[ProfessorR]

This institution is accredited by an institution that is excepted by the majority of the 50 states.

Excepted?

Maybe in your case you did find some value, so congrats. But to try and pass it off as the "best" or even "adequate" to the general population in any category is misleading or outright false. Unfortunately, your stories are contradicted by all published reports about Kennedy-Western "University" from independent 3rd parties. Google KWU for 10 minutes and it's obvious.

But that is the past. Hopefully Warren National University is truly shedding the old KW"U" stigma and will be able to offer recognized programs in the near future.

[RedDogTech]

Well, again, this is not for the "general public." It's for people like me who can't sit in class for hours at a time. I have to do my studying late at night, after everyone else has gone to sleep. I then get up an go to work at 5 am, get home at 6 pm, and do it all over again. As I stated earlier; if there is nothing stopping one from attending a traditional school, that would be the way to go. However, if you can't, WNU, in my opinion, offers the best instruction I have found. The fact is, the PhD's that "teach" are, mostly, currently employed at these "brick & mortar" universities. I couldn't find that with any of the others I researched.

[RedDogTech]

I spent some time, today, looking at all of the links that have been provided in this thread. I then did some Googling to get more info about the fraud accusations being listed here, and other places.

So far, I have only found:

In the GAO report:

"Information we obtained from two unaccredited schools confirms that the federal government has paid for degrees at those schools. We asked four such schools that charge a flat fee for degrees to provide records of federal payments for student fees: California Coast University (Santa Ana, California); Hamilton University (Evanston, Wyoming); Pacific Western University (Los Angeles, California); and Kennedy-Western University (Thousand Oaks, California)."

KWU is not being accused of being a "diploma mill." It is pointed out here, and in all of the other links I have visited, that KWU is non-accredited. I can't find, anywhere, where KWU ever stated that they were accredited. There's a big difference between non-accredited and diploma mill.

I work with many people who hold degrees from "accredited" schools. Unfortunately, even without a degree, I make much more that they do on an annual basis. Furthermore, most state universities won't except credits from other accredited universities if they're not of the same caliber. How do I know this? My sister attended one LA (accredited) university for a period. When she married, her husband was attending LSU. She transferred her credits to attend LSU. Less than half of the credits transferred. After about 2 semesters, she transferred back and finished at the original U.

"Diploma mill" was defined on the web sites I reviewed as (paraphrase) an institution that offers degrees but are not accredited or licensed by any state or regional entity (end paraphrase). KWU is licensed. You may dispute this all you want; however, if they were a true mill, they would have been shut down during the law suits that ensued with Oregon.

I have to agree with some of the proponents for this case; I have had to work my butt off to get where I am. If this were a true "mill," I would have finished 2.5 years ago. I still have 1 class and the project to complete. This hasn't been any cake walk. When I have approached colleagues (with accredited degrees) with questions, they have been overly impressed with the amount of work that has been required.

I have also found large amounts of info insinuation that UofP is a degree mill. So, how many "accredited" programs are "the real deal," and how many are "mills?"

There are many forums out there that build up and tear down most on-line programs. The problem is that you really can never be sure with this type of environment. You have to choose the best for your situation. For me, KWU fit the best.

[ProfessorR]

Here are few things to Google. The GAO calls them a "sophisticated diplomamill"

"the schools we investigated take pains to try to convince prospective students that they are legitimate and that student have to earn their degrees. That is why a healthy dose of credit for work and life experience becomes such a critical component of their business model. That is what permits these more sophisticated diploma mills to assume an air of legitimacy while minimizing the actual amount of work required."

Our investigation has revealed that there seem to be two kinds of diploma mills. One is simply a printing press.

Others, such as Columbia State University, Kennedy Western and some of the others we have looked at, are more sophisticated. They require a modicum of work, but nothing close to what should be required for a legitimate degree.”

And then various articles to Google that discuss Kennedy-Western

“Federal Employees Have Obtained Degrees from Diploma Mills and Other Unaccredited Schools, Some at Government Expense."

"Diploma Mills are Easily Created and Some Have Issued Bogus Degrees to Federal Employees at Government Expense."

"Bogus Degrees and Unmet Expectations: Are Taxpayer Dollars Subsidizing Diploma Mills?"

"It May Take Hours, But You Too Can Earn a University Degree"

"When Elected Officials Aren't What They Seem
Texas officials and Pennsylvania cats tout misleading credentials"

"Real officials, bogus degrees, Fake degrees a growing Texas problem"
Tuesday, October 23, 2007

"P.S.: Your M.A. or Ph.D. may be B.S."
By RON MATUS, Times Staff Writer
Published December 6, 2007

[Hayden49]

Wow... honesty is indeed rare

[Hayden49]

Thou doth protest too much. Why not go to a Medical Doctor with a non accredited degree... prove your point. Use an attorney similarly qualified...

[Hayden49]

Excellent response

[madlermeow]

If a school has been accredited in the past, and the student attended while accredited, a regionally-accredited school can accept the credits without danger of losing their own accreditation.

It is my job to look up the accreditation of various schools, and I cannot find where this school has ever been accredited, so it would be unacceptable for credit, UNLESS the accepting school has a formal agreement with them. Otherwise, the accredited school runs the risk of losing their status. This school has also been known as a "degree mill."

If you feel you earned your degree from this school, more power to you. Just a heads up that a lot of places might not accept it. You did not waste time or money if you feel you got something out of it, even if the degree may or may not be recognized by other businesses or institutions.

[eludedgreysky]

AllyJo wrote
... I am a graduate from Kennedy-Western University, and I recently graduated with my MBA from a very reputable regionally accredited university which, by the way, accepted KWUs credits."

Can you or anyone tell me what University will accept a degree from WNU? I am looking to pursue my MBA and after reading everyone's posts, I really want to know who will accept my credits.

AllyJO-- you said you were accepted to 5 accredited schools. You don't have to tell me where you went, but can you tell me the other schools you applied to that did accept your KW-WNU credits.

I would really appreciate it.
Thanks:cool:

[ProfessorR]

For the record. Warren National "University" was rejected for accreditation January 2009, and is being forced to close down by the State of Wyoming as of 3-31-2009.

[djar1000]

I am sick of people criticizing Warren National/Kennedy Western University. Especially people with very little experience or understanding of the real issues. I completed their DBA program. I have four degrees from accredited schools like the University of OK, Savannah State University, etc. and attended Kent State University, University of Cincinnati, Charles Sturt University, Georgia Tech. A good student is a good student. The University of Phoenix and Walden University chase students as much as Warren National ever did. How long will it take people to understand that this is a matter of money. Do you think it really costs the University of Phoenix $40,000 for an on line DBA? 20 years ago, most brick and mortar schools laughed at on line education. Now 60% of all the brick and mortar schools in the US have them. It is a financial necessity. You can't fill the classes in a college or university with enough people to pay all the bills. They have to have on line education. Now they say it is OK. Today they crucify Warren National. What will happen tomorrow?

I am not saying that Warren National was perfect. They have disappointed even me in many ways but there were bright spots. There were hard working people, good students, and bad, and people were being educated. What I am saying is that it wouldn't surprise me if there were more politics behind this thing than truth. One interesting point. A DBA program in the UK is almost entirely based on the dissertation. In the US it is different. You may be asked, depending on the school, to do everything from take modern dance to submit a blood sample, then, finally a dissertation. Do we think any less of a foreign doctorate? We need to look at content in a program and avoid the political, perceptual bull . We, as a population, have been duped, controlled, mass marketed to and lied to for hundreds of years. Lets ask a question or two. Lets read between the lines. One final thing. The US Government and the Department of Education, what their opinion really means. Lets see. This is the same government that has brought you bail outs, Vietnam, Iraq, and maybe a hell of a lot more. I am sure they are right this time.

[Mwg0735]

Harold never did answer the question on if he had any degree. I'm not surprised. I went to Kennedy Western to complete the last few classes on my BSME. It was complete except for 5 classes. KWU was the hardest University I ever attended as you had to do the work with no instructor and still pass a tough exam. The lack of instructor made it even harder. Yes - I knew that they were working on accreditation but I was sure they would get it.

[DavidH]

In common with other writers, I’m tired of hearing negative commentary regarding KWU/WNU, and would also add the controversy over the perceived benefits of accreditation. I have a BSc(Aerospace) plus post-graduate technical courses from University of London, UK, when this qualification was considered extremely difficult to obtain; to make it even more demanding, it was done at a remote location, a local College – progenitor of distance learning, maybe. I selected KWU to pursue a doctorate, because it was the only school offering this in an Engineering Management course, there was some flexibility allowed in the timing, and the texts were well chosen and highly appropriate. I had no interest in any school that did not consider appropriate experience as a contributing qualification, as this is an essence of life vitally important to industry, though too often considered unnecessary by parochially shortsighted academicians. The true meaning of ‘Doctor’ is ‘Teacher’: how is it possible to teach effectively, if one has no recognized experience of being part of the workforce? WNU has provided a wealth of experience among faculty, who, I have found to be very solicitous, helpful, knowledgeable and considerate.

As ‘bigdman’ points out, the KWU/WNU program is tough and demanding – it took me four years to complete, as I set myself the task of reading all of the texts that WNU suggested, compiling a substantial library of books and papers in the process. Nothing worthwhile is easy, and this course most certainly was not. The distance learning system places many more demands on Students compared to those attending conventional centers of learning, with ready access to libraries and faculty.
AllyJo also makes many sound observations, including what I have found in 50 years of experience – that all manner of fancy degrees from established seats of learning are not worth a damn when you need to have work done. My contemporaries agree that conventional degrees are little more than memory tests; when it comes to the crunch, the ability to apply knowledge in application via experience is what counts, and those who excel are they who can innovate through the vehicle of tacit knowledge.

A WNU course embodies the learning experience the way it should be, as all with industrial experience will confirm: that is, it’s not as important to know the technology, as it is to know where to access the information and know how to apply it [exams can’t assess this capability, as, in industry, organizational databases and equipment are needed and effective work is done mostly by teams].

The posting detractors speak for themselves, as noted. Bad grammar and syntax, along with atrocious spelling and punctuation peppering their infantile maunderings would be instantly unacceptable in a WNU exam, paper, thesis or dissertation (which all require APA formatting): ‘Harold P’ is a classic example of such profound ignorance and tunnel vision.

‘Professor R’ interjects comments also initially devoid of proper writing standards, and is observed notable for concealing his or her identity – a good thing, as academics are supposed to be in the business of preparing people to go out into the professional world, and this character obviously has absolutely no idea of what qualities are desired in employees by managers such as myself. As a former Department Manager for R&D in major Aerospace, I have managed engineers for many years and created precedent for effective (improved) methodology and protocols in the area. Many, but not all of the engineering staff in my Department were degreed. Personnel involved with my current consulting business have been selected entirely for their ability to innovate, regardless of academic qualification. In the 80’s and 90’s I had to form Teams and Virtual Enterprises to perform difficult tasks involving radical innovation, and since forming the business, in 1999, I am heavily reliant on professionals selected mainly for tacit knowledge gained via experience. Initially, I had selected personnel with degrees from accredited Universities, but encountered one who seemed barely able to read and write, and another, holding an engineering degree from a prominent University who could not spell many common engineering terms and had no apparent knowledge of calculus. Also a PhD, who had written the usual barely intelligible dissertation on a technical subject so abstruse, that, at most, a mere handful of people could make any use of it. I quickly reconfigured, concentrating on proven performance oriented to what I needed, and found that staff who held degrees from the then newly born on-line schools were frequently better and more competent employees than those educated traditionally. Competence of staff was no different between accredited and unaccredited institutions, but in the important areas of self-starting and performance under pressure, the unaccredited schools’ graduates had a distinct advantage, which I attributed to their greater self-sufficiency.

In summary, as a long-time successful technologist, professional engineering manager, business owner, consultant and teacher, what I value in an employee is someone who has used education to improve his or her performance contribution via knowing how to access and apply knowledge. I don’t care where they graduated from, as long as they have obviously made the effort to learn from their courses and fellow employees, are effective working in diverse teams, and constantly seek to improve their performance. I profoundly thank KWU/WNU for an excellent and rewarding education experience, and the opportunity/forum they provided, to greatly facilitate research, plus expand and explain my innovative management principles under their expert eyes. Their demise is not only unfortunate, as they provided a relatively inexpensive means of acquiring knowledge, but has been based on a totally erroneous conception of what society and technology desperately needs in the way of education.

David StJ Hodder, 53 years in aerospace high technology, retired from the Boeing Company, owner of Rivendell42 Associates consulting business, and proud to be PhD/DBA from WNU.

[ProfessorR]

For the record. Warren National "University" was rejected for accreditation January 2009, and is being forced to close down by the State of Wyoming as of 3-31-2009.

Not quite done yet. Besides the faux-"doctors" still in circulation, there is still the pending class action suit by former students against the "university" to be resolved. The Cheyenne Herald has a link to the complaint:

http://www.cheyenneherald.com/_pdf/2...%20et%20al.pdf

Just a sample:

49. The Defendants except Defendant Travelers did not inform the students that:
a. Defendant WNU offered no classroom instruction.
b. The learning experience was not identical to one that a student would
receive at a traditional accredited school or university with classroom
instruction.
c. Despite requests from Plaintiffs to communicate with instructors for
questions or one-on-one learning, no such instruction was provided.
d. All exams were multiple choice and several of the questions had no
possible correct answer.
e. Students could take the same test a second time, after they learned the correct answers from the first test.
f. The exams were shams; there was no exam integrity.
g. Defendant WNU's program consisted of reading a book and taking an
exam.
h. Defendant WNU's program was nothing more than self teaching.
I. Defendant WNU was not accredited.
j. Accreditation is important because without it the degree is of little or no value.
k. A WNU degree is not accepted in business and industry.

[snookered]

Unfortunate that you did not read the entire back side of your enrollment contract before you signed and returned it. It is VERY clear about their accreditation status, as well as extension fees and that the degree was NOT EVER intended to be used for teaching purposes.