[speechlesstx]

Nice deflection of the asked question.

Learned it from you. I'll answer yours if you answer mine.

[talaniman]

This serial killer was aided and abetted by someone who got paid to look the other way and I think his clients were looking for a late term abortion.

Maybe you don't remember the days when people knew people who would be willing to break the law and put females at risk. That was before Roe V Wade. Abortion didn't start in America in the 70's. Its been a practice for centuries all over the world. The women just never told the men what they knew or did with their knowledge.

Like I say, well to do females have ways that the poor ones don't, and always will. You have heard me say many times that education and resources reduces abortions and that's a good thing.

Solve poverty, you solve the need for PP.

[speechlesstx]

We can't solve poverty by keeping people dependent on government handouts.

[Wondergirl]

We can't solve poverty by keeping people dependent on government handouts.

So how do you solve it?

[talaniman]

They wouldn't need handouts with a living wage and fairness in the way finances are circulated, that was completely eroded by the global banks and corporation. How can we ignore that in the face of a global melt down that made so many dependent in the first place?

Its so hard to explain what a person goes through that has lost everything they have built for 10,15, 20 years and tries to start over. What does it say when TWO Walmart workers have to have a hand out?

Notice I said circulated, not redistributed. Your idea of a hand out is another families helping hand. Millions of people didn't just quit their jobs for a handout. They got laid off for long periods, or they got laid off permanently. Worse the job market is tight, and some employers don't even hire unemployed people or low skilled workers.

But they scream they need trained people from overseas to fill their openings. There are many things at play that makes people dependent on government. Cheap labor means poverty my friend, and wages are stagnant. Has been for a long time. Retraining is necessary, expensive, and time consuming, and you still have to pay the rent and lights.

Or be dependent on mom and dad if you have one that's got loot.

[tomder55]

Solve poverty, you solve the need for PP

Uhh no... do you think only poor women wack their babies ? Do you think only the uneducated have unprotected sex ? There is no way you could pin 50 million executions of babies on poor and uneducated . There is also no way you could convince me that over a million babies were being wacked annually when the procedure was illegal . Yes there were abortions before 1973... But it is undeniable that there has been a proliferation of them since it became legal to kill a baby .

[Wondergirl]

Yes there were abortions before 1973 ... But it is undeniable that there has been a proliferation of them since it became legal to kill a baby .

There are also more women hanging about since 1973. So what's the solution? I'm still stuck on the parents teaching their children (both boys and girls) to respect their bodies and not have kids until they are emotionally and financially ready. Now, what are we going to do about TV and movie people and the "free sex" image they project? Even the prime-time sitcoms get into it and show sex as an everyday normal thing and just part of dating like holding hands. And we are still in that "instant gratification" mode -- if it feels good, do it.

[tomder55]

I can only do so much ;raise my own family and try to persuade others to see it my way. The pathway to adulthood is tough enough without insisting that our children pass through the fires of Molech. Our false idols are the things you describe... especially that "instant gratification" mode... or if I were to lump them into one false idol ,that would be the worship of self with the false sense of no consequences.

[paraclete]

...or if I were to lump them into one false idol ,that would be the worship of self with the false sense of no consequences.

OK Tom we can all identify the problem but we have to be part of the solution.

There is no doubt that public perception of morality has changed, obviously fueled by the, let's call them what they are, pornografic images sold to us by the licentious film makers.
But we have lost our discernment, we fail to reject these products.

[tomder55]

But we have lost our discernment, we fail to reject these products.

Indeed . You talk about solutions and the only one I can think of is a rejection of the humanism that has led society down the road to perdition.

[smoothy]

[Wondergirl]

image

Too bad there is no national registry for cars or that states don't cooperate in giving out information.

[smoothy]

Too bad there is no national registry for cars or that states don't cooperate in giving out information.

They don't have a registry of SOBER people. Or a national registry of sane people.

And the difference is your don't have a constitutional right to drive... you do have a constitutional right to own guns.

[paraclete]

Interesting argument

[Wondergirl]

They don't have a registry of SOBER people. Or a national registry of sane people.

Gun owners are all sober and sane?

[paraclete]

Gun owners are all sober and sane?

So are car drivers so that means all car drivers are gun owners. The logical conclusion therefore is if you have a drivers licence you can own a gun because you are already on the register

It seems poiticians are looking for solutions that don't anger the gun lobby they should be more concerned about angering the electorate

[tomder55]

it seems poiticians are looking for solutions that don't anger the gun lobby they should be more concerned about angering the electorate

There is no national clamor for gun legislation. The fact that the Emperor has to go across the nation campaigning for it shows that it is not on the top of the national agenda. Trumped up polls that show approval of back round checks paint an incomplete portrait of the landscape . Instead of demonizing a lobby group ,of which a false claim is made that it is driving the pro-gun side ;everyone should consider why exactly the NRA has such influence. The answer is that the populace favors their efforts to support 2nd amendment rights.
Newton, as Wondergirl argues , is an example of the breakdown of family and core values of what made this country great and exemplifies the lack of acceptance of personal responsibility and a of moral compass. No gun legislation is going to fix that .

[Tuttyd]

indeed . You talk about solutions and the only one I can think of is a rejection of the humanism that has led society down the road to perdition.

That's a good idea.

Reject the product of there Enlightenment in favour of what? Ideology. Your society and my society is an ongoing product of the humanist experiment.

[tomder55]

Perhaps ;but the enlightenment thinkers had a solid moral foundation . You cannot honestly dismiss the role of Christianity in the formation of the United States society ;and I suspect yours. When I speak of humanism ,I am speaking of the late 20th century construct ;which is heavy on relativism .

[Tuttyd]

perhaps ;but the enlightenment thinkers had a solid moral foundation . You cannot honestly dismiss the role of Christianity in the formation of the United States society ;and I suspect yours. When I speak of humanism ,I am speaking of the late 20th century construct ;which is heavy on relativism .

Well, I guess they did.But I think you are going to have problems arguing that the various moral theory that derived from the Enlightenment were not "solid" The scientific possibilities that arose from the Enlightenment was a rejection of the "solid" element of morality. That was the whole idea.

I am not rejecting Christianity when it comes morality. What I am rejecting is the politicising of individual morality that is based on tradition, religion and other absolutist arguments.

My society had as its basis many different founding traditions including Christianity. The most dominant founding tradition was the belief that we were a working class nation. I would like to think that this tradition is still strong in the Australian psyche.

When you speak of humanism of course you are speaking of "relativism". When talking about the Enlightenment and the scientific possibilities... You expect to be talking about something else?