[magprob]

Proof? I am Proof!! im an Iraqi who Lives in Iraq... what more proof you want? i see whats going on in my country.. what people say.. what solders are doing..no business..no money.. alot of who i know died..

americans solders shot my guard, broke into my house and trashed everything..i can't go out of the house because it's not safe...i found a hand in my garden..
i lived there before the war and after.. you can't compare... in saddams time we had a normal life.. people didnt have %100 freedom but we had freedom.. safety.. business, now when they say someone close to you died..we feel so numb because of the amount of people who DIE A DAY that we hear about.

listen.. there is.. media..government.. politics.. and then there is real life, real people and real experience

media, government and politics LIE because if you will know the truth you will not accept it.
they try to feed you brain with reason that are unreal so you accept the war so they get what they want...which is OIL.


you can't come to me and say what media said; what you have read or watched on TV and tell me oh you no what .. it is safe..its better than before or whatever..THE FACT IS ; I LIVE THERE, YOU DONT..and what i say will be more real then what you know WHAT YOU READ IS WHAT I LIVE.

Yes, they want your oil but first, they must take something else.
Look at the 'Biblical borders' as spelled out in the Old Testament - the Talmudist's Torah: This can be found in Numbers 34: 1-13:

And the Lord spake unto Moses, saying, Command the children of Israel, and say unto them, When ye come into the land of Canaan; (this is the land that shall fall unto you for an inheritance, even the land of Canaan with the coasts thereof):
Then your south quarter shall be from the wilderness of Zin along by the coast of Edom, and your south border shall be the outmost coast of the salt sea eastward; And your border shall turn from the south to the ascent of Akrabbim, and pass on to Zin; and the going forth thereof shall be from the south to the Kadeshbarnea, and shall go on to Hazaraddar, and pass on to Azmon; and the border shall fetch a compass from Azmon unto the river of Egypt, and the goings out of it shall be at the sea.

And as for the western border, ye shall even have the great sea for a border; this shall be your west border.

And this shall be your north border; from the great sea ye shall point out for you Mount Hor: From mount Hor ye shall point out your border unto the entrance of Hamath; and the goings forth of the border shall be to Zedad; And the border shall go on to Ziphron and the goings out of it shall be at Hazarenan; this shall be your north border.

And ye shall point out your east border from Hazarenan to Shepham: And the coast shall go down from Shepham to Riblah, on the east side of Ain; and the border shall descend, and shall reach unto the side of the sea of Chinnereth eastward. And the border shall go down to Jordan and the goings out of it shall be at the salt sea; this shall be your land with the coasts thereof round about.

And Moses commanded the children of Israel saying, This is the land which ye shall inherit by lot, which the Lord commanded to give unto the nine tribes, and to the half tribe.

Shahak defines those borders as being: all of Sinai and a part of northern Egypt; all of Jordan and a large chunk of Saudi Arabia; all of Kuwait and a part of Iraq south of the Euphrates; all of Lebanon and all of Syria; together with a huge part of Turkey; and the island of Cyprus.

Is this vast territory still the ultimate goal of Israeli expansionism? Shahak further states that in May 1993 Ariel Sharon formally proposed in the Likud Convention that Israel should adopt the Biblical borders concept as its official policy.

[Choux]

It looks like for us it could easily turn out to be "LOTS OF BLOOD, NO OIL".

The whole situation in the Middle-East is very unstable(Iran, SaudiArabia, etc), and our army is *surrounded* by potential religious militias, guerilla groups and what not!

[loveyoupeople]

If it were happening, I probably wouldn't be "cool" with it, unless the guys who it was being done to were terrorists. Then I say go for it. But we have no proof of any such thing happening except your word.



Let's compare this statement with other statements you have made earlier in this string.

"everyone got along with every one just fine."
"was it safer when saddam was there .. HElLL YEAH"
"b4 when saddam was leading.. it was safe enough to go out."

If it was so safe in Iraq under Saddam's rule, why did you need a guard? To guard against who or what? It was safer under Saddam, according to you.



So you say. But somehow, people are conducting business in Iraq just fine. Schools are open too, so kids are able to move around safely. Hospitals are open, so patients are able to move around safely. But for some reason, you seem to be having trouble. Assuming what you have said is true, for which I have my doubts.

But if little kids can get to school, and sick patients can get to the hospital, then perhaps you need to actually get your a$$ out of your home, stop b!tching and moaning, and start earning some money instead of blaming America for your misfortune. Your economy has been opened up, there are economic opportunities that have not existed in Iraq for decades, and you have the opportunity to become richer than you could have ever dreamed.

Or you you can sit there and moan about how terrible America is for giving you these opportunities.

Choice is yours, LYP. You decide.

Elliot

I will not accept your reply.. this is not about me.. it is about the iraqi people and their death for the Oil that your steeling.. its not about my life.. I have said few things about me so you understand more of what's going on.. I have guards when saddam was ruling because I have a huge house.. and I traveled a lot so I needed some one to be there.

By the way I'm against terrorism.. do you know why? Because innocent people die.. 9/11 for instance.. american people paid the price for politics..
If america stops war there will be no terrorist.. terrorism is a payback which I think is so wrong because again people are dying..

Its simple maths.. today I kill your child.. tomorrow you will want to kill me.. that's how terrorism works.


P.S. if you think it is safe in Iraq.. why don't you come for a visit.. I will offer you my house to stay in.. Come and see for yourself..

Dear All,

I was reading through all your posts.. and I realized that it was wrong of me to ask you my question and it was wrong of me to show you the truth of Iraq.

All of you who have replied to my post most likely have shelter.. a nice job.. a nice house.. lovely loving healthy children and have your loved ones safe and healthy around you.. and maybe your relaxed sipping your wine as you write to me the things you write..
You see.. I noticed you actually have no right to reply or even give an oppenion about iraq.. you will never know what's really going on unless you live there..

I have shared the brutal Iraqi truth with you but your too afraid to acknowledge it; I guess you rather believe media than what a real Iraqi girl who lives in Iraq has to say..
I have given you the facts of the war pre war and after war.. and it doesn't really matter what you will believe.. your not going to change anything..

So I decided to not reply to anymore of your posts.. its not that you don't understand; it's that you do not want to understand.

[excon]

Hello again, love:

I believe you.

There are people here who have a stake in being right about Iraq. They think he had WMD's. They think he did 9/11. They think he was worse than Hitler. They think he killed MILLIONS of people.

They think we've only killed a few hundred. They're not going to change their minds. Instead of listening to you, an IRAQI person who LIVES in the middle of it, they accuse you of being a troll. I'm embarrassed for them.

Please accept my apology for their behavior on this board. Please accept my apology for the behavior of my country against yours.

excon

[Silent Breeze]

Hello again, love:

I believe you.

There are people here who have a stake in being right about Iraq. They think he had WMD's. They think he did 9/11. They think he was worse than Hitler. They think he killed MILLIONS of people.

They think we've only killed a few hundred. They're not going to change their minds. Instead of listening to you, an IRAQI person who LIVES in the middle of it, they accuse you of being a troll. I'm embarrassed for them.

Please accept my apology for their behavior on this board. Please accept my apology for the behavior of my country against yours.

excon

As long as someone from those who read this understood the truth then there is hope. Excon, if you live with people who think like this, please share your knowledge, please tell them the truth of what is happening each day but no one is helping, no one is reaching out to them. There are lots of people dying in Palestine as well, Lebanon, and many more places. We have to stop this! Media has blurred people's vision, I just wish someone would wake up and see the truth.

[excon]

Excon, if you live with people who think like this, please share your knowledge, please tell them the truth of what is happening

Hello Silent:

If you take a look, I HAVE been sharing the TRUTH with these very same people, for close to 10 years now. I may have made a dent, but it doesn't look like it.

The problem is, they have their VERSION of the TRUTH. And they say that the TRUTH as I see it, is only MY version as well. Because they play fast and loose with the facts, they think I do too.

They might be right. I get my facts from the sources I trust. They get theirs from their sources. I don't know whether to believe the OP. I DO believe her, but she may be a very good left wing troll. There IS some evidence of that.

Nonetheless, I'm not stopping. If I can change ONE mind here, I've done my job.

excon

PS> Somebody the other day, said that I DID change their mind. Whaddya know about that?

[iAMfromHuntersBar]

Please accept my apology for their behavior on this board.

Please, don't apologise for anything on my behalf, I don't believe she's an Iraqi and I do believe she's a troll. I thus have nothing to apologise for! She has come onto a discussion board and made some very emotive accusations, which even if she does believe she would have to expect some form of repercussions and debate on!

Just like asking "If there really IS a God, why does he allow ..."

I wonder who's done that recently?

Oh yeah, the OP!

[Silent Breeze]

Hello Silent:

If you take a look, I HAVE been sharing the TRUTH with these very same people, for close to 10 years now. I may have made a dent, but it doesn't look like it.

The problem is, they have their VERSION of the TRUTH. And they say that the TRUTH as I see it, is only MY version as well. Because they play fast and loose with the facts, they think I do too.

They might be right. I get my facts from the sources I trust. They get theirs from their sources. I dunno whether to believe the OP. I DO believe her, but she may be a very good left wing troll. There IS some evidence of that.

Nonetheless, I'm not stopping. If I can change ONE mind here, I've done my job.

excon

PS> Somebody the other day, said that I DID change their mind. Whaddya know about that?

I think its good that you've spoken out and tried to show them the truth. And I wasn't saying you aren't, I was just asking you and trying to encourage you to keep doing that. I wasn't talking specifically to you though, I was hoping anyone who read it with the same ideas we have would speak out, and tell their side, OUR version of the truth.
Thank you,
Silent Breeze

[speechlesstx]

There are people here who have a stake in being right about Iraq. They think he had WMD's. They think he did 9/11. They think he was worse than Hitler. They think he killed MILLIONS of people.

Ex, come on man, I think we all have a stake in Iraq and it this point the reasons for going are not that relevant - we're there and need to finish the job. Secondly, for the umpteenth time everyone believed Saddam had WMD's. Are they accounted for yet? Killed millions? Who knows, but hundreds of thousands of his own people I believe is a yes.

They think we've only killed a few hundred. They're not going to change their minds. Instead of listening to you, an IRAQI person who LIVES in the middle of it, they accuse you of being a troll. I'm embarrassed for them.

I'll listen to anyone, but there's a reason I believe the moderator's troll alert because I've been one before and I know exactly what he means about the IP address (not to mention the tone and grammar) telling "a very American story," so don't be embarrassed for me.

Oh yeah, and one would think an Iraqi would know you don't spell "Shia" S-h-e-e-y-a.

[ETWolverine]

LoveYouPeople

if america stops war there will be no terrorist.. terrorism is a payback which I think is so wrong because again people are dying..

This is also baloney.

Why was there a 9-11 attack? Did we invade Iraq before 9-11? How about the forst attack against the World Trade Center in 1993? Was that also in response to attacking Iraq?

And what about the

I thought that Saddam had no connection to terrorists? If so, then why would terrorists attack the USA because of something we did to Saddam? What's their interest?

Let's see. Over the past 30 years, there have been more than 100 major terrorist attacks committed by Islamic terrorist groups that took place before the invasion of Iraq. Here are a few of them. Please tell me which ones were a result of the US invasion of Iraq or for that matter any actions taken by the USA?

1972
• May 30: Lod Airport Massacre killing 26 and injuring 78.
• Four PLO terrorists hijacked a Sabena airliner carrying 99 passengers and ten crew members on route from Brussels to Tel Aviv.
• September 5: Black September kidnaps and kills eleven Israeli Olympic athletes and one German policeman in the Munich Massacre.
• September 19: The group Black September post a letter bomb to the Israeli embassy in London killing an Israeli diplomat.
1973
• March 1: Black September takes ten hostages (five of them diplomats) at the Saudi Arabian embassy in Khartoum, Sudan. Three western diplomats are killed.
• December 17: Pan Am Flight 110: 30 passengers were killed when phosphorus bombs are thrown aboard the aircraft as it prepares for departure.
1974
• January 31: Laju incident: JRA–PFLP attack on a Shell facility in Singapore and the simultaneous seizure of the Japanese embassy in Kuwait.
• April 11: Kiryat Shmona massacre at an apartment building by the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine members, killing 18 people, nine of whom were children.
• May 15: Ma'alot massacre at the Ma'alot High School in Northern Israel by Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine members: 26 of the hostages were killed, 66 wounded.
• September 8: TWA Flight 841: Bomb kills 88 on jetliner. Attributed to Abu Nidal and his terrorist organization.
1975
• March 5: In the Savoy Operation PLO gunmen from Lebanon take dozens of hostages at the Tel Aviv Savoy Hotel eventually killing eight hostages and three IDF soldiers, and wounding eleven hostages.
• December 1975: Carlos the Jackal and his rebels attack OPEC headquarters in Vienna, Austria and take over 60 hostages - mostly they were OPEC countries' leaders.
1976
• June 26–July 4: Hijacking of Air France Flight 139 (Tel Aviv-Paris) by Palestinian PFLP and German Revolutionäre Zellen; see Operation Entebbe: four hostages, one Sayeret Matkal soldier and 45 Ugandian soldiers killed.
1977
• March 9: Three buildings in Washington, DC are seized by members of the militant African-American Muslim Hanafi sect and over 100 hostages taken. One bystander is shot and killed, and Washington city councilman Marion Barry is shot in the chest.
• October 13: Lufthansa flight LH 181 was kidnapped by a group of four PFLP to Mogadishu
1978
• Members of the Arab Revolutionary Council poison Israeli oranges with mercury, injuring at least twelve people and reducing exports by 40 percent.
• March 11: Coastal Road massacre: Fatah gunmen killed several tourists and hijack a bus near Haifa; 37 Israelis on the bus are killed.
1979
• July: Norwegian police prevents terrorist attacks against the U.S. and Israeli embassies in Oslo, Norway.
• 2 November: Sunni militant group of 1,300 to 1,500 men seized the Grand Mosque in Mecca Saudi Arabia.
1980
• July 27: A member of the Abu Nidal Organization carried out a grenade attack on a group of Jews waiting for a bus in Antwerp, Belgium, killing a child and wounding twenty others.
• October 3: Four congregants were killed and twelve others injured in a bomb attack on the rue Copernic synagogue in Paris, France.
1981
• August 29: Machine gun and grenade attack on the Stadttempel synagogue in Vienna, killing two people and wounding 23.
• October 6: Assassination of Egyptian President Anwar Sadat by Islamic Jihad.
• October 20: Attack on a synagogue in Antwerp, Belgium, killing three and wounding sixty.
1982
• August 9: Rue des Rosiers, Paris gunning and bombing of Goldenberg restaurant: six killed and 22 wounded
• August 11: A bomb explodes on Pan Am Flight 830, enroute from Tokyo to Honolulu, killing one teenager and injuring 15 passengers.
• September 14: Assassination of Lebanese President Bashir Gemayel and twenty-five others in a car explosion at the Kataeb headquarters.
• September 18: Four people are wounded when a synagogue in Brussels is attacked in a "shoot and run" incident.
• October 9: Attack with grenades and machine guns on the central synagogue in Rome, Italy. A child dies, ten people are injured.
1983
• April 18: U.S. Embassy Bombing in Beirut, Lebanon kills 63.
• September 23: Gulf Air Flight 771 is bombed, killing all 117 people on board.
• October 23: Marine Barracks Bombing in Beirut kills 241 U.S. Marines. 58 French troops from the multinational force are also killed in a separate attack.
1984
• March 7: three killed and nine injured in the bombing of a civilian bus in Ashdod.
• April 2: 48 people are wounded by a machine gun attack on a crowded shopping mall in Jerusalem.
• September 20: U.S. embassy annex bombed in Beirut killing 20.
1985
• February 23: Paris Marks & Spencer shop, one bomb, one dead, 18 wounded, attributed to pro-Iranian Lebanese Hezbollah.
• March 9: Paris, Cinema Rivoli, 18 injured, pro-Iranian Lebanese Hezbollah
• June 14: TWA Flight 847 skyjacking, Hezbollah. Terrorists take passengers of an Athens-Rome flight hostage, murdering US Navy Seaman, Robert Stethem.
• July 22: Two near-simultaneous bombs in Copenhagen, at the Jewish synagogue and at the offices of Northwest Orient, explode, killing one and injuring 32.
• October 7 – October 10: Achille Lauro cruise ship hijacking by Palestinian Liberation Front, during which passenger Leon Klinghoffer is shot dead.
• November 23: EgyptAir Flight 648 hijacked by Abu Nidal group, flown to Malta, where Egyptian commandos storm plane; 60 are killed by gunfire and explosions.
• December 7: Paris, Galeries Lafayette and Printemps shops, two bombs, 51 injured, attributed to pro-Iranian Lebanese Hizbollah
• December 27: Rome and Vienna Airport Attacks.
1986
• A bomb place on a bus in the West Bank kills one and severely injures three.
• February 3: Paris, Claridge passage (Champs Élysées) seven injured, another bomb failed to explode in the Eiffel tower, pro-Iranian (Fouad Ali Saleh group)
• February 4: Paris, Gibert book shop, seven injured, Fouad Ali Saleh
• February 5: Paris, FNAC-sports, 15 injured
• March 17: TGV Paris, nine injured
• March 20: Paris, Galerie Point-Show bombed, two dead, 21 injured
• April 2: TWA Flight 840 bombed on approach to Athens airport; four passengers (all of them American), including an infant, are killed.
• April 6: the La Belle discothèque in Berlin, a known hangout for U.S. soldiers, was bombed, killing three and injuring 230 people, for which Libya is held responsible.
• September 5: Pan Am Flight 73, an American civilian airliner, is hijacked; 22 people die when plane is stormed in Karachi, Pakistan.
• September 8: Paris town hall's post office bombed, one dead, 16 injured
• September 12: Paris La Défense, Casino Supermarket's restaurant bombed, 43 injured
• September 14: Paris, Pub Renault bombed, two dead, one injured
• September 15: Paris, police headquarters bombed, one dead, 45 injured
• September 17: Paris, Rue de Rennes a bomb explodes in the street, seven dead, 54 injured.
• December 25: Iraqi Airways Flight 163 is hijacked. The pro-Iranian group "Islamic Jihad" claimed responsibility.
1988
• December 21: Pan Am Flight 103 bombing over Lockerbie, Scotland.
1989
• September 19: Suitcase-bomb destroys UTA Flight UT-772 en route to Paris, killing all 171 passengers and crew.
1990
• PLF attack in the beaches on Tel Aviv.
• PLO attack on the US embassy.
• November 5: Assassination of Meir Kahane by early elements of Al Queda.

(continued)

[ETWolverine]

1992
• March 17: Israeli Embassy bombing by "Islamic Jihad" in Buenos Aires, Argentina; 29 killed, 242 injured.
• April 5, 1992: The Iranian embassy in Ottawa is stormed by members of MEK, an Iraq-supported religious right group.
1993
• January 25: Mir Aimal Kansi, a Pakistani, fires an AK-47 assault rifle into cars waiting at a stoplight in front of the Central Intelligence Agency headquarters, killing two and injuring three others.
• February 26: World Trade Center bombing kills six and injures over 1000 people, by coalition of five groups: Jamaat Al-Fuqra'/Gamaat Islamiya/Hamas/Islamic Jihad/National Islamic Front,
• April 16: Hamas kill 2 in Mehola Junction bombing.
1994
• March 1: In the Brooklyn Bridge Shooting, Rashid Baz kills a Hasidic seminary student and wounds four on the Brooklyn Bridge
• July 19: Alas Chiricanas Flight 00901 is bombed, killing 21. Generally attributed to Hezbollah.
• July 26: Israeli Embassy Attack in London and a Jewish charity are car-bombed, wounding 20. Attributed by Britain, Argentina, and Israel to Hezbollah.
• December 11: A small bomb explodes on board Philippine Airlines Flight 434, killing a Japanese businessman. Authorities found out that Ramzi Yousef planted the bomb to test it for his planned terrorist attack.
• December 24: Air France Flight 8969 is hijacked by GIA members who planned to crash the plane on Paris but didn't succeed.
1995
• January 6: Oplan Bojinka plot to bomb eleven U.S. airliners is discovered on a laptop computer in a Manila, Philippines apartment by authorities
• March 8: Terrorists in Karachi, Pakistan, armed with automatic rifles, murdered two American consulate employees and wounded a third.
• May 6: A synagogue is bombed by terrorists in Riga.
• June 14—June 19: Budyonnovsk hospital hostage crisis, 105 civilians and 25 Russian troops were killed.
• July—October: Bombings in France by a GIA unit led by Khaled Kelkal kill eight and injure more than 100.
• November 13: Bombing of OPM-SANG building in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia kills seven
• November 19: Bombing of Egyptian Embassy in Islamabad, Pakistan kills 19.
1996
• January: In Kizlyar, 350 Chechen militants took 3,000 hostages in a hospital. The attempt to free them kills 65 civilians and soldiers.
• February 25 - March 4: A series of four suicide bombings in Israel leave 60 dead and 284 wounded within ten days.
• April 18: 18 people are killed when Islamist gunmen fire on the Europa hotel in Cairo.
• June 25: Khobar Towers bombing -- In all, 19 U.S. servicemen and one Saudi were killed and 372 wounded, by Hizballah Al-Hijaz (Saudi Hizballah) with Iranian support
• August: Marina Roscha Synagogue in Moscow is bombed shortly after being rebuilt after a fire in 1993.
• October 17:The Algerian Armed Islamic Group bombs an underground train injuring 28 people.
1997
• February 24: Ali Abu Kamal opens fire on tourists at an observation deck atop the Empire State Building in New York City, United States, killing a Danish national and wounding visitors from the United States, Argentina, Switzerland and France before turning the gun on himself.
• November 17: Luxor Massacre – Islamist gunmen attack tourists in Luxor, Egypt, killing 62 and injuring 24 people, most of them European and Japanese holidaymakers.
1998
• January 11: Sidi-Hamed massacre Between 120 and 400 people are killed when the Armed Islamic Group bombs a mosque in Haouche Sahraoui and opens fire on civilians in a cinema in Sidi Ahmen.
• February 14: 1998 Coimbatore bombings - Bombings by suspected Islamic Jihadi groups on an election rally in Indian city of Coimbatore kill about 60 people.
• April 2/April 6: Two bombs explode in Riga targeting a Synagogue and the Russian Embassy building for Latvia, linked to Fascist extremist movements. See also Riga Bombing 1998.
• May 13: A bomb blast destroys the outer wall of the Marina Roscha Synagogue in Moscow. The third time the building has been attacked.
• August 7: U.S. embassy bombings in Dar es Salaam, Tanzania and Nairobi, Kenya, killing 225 people and injuring more than 4,000, by al-Qaeda, see FBI Most Wanted Terrorists
1999
• January 3: Gunmen open fire on Shi'a Muslims worshipping in an Islamabad mosque, killing 16 people injuring 25.
• August 31 – September 22: Russian Apartment Bombings kills about 300 people, leading Russia into Second Chechen War.
• December: Jordanian authorities foil a plot to bomb US and Israeli tourists in Jordan and pick up 28 suspects as part of the 2000 millennium attack plots
• December 14: Ahmed Ressam is arrested on the United States–Canada border in Port Angeles, Washington; he confessed to planning to bomb the Los Angeles International Airport as part of the 2000 millennium attack plots
2000
• October 12: USS Cole bombing kills 17 US sailors and wounds 40 off the port coast of Aden, Yemen, by al-Qaeda
2001
• March 26: 10-months-old Israeli infant Shalhevet Pass is intentionally and fatally shot in the head by a Palestinian sniper in Hebron.
• June 1: 21 civilians, mostly teenagers from the former Soviet Union, are killed by a Hamas suicide bomber in the Dolphinarium massacre in Tel Aviv, Israel
• August 9: A suicide bomber in Jerusalem kills seven and wounds 130 in the Sbarro restaurant suicide bombing; Hamas and Islamic Jihad claim responsibility.
• September 11: Attacks kill 2,997 in a series of hijacked airliner
• September 13: Paris embassy attack plot foiled.
• October 17: Israeli tourism minister Rehavam Zeevi is assassinated by the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine.
• December 22: Richard Reid, attempting to destroy American Airlines Flight 63, is subdued by passengers and flight attendants before he could detonate his shoe bomb.

As I said, which one of these attacks was a result of US actions? Which ones were in retaliation for the USA invading Iraq?

Please stop this silly, untruthful statement that terrorism is caused by something the USA did. Islamic terrorism pre-dates the USA by almost 1600 years, and has nothing to do with anything the USA has ever done.

Elliot

[s_cianci]

Considering the fact that I'm paying close to $3 for a gallon of gas, which is more than I ever paid in my life, I seriously doubt that it's "all about oil." When I see gas prices go below $1 per gallon again, like they were 10 years ago, then I might believe it's all about oil.