scientific inquiries and research,in the modern sense of the term has only been researched in recent history, whereas the concept of the existence of the Almighty and life after death has been a question on man's mind since time immemorial.

As NeedKarma points out, scientifically there is nothing to prove the existence of the Almighty in the same way that we can prove the existence of air, water ,planets, blood cells, cancer etc using microscopes and other gadgets available.

The proof of his existence for those who believe now as well as those who accepted the words of the Messengers and Prophets all those centuries ago is available all around us.
Beginning with our own selves. This is where science does not contradict religion in my belief. Science proves that each of us are unique individuals made of intricately designed networks, with power supplies non stop within us to energize organs and make them function even as we sleep.Then there is the part of our consciousness of our surroundings using our senses and how this data is processed and made available at the blink of an eye.Those without certain capabilities make us realize how much dearer it is to be able to have them.Realisation dawns within us that the existence of life itself could not have come about by itself and thus proves to the believer the existence of the Almighty and science just proves it to those who believe.

Man with his perceptual consciousness, rational, aesthetic and moral consciousness chooses to believe in the Almighty.

I can only quote from the Book I believe and follow in regards to those who do not believe in the existence of the Almighty…..
"They say, 'There is nothing but our present life; we die, and we live, and nothing but Time destroys us.' Of that they have no knowledge; they merely conjecture…….. ' (45:24-25)

And no I do not believe that the Almighty is energy in the sense of the term which we are aware of in this world, He is not defined or constricted by the things of this world we live in, like time and space and energy. The Almighty is beyond all that we see and feel.
And no He cannot be measured, weighed or labeled under a scientific name just to prove to those who do not believe.

[vaskalr]

Let us define god in the most simple words- god is something who can do everything. If you agree with this definition then we can proceed further. If god can do everything then why don't it just do everything. In this universe everything happens with a predefined purpose. Whatever happens, you can add a purpose with that. The one who attaches purpose to every act can be defined as god. So if we go by this definition then god is a manager of energy rather then itself energy. As the energy can never be destroyed so the manager of energy can`t be destroyed.