[margog85]

inthebox

Just wanted to say I don't have time to respond to you tonight--- some of the points you raised I already addressed- others I will get to either tomorrow or Friday when I get back on here.

Have a good night!

[JoeCanada76]

Men have penises,
Women have Vaginas.
1 + 1 = 2
Penises fit into vaginas.
Male and Female organs are for reproduction.
Male and Male has no purpose.
Female and Female has no purpose.
Survival of the fittest. There is no survival with homosexuality and that is why it is unnatural.

Penises and Vaginas fits together like a GLOVE.

EDIT:::::::

Marriage is an institution that was created for a man and a women to come together and create children together and create a family. Marriage has always been about a man and women coming together. Marriage is about becoming one and literally joining together as one. That can not be done with homosexuals.

[Synnen]

See the problem here with communication is that religion EQUALS morals for some people.

I would hazard a guess that the 10 Commandments are the top ten rules in EVERY RELIGION in the world. Or close to it. So... they're common sense rules, to me. Don't hurt other people. Take a day to rest here and there. Honor your ancestors and elders, and make time for your god. Sounds like a pretty balanced life there, and it's not even solely a Christian idea!

I really believe that morality, in general, is common sense. If it doesn't hurt anyone else, and I like to do it--well, why shouldn't I? It's not hurting anyone!

The question it keeps coming back to, for me, is what or who exactly is homosexuality hurting? Really, truly hurting? I'm not talking about it turning you off, or making you feel ill or whatever--who is it HURTING?

Similar argument with gay marriage--who is it HURTING? If you tell me that it ruins the sanctity and the idea of marriage for heterosexuals, I'm going to laugh at you. Heterosexuals NOT getting married and living together, or having children out of wedlock, and the HUGE divorce rate did more to ruin the "sanctity" of marriage than anything the gays could do.

And again--if sex organs are ONLY for procreation, and not pleasure--well, I really hope you are trying for kids on a regular basis.

[inthebox]

inthebox

just wanted to say I don't have time to respond to you tonight--- some of the points you raised I already addressed- others I will get to either tomorrow or Friday when I get back on here.

Have a good night!

You too, got to catch the end of "So you think you can dance" ;)

[JoeCanada76]

Practise makes perfect. Having pleasure while trying to create.

[Credendovidis]

See the problem here with communication is that religion EQUALS morals for some people.

Yes, for some people it seem to be that way. But has that claim any validity for people outside that group?
The problem with all these religious views is that their (possible) validity is based on unsupported wild claims, and that those who think that way seem to assume that these views are valid also for all of those of other pursuation.

When people select morals for themselves... fine with me !
But what morality is there in trying to enforce unsupported religious claims unto others?

Nobody is forcing or trying to force those "some persons" into homosexual practices.
So why are these "some persons" such noseyparkers who insist to interfere with other people's lives and freedoms ?

If only these "some persons" were "without sin"... Specially as it is them who long ago already started throwing stones...

:rolleyes:

[Moparbyfar]

So basically, Margog, you're trying to figure out what makes religious people tick without their religion?

Well, speaking for myself as a dedicated Christian, it's a way of life for me since our grand creator set out guidelines for us all through His Word and hopes that we follow them. If not, then that's our choice and we reap the consequences. If I put my beliefs aside I put the Almighty aside and choose to go it alone. Who or what gets hurt if I accept homosexuals etc? GOD. Just like you would be hurt if you repeatedly told your child not to do something and they turned around and did it anyway. Many don't feel that such a being exists, and that is their choice, but MY choice is to dedicate my whole life as in thoughts, actions and words to trying to please God.

Sorry, but I see it as impossible to give you an answer to your question without seeing it from God's point of view.

To me it's about lust and is unhealthy.

If we should accept this kind of behaviour, why then does society as a whole not accept fathers marrying daughters or mothers marrying sons? I mean, some have been known to fall madly in love. Must they be denied these feelings?

[Credendovidis]

... it's a way of life for me since our grand creator set out guidelines for us all thru His Word ...

"For us all"? ----> As this implies that your religious views and the consequences of these views in this wording does not only involve yourself, but includes every human being now , it becomes time to demand from you objective supported evidence for :

- the existence of "god/gods".
- the supposed supranatural powers of that "god/gods".
- the claim that the bible is the word of (one of these) "gods".

If all you can do is believe in your religious claims, no problem, no problem at all !
But than do not try to shift your religious beliefs unrequested onto others. Without that requested evidence your words as quoted are just empty religious claims, and are for others than yourself without any value or consequence.

Note that JC is claimed to have asked every Christian to "Go forth and spread the word"
JC never was claimed to have asked to "Go forth and force the christian word upon every human being".

Your religious claims have no hold for other people. They are no guidelines "for us all". They are guidelines for all christians. Many years of inquisition tried to do the same, but failed.

And I note that even christian people seem unable to keep to these guidelines, so why you don't start with yourself and your own and to start displaying how people should live, and show others the way by example?

Your "grand creator" did not set out guidelines "for us all" through His Word. That is what you BELIEVE ...


:rolleyes:

[Synnen]

Practise makes perfect. Having pleasure while trying to create.

Then you ONLY have sex when you're trying to create, right? No birth control, EVER. No oral sex that leads to culmination. Absolutely no anal sex.

Marriage is two people in love sharing a life together. I don't care what the gender of those two people are. Let GOD sort that out, if that's your thing--Are YOU God, to determine what's right and what isn't? And again--IF the Bible says that homosexuality IS wrong--the Bible also says that birth control is wrong, and incest is okay (Lot and his daughters), and St. Paul has a TON of stuff in there about how women should be subjugated and never equal to men.

At one point, the Bible was used to justify slavery--the story of Noah getting drunk and one of his sons laughing at him. Amazing how THAT has changed, though.

[Tuscany]

See the problem here with communication is that religion EQUALS morals for some people.

I would hazard a guess that the 10 Commandments are the top ten rules in EVERY RELIGION in the world. Or close to it. So....they're common sense rules, to me. Don't hurt other people. Take a day to rest here and there. Honor your ancestors and elders, and make time for your god. Sounds like a pretty balanced life there, and it's not even solely a Christian idea!

I really believe that morality, in general, is common sense. If it doesn't hurt anyone else, and I like to do it--well, why shouldn't I? It's not hurting anyone! .

Well said Syn. If its not hurting anyone why do we care?

The question it keeps coming back to, for me, is what or who exactly is homosexuality hurting? Really, truly hurting? I'm not talking about it turning you off, or making you feel ill or whatever--who is it HURTING?

Similar argument with gay marriage--who is it HURTING? If you tell me that it ruins the sanctity and the idea of marriage for heterosexuals, i'm going to laugh at you. Heterosexuals NOT getting married and living together, or having children out of wedlock, and the HUGE divorce rate did more to ruin the "sanctity" of marriage than anything the gays could do. .

I believe that those that hide behind the "sanctity" of marriage are grossly uninformed. There is so much more to a marriage then sex and like Syn said heterosexuals are doing an outstanding job ruining that sanctity all alone. Honestly, how can we condem if 2 people who love each other and want to build a life together? My aunt is a gay woman with a wonderful girlfriend. They attend church every week, give to that church every week, and yet they cannot be married in that church. THAT KILLS ME! The church says hey your money is good enough for us, but you are not. I hate that... it leaves a sour taste in my mouth every time I think about it.

And again--if sex organs are ONLY for procreation, and not pleasure--well, I really hope ya'll are trying for kids on a regular basis.

Right on Syn! Finally a voice of reason! Perfect ending to a wonderful post.

I would also like to add that the bible is a piece of literary work open to interpretation. How you interpret the bible might not be how I interpret the bible. Often when I sit in church and the Father is giving his homily I think- wow I did not get that out of what the gospel says... I got this. Does that make his interpretation wrong? No... Does it make mine wrong? No. But we need to learn all coexist and get along. Gay or straight we are all human... why all the hate...

Also, to all of you in a heterosexual marriage... can you imagine if your wife/husband was critically hurt and you were told that you could not see them or make decisions on their health. Could you imagine being powerless as the one you love lay in a hospital bed? Homosexuals are looking for equal rights... just like African Americans did in the 60's. Everyone deserves to be treated equally... no I know that it does not happen, but that is what people deserve.

[poppysue]

"Love is an emotional rollercoaster and when we fall in love with someone it does not matter where they came from or what they are." Gays/Lesbians are people who just happen to love one another the same as hetrosexuals do.
AND IT HAS CERTAINLY NOTHING TO DO WITH ANIMALS - OR HAS IT? YES That's RIGHT WE AS HUMANS ARE ANIMALS TOO.

[Tuscany]

"Love is an emotional rollercoaster and when we fall in love with someone it does not matter where they came from or what they are." Gays/Lesbians are people who just happen to love one another the same as hetrosexuals do..

Well said Poppysue... why do we care who or how other people love? We should just be happy that people are finding others to love. It's a long lonely world without the love of another person.

[margog85]

I know I said I would respond today, but my time is limited at the moment- I will try to add more later, but a lot of what I wanted to say has already been said by others.

I just want to interject one thought at this point- homosexuality is not about LUST anymore than heterosexuality is about LUST. Heterosexuals tend to focus on the act of sex because that is what makes them most uncomfortable about homosexuality. But the 'homosexual lifestyle' is really not much different from the 'heterosexual lifestyle', aside from who we choose to share our lives with. My partner and I are not constantly having sex, and sex is not the focal point of our relationship. When I see a straight couple together, I don't automatically think of their sex life, and it frustrates me to no end to know that when I am seen with my partner that is often where the thoughts of other people immediately go.

Just something I wanted to put out there for now...

[sassyT]

I don't care whether or not the CHURCH recognizes those unions as valid, but I do care that the state recognize them and here's why: There are rights and privileges that are associated with heterosexual marriages--such as inheritance laws, child custody, medical information/care, visitation for incarcerated people, etc. I basically feel that if ALL people can't have those rights/privileges, then NONE of us should have them just from "getting married".

By all means, let's give the lawyers more work by making it impossible for marriage to bestow those rights and privileges and make EVERYONE have to have legal documents that cover EACH of the situations that right now are covered simply by getting married.

Its not about the Church or religion or morals. Its just about drawing the line on what the state should accept as a valid union. Man and woman is a normal and valid union. Man and man or Man and dog/animal is not normal and the state should not be forced to validate abnormal marriage unions in the name of "fairness".

[Synnen]

Again--why is man and man NOT normal? I mean, how many gay people are there, really, who would like to have validation for their love?

And again--man and animal isn't even in the same class---it's like oranges and boxes, for pete's sake!--because the animal CAN NOT GIVE CONSENT.

Until 40 years ago or so, blacks and whites marrying was considered abnormal. Until a couple hundred years ago, marrying outside of your religion was abnormal. Until a couple thousand years ago (or so) marrying only ONE woman was considered abnormal. Until the last couple centuries or so, marrying for LOVE was abnormal--you married who your parents told you to marry, because it would be an advantageous match in some way.

So--are you equating being gay with marrying for love? I mean, if one was abnormal by cultural standards, and the other IS abnormal by cultural standards... isn't that what you're saying?

[Tuscany]

Its not about the Church or religion or morals. Its just about drawing the line on what the state should accept as a valid union. Man and woman is a normal and valid union. Man and man or Man and dog/animal is not normal and the state should not be forced to validate abnormal marriage unions in the name of "fairness".

What you view as normal is not necessarily what others view as normal. I see love between two humans as normal... man to woman, woman to man, man to man, or woman to woman. Love is love.


I hate to quote myself, but I am...this is from a previous post on this thread.

I would also like to add that the bible is a piece of literary work open to interpretation. How you interpret the bible might not be how I interpret the bible. Often when I sit in church and the Father is giving his homily I think- wow I did not get that out of what the gospel says... I got this. Does that make his interpretation wrong? No... Does it make mine wrong? No. But we need to learn all coexist and get along. Gay or straight we are all human... why all the hate...

Also, to all of you in a heterosexual marriage... can you imagine if your wife/husband was critically hurt and you were told that you could not see them or make decisions on their health. Could you imagine being powerless as the one you love lay in a hospital bed? Homosexuals are looking for equal rights... just like African Americans did in the 60's. Everyone deserves to be treated equally... no I know that it does not happen, but that is what people deserve.

[excon]

Its not about the Church or religion or morals. Its just about drawing the line on what the state should accept as a valid union.

Hello sassy:

If it's NOT about those things, then the state must grant equal access to any contract that bestows RIGHTS upon people. Those RIGHTS are available to ANYBODY. That's how our wonderful system works, and THAT'S where they should draw the line - when EVERYBODY shares the same rights.

excon

[Synnen]

Hello sassy:

If it's NOT about those things, then the state must grant equal access to any contract that bestows RIGHTS upon people. Those RIGHTS are available to ANYBODY. That's how our wonderful system works, and THAT'S where they should draw the line - when EVERYBODY shares the same rights.

excon

Excon, honey... if I could buy you a beer, I so would.

[sassyT]

[QUOTE]

What you view as normal is not necessarily what others view as normal. I see love between two humans as normal... man to woman, woman to man, man to man, or woman to woman. Love is love.

Yeah but someone else will see love between a man and a dog/animal as normal but does that mean the state should also recognise it?
What people see as normal can be subjective, but the State should have an Objective unwavering standard of what the definition of marriage has always been one MAN and one WOMAN.

I hate to quote myself, but I am...this is from a previous post on this thread.

I would also like to add that the bible is a piece of literary work open to interpretation. How you interpret the bible might not be how I interpret the bible. Often when I sit in church and the Father is giving his homily I think- wow I did not get that out of what the gospel says... I got this. Does that make his interpretation wrong? No... Does it make mine wrong? No. But we need to learn all coexist and get along. Gay or straight we are all human... why all the hate...

All of the obove is your opinion on the Bible not facts, but like I said before this has nothing to do with the Bible religion morals, it is just about the state having standards of what is normal.

Also, to all of you in a heterosexual marriage... can you imagine if your wife/husband was critically hurt and you were told that you could not see them or make decisions on their health. Could you imagine being powerless as the one you love lay in a hospital bed? Homosexuals are looking for equal rights... just like African Americans did in the 60's. Everyone deserves to be treated equally... no I know that it does not happen, but that is what people deserve

I don't know why people like to compare being gay and being African American, the two are mutually exlusive and can not be comparable. Race and Sexual orientation are not the same thing.

[Tuscany]

[QUOTE=sassyT]

Yeah but someone else will see love between a man and a dog/animal as normal but does that mean the state should also recognise it?
What people see as normal can be subjective, but the State should have an Objective unwavering standard of what the definition of marriage has always been one MAN and one WOMAN.
.

I am amazed that you can compare the love between 2 humans and love between a human and an animal.
[QUOTE=sassyT]

All of the obove is your opinion on the Bible not facts, but like I said before this has nothing to do with the Bible religion morals, it is just about the state having standards of what is normal. .

You are wrong on this. Those that oppose gay marriage often point to the bible (a piece of literary work) and moral decay.

Standards of normal... wow there is no such thing. What's normal in the North East is not "normal" in the south. How can you have standards for normal when normal is so subjective?

[QUOTE=sassyT]

I don't know why people like to compare being gay and being African American, the two are mutually exlusive and can not be comparable. Race and Sexual orientation are not the same thing.

I am sorry but aren't you the one that compared sex between two humans and sex between an animal and a human. I am comparing 2 minorities of humans who have been oppressed.